The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Basildon Fox]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I guarantee you 99% of them are just bluster and bravado. 

 

If they're in contested seats they'll vote Labour when they actually get in that booth. 

 

But that is not what happened in the last election.  If there is even a sniff of us re-joining under Labour, they will not vote for them in the North.

 

If the Greens commit to re-joining then there will be a sea of Southern Labour votes.  It will massively split the Labour vote.

Edited 7 July 2022 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Daggers]

11 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Because there are people adamant that (quite rightly imo) the Country were hoodwinked into voting for Brexit.  While I agree to a certain extent, the obvious arrogance of the remain campaigners who thought that staying in the EU would be a formality was the death knell for the UK in the EU.  It was too easy for the go campaigners to run what could be considered an anti-foreigner campaign which ultimately won the referendum for them.

 

I can promise you now there will be a flock of Labour voters who will vote for another party if they announce they will attempt to re-join the EU.  This is exactly what happened at the last election in the North where a number of traditional Labour voters actually voted for Boris.

If you seriously think people who will be struggling to pay their bills, meet the mortgage and feed their kids are going to give a flying toss about your Brexit then you’re going to be in for a bit of a shock. 
 

People will remember how parties were held as their loved ones died, they’ll recall the lies and wasted £billions, they’ll note how they can’t get to see a doctor or have an operation, they’ll notice their taxes have gone up despite Tory claims otherwise, and they’ll see the prices in the shops and on the forecourt. 
 

There is nothing this Tory government has touched that it hasn’t wrecked. 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Dames said:

They will abstain on principle. They are as bad as the brexiteers and just as unhinged. 

 

Its either their way or no way and unfortunately no way turns out to be more of the same.

As per above, were this October 2019 I would agree with you.

 

But things have changed since then. Still unconvinced.

 

3 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

But that is not what happened in the last election.  If there is even a sniff of us re-joining under Labour, they will not vote for them.

As above.

 

Still, who knows? I'd like the opportunity to find out either way, though - the sooner the current government are out on their arses the better.

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

If the Greens commit to re-joining then there will be a sea of Southern Labour votes.  It will massively split the Labour vote.

 

No, there won't. 

 

There'll be a small ripple of protest votes maybe but none of your LoNdOn InTeLlEcTuAlS will believe either that the Greens could ever get in or that a few protest votes would somehow force the government to go "oh right yeah we were wrong all this time, lets rejoin the EU because Putney said so."

 

Honestly, if you think Starmer distancing himself from EU reconciliation is a bad election ploy then you're in a pretty small minority. 

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

No, there won't. 

 

There'll be a small ripple of protest votes maybe but none of your LoNdOn InTeLlEcTuAlS will believe either that the Greens could ever get in or that a few protest votes would somehow force the government to go "oh right yeah we were wrong all this time, lets rejoin the EU because Putney said so."

 

Honestly, if you think Starmer distancing himself from EU reconciliation is a bad election ploy then you're in a pretty small minority. 

We will see...

[Voll Blau]

The FBPE Twitter types weren't clever enough (i.e. nowhere near as clever as they think they are) to hold their noses and vote tactically in 2019, when it really mattered.

 

It's a different world now they've seen the damage that has been wrought since then. Starmer's Labour might not perfectly align with their views now, but I'd be amazed if the daft twee shites aren't prepared to vote for him next time out if they think it'll finally get rid of the Tories.

[Fazzer 7]

3 minutes ago, Daggers said:

If you seriously think people who will be struggling to pay their bills, meet the mortgage and feed their kids are going to give a flying toss about your Brexit then you’re going to be in for a bit of a shock. 
 

People will remember how parties were held as their loved ones died, they’ll recall the lies and wasted £billions, they’ll note how they can’t get to see a doctor or have an operation, they’ll notice their taxes have gone up despite Tory claims otherwise, and they’ll see the prices in the shops and on the forecourt. 
 

There is nothing this Tory government has touched that it hasn’t wrecked. 

I accept your point about the NO10 parties. That was clearly unacceptable to anyone. Brexit was decided by a referendum not government. But all the rest is a result of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. If you believe labour would have handled the situation any better then I simply think you’re wrong. Or maybe you tell me how they’d have done it. Other than locking down longer and harder and spending even more billions I respectfully suggest we’d still be in more or less the same place as we currently are. 

[Foxdiamond]

Crazy that BBC correspondent stopping interviews to shout at ministers as they arrive at no 10. She knows they won't

comment. 

[Sampson]

3 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

The FBPE Twitter types weren't clever enough (i.e. nowhere near as clever as they think they are) to hold their noses and vote tactically in 2019, when it really mattered.

 

It's a different world now they've seen the damage that has been wrought since then. Starmer's Labour might not perfectly align with their views now, but I'd be amazed if the daft twee shites aren't prepared to vote for him next time out if they think it'll finally get rid of the Tories.

It depends on your constituency though, ultimately.

 

I’m just voting whoever is most likely to beat Tories in my constituency from Labour, LibDems and Greens. It’s kind of pointless looking at their manifestos in a way, no point voting for a party that won’t win your constituency.
 

It’s sad that our broken democratic system which was designed when it took days or weeks for people to get from the far ends of Scotland or Ireland to London on horseback, makes us do this. But it’s ultimately what we have to do to have any say or anything.

[foxes1988]

3 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I accept your point about the NO10 parties. That was clearly unacceptable to anyone. Brexit was decided by a referendum not government. But all the rest is a result of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. If you believe labour would have handled the situation any better then I simply think you’re wrong. Or maybe you tell me how they’d have done it. Other than locking down longer and harder and spending even more billions I respectfully suggest we’d still be in more or less the same place as we currently are. 

And the Paterson scandal and the government corruption becoming even more prevalent in the last couple of years giving out contracts to their mates.  Not to mention the 12 years of poor economic growth coupled with austerity surpressed wage rises compounding the the inflation problem and creating the cost of living crisis

[Wymsey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-62081426

Edited 7 July 2022 by Wymsey

[Sampson]

7 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I accept your point about the NO10 parties. That was clearly unacceptable to anyone. Brexit was decided by a referendum not government. But all the rest is a result of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. If you believe labour would have handled the situation any better then I simply think you’re wrong. Or maybe you tell me how they’d have done it. Other than locking down longer and harder and spending even more billions I respectfully suggest we’d still be in more or less the same place as we currently are. 

The problems caused by Brexit weren’t decided by referendum. The decision to leave the EU was decided by a referendum.
 

The decision to , say, become just about the first country in history to stick a permanent border within its own borders (even Germany had its split largely forced on it by the US, UK and USSR) is a conscious choice of the Conservative party. 
 

I very much doubt anyone voting for Brexit wanted a customs border in the Irish Sea. That was a conscious choice by the Tories, nothing to do with the referendum.

Edited 7 July 2022 by Sampson

[Basildon Fox]

Just now, Daggers said:

If you seriously think people who will be struggling to pay their bills, meet the mortgage and feed their kids are going to give a flying toss about your Brexit then you’re going to be in for a bit of a shock. 
 

People will remember how parties were held as their loved ones died, they’ll recall the lies and wasted £billions, they’ll note how they can’t get to see a doctor or have an operation, they’ll notice their taxes have gone up despite Tory claims otherwise, and they’ll see the prices in the shops and on the forecourt. 
 

There is nothing this Tory government has touched that it hasn’t wrecked. 

I think people underestimate the vitriol behind Brexit on both sides. 

 

I am not saying it is right, but the average Joe in this country will pretty much believe everything they are told.  Especially when it fits their agenda.  Being right often becomes more important than anything else. It can and will cloud judgements.

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I accept your point about the NO10 parties. That was clearly unacceptable to anyone. Brexit was decided by a referendum not government. But all the rest is a result of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. If you believe labour would have handled the situation any better then I simply think you’re wrong. Or maybe you tell me how they’d have done it. Other than locking down longer and harder and spending even more billions I respectfully suggest we’d still be in more or less the same place as we currently are. 

Brexit was decided by the government simply because they knew that offering a vote on it, and additionally tempting the maybes with lies about putting money into the nhs, the British public, being the British public, would vote for it. Only the government stood to gain anything from it because they're the ones that make the laws "we're free to set our own laws!" (we'll i'm not and neither is anyone else)  The only difference to the person on the street is that it's more hassle to travel through europe.

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Brexit was decided by the government simply because they knew that offering a vote on it, and additionally tempting the maybes with lies about putting money into the nhs, the British public, being the British public, would vote for it. Only the government stood to gain anything from it because they're the ones that make the laws "we're free to set our own laws!" (we'll i'm not and neither is anyone else)  The only difference to the person on the street is that it's more hassle to travel through europe.

You do know the then government campaigned for Remain?  Jesus Christ.

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I accept your point about the NO10 parties. That was clearly unacceptable to anyone. Brexit was decided by a referendum not government. But all the rest is a result of the pandemic and the war in Ukraine. If you believe labour would have handled the situation any better then I simply think you’re wrong. Or maybe you tell me how they’d have done it. Other than locking down longer and harder and spending even more billions I respectfully suggest we’d still be in more or less the same place as we currently are. 

I'm thinking that perhaps another government might have had a shot at not having a death toll per capita from Covid worse than the vast majority of OECD countries due to their mishandling o the virus at the start and throughout, with the notable exception of giving AstraZeneca a good run to save lives with their vaccine.

[Foxdiamond]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm thinking that perhaps another government might have had a shot at not having a death toll per capita from Covid worse than the vast majority of OECD countries due to their mishandling o the virus at the start and throughout, with the notable exception of giving AstraZeneca a good run to save lives with their vaccine.

Without wanting to rake over old coals surely the government lockdown about 2 weeks too late. Even football shut down before

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

Without wanting to rake over old coals surely the government lockdown about 2 weeks too late. Even football shut down before

Right.

 

That might also have been exacerbated by the voices in government (and in the wider world) that thought lockdown wasn't necessary at all and that Darwin's rules should apply. Which of course is an outstanding sentiment if you overlook the corpses.

[yorkie1999]

26 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

You do know the then government campaigned for Remain?  Jesus Christ.

That's how you con a nation.

[Fazzer 7]

The runners and riders for next PM. 

[Basildon Fox]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

That's how you con a nation.

This, right here, is exactly what I was talking about.

 

Edited 7 July 2022 by Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Bellend Sebastian]

I'm furious about the "clinging on just so the wedding he's hosting at Chequers can go ahead' story.

 

After all he's done for us the least we could do is let him have a nice time with his friends in a big tax payer funded house 

[urban.spaceman]

Thinking of starting a petition to get every single person in the UK to be sent a piece of Carrie's wallpaper as a memento of our time together.

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Thinking of starting a petition to get every single person in the UK to be sent a piece of Carrie's wallpaper as a memento of our time together.

It's covered in spunk, I don't want it

[The Horse's Mouth]