The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[ozleicester]

out of interest....what was it that pushed them all over the top?.... why now?

[Trumpet]

49 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I'm not going to slate him without reason but I can't help but feel like a lot of the support for Ukraine was more to do with his obsession to be remembered as some sort of Churcill wartime style hero. Probably why he's banged on about it so much in his speech and yesterday.

Which is why I think he’s clung on as much as he has. I imagine in his head he thinks his work as this Churchill style hero isn’t complete and he had it all planned out in his head so he had to carry on.

[The Horse's Mouth]

Price of the brick going up

[LCFCCHRIS]

21 minutes ago, Diffco said:

Any UK government would've supported Ukraine. Literally any. The fact he parroted it for months on end as a means of political leverage has clearly worked on yourself innit. Remember he's disingenuous as it is as he potentially allowed himself to be a national security threat, to Ukraine's aggressor, in 2018. Thems are the breaks 

Any may have supported, but would they have had the quick and Europe leading response that we had? I doubt it. Be it a Churchill / war obsession or not, I'm glad he's done it. 

 

Innit?

[The Horse's Mouth]

I speak for everyone that the election has been stolen from us, it's time to march on Whitehall to restore our democracy back!

[Dunge]

24 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

out of interest....what was it that pushed them all over the top?.... why now?

Depends what exactly you mean.

The whole Chris Pincher thing was the straw that broke the camel’s back, it seems.  But then last night when he sacked Gove and called him a snake, that for me was terminal. Although he’s unpopular with the public, Gove’s basically been the competent go-to guy for a lot of MPs, the adult in the building if you like, so as soon as he was removed they decided enough was enough.

[Fox92]

Has the clown finally resigned

[Basildon Fox]

Makes me chuckle that all the anti-Conservative, anti-Boris whooping on here will mean absolutely nothing when the next election comes round.

 

Starmer will not commit to trying to get back into the EU as he knows that the Labour stronghold of the North will not vote for him if he does, yet the champagne socialists of the South will not vote for him if he does not commit.

 

You can all bookmark this now to come back at me if I am wrong but it will not matter who becomes the next conservative leader, they will win the next election because of the above.  Too much of a fractured nation on Brexit, especially the North/South divide.

Edited 7 July 2022 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Dames]

My favourite sub genre of tweets on this is those that fully believe that it was a 'remainer' and 'msm' plot to oust Boris. Completely unhinged.

 

Anyone that uses the word MSM seriously drinks their own piss i'm sure of it.

Edited 7 July 2022 by Dames

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Starmer will not commit to trying to get back into the EU as he knows that the Labour stronghold of the North will not vote for him if he does, yet the champagne socialists of the South will not vote for him if he does not commit.

 

I'm sorry but this is a really poor take. 

 

No Labour leader for years is going to try and get elected on taking us back in to the EU it would be electoral suicide. 

 

The smart move is to swerve it and try and win back Brexiteer votes from white working class areas that Labour has thrown away. 

 

 

Your "champagne socialists" (rolleyes.gif) are going to vote Labour regardless. The people Starmer would appeal to by standing on taking us back in to the EU are amongst his most reliable base anyway. They're not who he needs to appeal to and I say that as one of them. 

[Captain...]

2 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Makes me chuckle that all the anti-Conservative, anti-Boris whooping on here will mean absolutely nothing when the next election comes round.

 

Starmer will not commit to trying to get back into the EU as he knows that the Labour stronghold of the North will not vote for him if he does, yet the champagne socialists of the South will not vote for him if he does not commit.

 

You can all bookmark this now to come back at me if I am wrong but it will not matter who becomes the next conservative leader, they will win the next election because of the above.  Too much of a fractured nation on Brexit, especially the North/South divide.

A smart Labour leader would declare that they aim to fix the damage done with the EU by this incompetent government but without rejoining the EU being an option. They and can easily resolve a lot of the chaos by agreeing trade terms that are closer aligned to the EU. This will resolve a lot of issues and the justification, if anyone is not happy, is that they are cleaning up after bozo and crew. If a new labour government can get us back into the EU free market on a Norway/Switzerland type deal that would satisfy a lot of people who have lived through this shower. Even at the cost of having freedom of movement, we can all see that we need that influx of migrants to do unskilled jobs.

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

I'm sorry but this is a really poor take. 

 

No Labour leader for years is going to try and get elected on taking us back in to the EU it would be electoral suicide. 

 

The smart move is to swerve it and try and win back Brexiteer votes from white working class areas that Labour has thrown away. 

 

 

Your "champagne socialists" (rolleyes.gif) are going to vote Labour regardless. The people Starmer would appeal to by standing on taking us back in to the EU are amongst his most reliable base anyway. They're not who he needs to appeal to and I say that as one of them. 

We will see... I work in London and I know most Labour supporters will throw their allegiance behind anyone who wants to go back into the EU, whether it is Labour, Greens, or whoever.  This will split the vote come election time.

[Bellend Sebastian]

7 minutes ago, Dames said:

My favourite sub genre of tweets on this is those that fully believe that it was a 'remainer' and 'msm' plot to oust Boris. Completely unhinged.

 

Anyone that uses the word MSM seriously drinks their own piss i'm sure of it.

What I really want to see is a Boris equivalent of the Trump fan boy art, where he's really ripped and riding a tiger or something, or being hugged by Jesus

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

We will see... I work in London and I know most Labour supporters will throw their allegiance behind anyone who wants to go back into the EU, whether it is Labour, Greens, or whoever.  This will split the vote come election time.

If I might ask...why would it do that when rejoining the EU isn't mentioned in the Labour manifesto at all (if it isn't)? The FBPE folks aren't going to abstain or vote green because it's patently obvious what happens if they do and I don't think there's as many that will make a stand on "principle" as one might think.

[Fazzer 7]

4 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Makes me chuckle that all the anti-Conservative, anti-Boris whooping on here will mean absolutely nothing when the next election comes round.

 

Starmer will not commit to trying to get back into the EU as he knows that the Labour stronghold of the North will not vote for him if he does, yet the champagne socialists of the South will not vote for him if he does not commit.

 

You can all bookmark this now to come back at me if I am wrong but it will not matter who becomes the next conservative leader, they will win the next election because of the above.  Too much of a fractured nation on Brexit, especially the North/South divide.

Yep. The best labour could hope for would be some cobbled together coalition. They won’t win an overall majority.  Even now after all the shenanigans over the past months they only have a modest lead in the polls. And that is as good as it will get for them. If any party is going to make inroads it’ll more likely be the Lib Dems. 

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, Captain... said:

A smart Labour leader would declare that they aim to fix the damage done with the EU by this incompetent government but without rejoining the EU being an option. They and can easily resolve a lot of the chaos by agreeing trade terms that are closer aligned to the EU. This will resolve a lot of issues and the justification, if anyone is not happy, is that they are cleaning up after bozo and crew. If a new labour government can get us back into the EU free market on a Norway/Switzerland type deal that would satisfy a lot of people who have lived through this shower. Even at the cost of having freedom of movement, we can all see that we need that influx of migrants to do unskilled jobs.

There are, especially in London, a lot of people who want to back in the EU.  They will not consider anything else.  It will split the vote no matter what.

 

Just to add that I as a Conservative voter never wanted to be out of the EU and would love to be able to go back in.  The EU needs major reforms but we can not have any influence to change if we are not part.  My job has been directly affected by Brexit.  Yes our domestic sales are higher than ever, but our EU sales have slowed to little more than a trickle.

[Dunge]

Finnegan’s right though when he says that Labour don’t need those votes. In general those people can vote Green and Labour will still win those seats. They need the Brexit-voters from the marginals.

[Sampson]

15 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm sorry but this is a really poor take. 

 

No Labour leader for years is going to try and get elected on taking us back in to the EU it would be electoral suicide. 

 

The smart move is to swerve it and try and win back Brexiteer votes from white working class areas that Labour has thrown away. 

 

 

Your "champagne socialists" (rolleyes.gif) are going to vote Labour regardless. The people Starmer would appeal to by standing on taking us back in to the EU are amongst his most reliable base anyway. They're not who he needs to appeal to and I say that as one of them. 

I’m also not convinced Labour should be concentrating on winning back the red wall anyway, but rather going after the blue wall seats in the Home Counties.

 

If you look at elections over the last 20 years, you can see Tories were making in inroads in the red wall regardless of Brexit and Labour have been making in roads regardless of Brexit anyway.

 

The Home Counties are growing more ethnically diverse, with more 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants and with more university educated people - groups which virtually never vote Tory. And were all largely Remain voters. In comparison with the Red Wall, which mostly consists of an older population of people who’s ancestry in the UK goes back longer than 3 generations at least and were far more Leave voting.

 

I think the Red Wall has gone. Plenty of them have said they will never vote Labour again.

 

It makes far more sense for me for Labour to go after the Blue Wall, which has been gradually going Red anyway as the cultural boundaries of London expand and who’s long-term demographic is changing far more towards stereotypical Labour voters to me.

 

I’m convinced the Tories know this too and know that they’re losing the Blue Wall and so constantly talk about the Red Wall as a kind of trap and to divert electoral focus.

Edited 7 July 2022 by Sampson

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

There are, especially in London, a lot of people who want to back in the EU.  They will not consider anything else.  It will split the vote no matter what.

 

Just to add that I as a Conservative voter never wanted to be out of the EU and would love to be able to go back in.  The EU needs major reforms but we can not have any influence to change if we are not part.  My job has been directly affected by Brexit.  Yes our domestic sales are higher than ever, but our EU sales have slowed to little more than a trickle.

I am staunch remainer and would vote to rejoin if the vote would ever be held again. But I'm not going to insist on it, we are so far down the rabbit hole that it is not even going to be a genuine possibility for years. Anything that brings us closer to Europe and whilst simultaneously improving the trade chaos, Northern Ireland issue and stops Moggy taking us back to the 18th century would be more than enough progress to get my vote. I don't think there are as many militant remainers as there are leave at all cost types.

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

I’m also not convinced Labour should be concentrating on winning back the red wall anyway, but rather going after the blue wall seats in the Home Counties.

 

If you look at elections over the last 20 years, you can see Tories were making in inroads in the red wall regardless of Brexit and Labour have been making in roads regardless of Brexit anyway.

 

The Home Counties are growing more ethnically diverse, with more 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants and with more university educated people - groups which virtually never vote Tory. And were all largely Remain voters. In comparison with the Red Wall, which mostly consists of an older population of people who’s ancestry in the UK goes back longer than 3 generations at least and were far more Leave voting.

 

I think the Red Wall has gone. Plenty of them have said they will never vote Labour again.

 

It makes far more sense for me for Labour to go after the Blue Wall, which has been gradually going Red anyway and who’s long-term demographic is changing far more towards stereotypical Labour voters to me.

 

I’m convinced the Tories know this too and know that they’re losing the Blue Wall and so constantly talk about the Red Wall as a kind of trap and to divert electoral focus.

If Wakefield is anything to go by the red wall will gravitate back to Labour. Corbyn was the issue not Labour as a collective party, now Johnson is the issue and the whole Tory party is tainted. Starmer is a steady Eddie he's not going to upset too many people and that might be all it needs.

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, leicsmac said:

If I might ask...why would it do that when rejoining the EU isn't mentioned in the Labour manifesto at all (if it isn't)? The FBPE folks aren't going to abstain or vote green because it's patently obvious what happens if they do and I don't think there's as many that will make a stand on "principle" as one might think.

Because there are people adamant that (quite rightly imo) the Country were hoodwinked into voting for Brexit.  While I agree to a certain extent, the obvious arrogance of the remain campaigners who thought that staying in the EU would be a formality was the death knell for the UK in the EU.  It was too easy for the go campaigners to run what could be considered an anti-foreigner campaign which ultimately won the referendum for them.

 

I can promise you now there will be a flock of Labour voters who will vote for another party if they announce they will attempt to re-join the EU.  This is exactly what happened at the last election in the North where a number of traditional Labour voters actually voted for Boris.

[Finnegan]

15 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

We will see... I work in London and I know most Labour supporters will throw their allegiance behind anyone who wants to go back into the EU, whether it is Labour, Greens, or whoever.  This will split the vote come election time.

 

I guarantee you 99% of them are just bluster and bravado. 

 

If they're in contested seats they'll vote Labour when they actually get in that booth. 

 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Because there are people adamant that (quite rightly imo) the Country were hoodwinked into voting for Brexit.  While I agree to a certain extent, the obvious arrogance of the remain campaigners who thought that staying in the EU would be a formality was the death knell for the UK in the EU.  It was too easy for the go campaigners to run what could be considered an anti-foreigner campaign which ultimately won the referendum for them.

 

I can promise you now there will be a flock of Labour voters who will vote for another party if they announce they will attempt to re-join the EU.  This is exactly what happened at the last election in the North where a number of traditional Labour voters actually voted for Boris.

I'm unconvinced. The country, many people, and the world itself, have changed in those three years.

 

I guess we'll find out either way, but I don't see where the conviction in this argument comes from. Not when in those three years the Tories have presided over...well... gestures wildly.

[RoboFox]

I've said it before, but Boris Johnson's most enduring legacy will be how he and his regime managed to at the same time get the working classes of this country to turn on each other, and convince them that the source of their problems was not years of Tory austerity, but somehow Europe. 

 

And he did it all not because he actually believed any of it, but because he knew if he pulled it off he would get the top job...

 

And look what he did with it. 

What a fvcking waste. 

[Dames]

22 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

If I might ask...why would it do that when rejoining the EU isn't mentioned in the Labour manifesto at all (if it isn't)? The FBPE folks aren't going to abstain or vote green because it's patently obvious what happens if they do and I don't think there's as many that will make a stand on "principle" as one might think.

They will abstain on principle. They are as bad as the brexiteers and just as unhinged. 

 

Its either their way or no way and unfortunately no way turns out to be more of the same.