The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[bovril]

21 hours ago, Sampson said:

England really does ruin the UK. Dunno why the Scots, N. Irish and Weslh still want to be in this union. If I were them I'd form a Celtic Union with Ireland instead, much more progressive and less depressing than England these days.

I am not that attached to the union and understand why some Scots want to leave. But there are parts of Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland that are extremely conservative, not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Equally most English cities and university towns are extremely progressive compared to much of Europe. 

[LiberalFox]

3 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Keir now being investigated by Durham Police for potential breaches of lockdown regs ! 

I don't know why the police are wasting their resources on this. 

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I don't know why the police are wasting their resources on this. 

Same reason the police investigated Downing Street, too much external pressure. Whether it’s a different outcome or not will be interesting. If he is found to have broken the rules, it certainly changes things a bit.

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Same reason the police investigated Downing Street, too much external pressure. Whether it’s a different outcome or not will be interesting. If he is found to have broken the rules, it certainly changes things a bit.

I still think he’ll be found to be within the rules, from the official story it seems like everything was within the rules at that time period (reduced lockdown). Saying that it’ll be completely subjective which means this will drag and the police will be accused of being politically motivated. 
 

If he’s found guilty then he’ll have to resign imo. 

[LiberalFox]

33 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I still think he’ll be found to be within the rules, from the official story it seems like everything was within the rules at that time period (reduced lockdown). Saying that it’ll be completely subjective which means this will drag and the police will be accused of being politically motivated. 
 

If he’s found guilty then he’ll have to resign imo. 

It depends what actually happened. Sure if he's found to have been having a secret rave. If it's more like Abbot's mojito on the underground then no.

[Bellend Sebastian]

53 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I still think he’ll be found to be within the rules, from the official story it seems like everything was within the rules at that time period (reduced lockdown). Saying that it’ll be completely subjective which means this will drag and the police will be accused of being politically motivated. 
 

If he’s found guilty then he’ll have to resign imo. 

I think he probably would if he is.

 

It's would be a terrible look for the former Director of Public Prosecutions but for the same reason I'm struggling to believe he'd have been careless enough to break the rules.

 

Imagine if he did though! It wouldn't exactly help Johnson would it? Look, they're as bad as us, and oh dear he's resigned like I should've

Edited 6 May 2022 by Bellend Sebastian

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Same reason the police investigated Downing Street, too much external pressure. Whether it’s a different outcome or not will be interesting. If he is found to have broken the rules, it certainly changes things a bit.

Isn't the difference that this was already investigated and external pressure has lead them to reinvestigate, despite no wrong doing being found last time. Where as the external pressure re downing Street was because he wasn't being investigated and didn't look like it was ever going to be.

[LiberalFox]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Isn't the difference that this was already investigated and external pressure has lead them to reinvestigate, despite no wrong doing being found last time. Where as the external pressure re downing Street was because he wasn't being investigated and didn't look like it was ever going to be.

The point is the police should act independently and according to an overall strategy. Neither incident should have involved the police.

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

The point is the police should act independently and according to an overall strategy. Neither incident should have involved the police.

Of course they should if there's suspicion of law breaking. They shouldn't be pressured politically to either investigate or not, but they definitely should investigate if someone alleges a law is broken.

[Parafox]

13 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

The point is the police should act independently and according to an overall strategy. Neither incident should have involved the police.

Why not when the police were investigating public "parties" involving students and private households?

[LiberalFox]

1 minute ago, Parafox said:

Why not when the police were investigating public "parties" involving students and private households?

If they were aware during the time then investigating them would have made sense. I don't know if Durham differs but the Met had a policy of using policing to enforce the lockdown, not to chase potential historic breaches. It's just common sense. 

 

If you are going to investigate any lockdown breach years after the event then you encourage all sorts of curtain twitching, snooping and police desks will fill up with reports from busybodies hoping to get someone they don't like in trouble. 

[Parafox]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

If they were aware during the time then investigating them would have made sense. I don't know if Durham differs but the Met had a policy of using policing to enforce the lockdown, not to chase potential historic breaches. It's just common sense. 

 

If you are going to investigate any lockdown breach years after the event then you encourage all sorts of curtain twitching, snooping and police desks will fill up with reports from busybodies hoping to get someone they don't like in trouble. 

Sorry. But isn't the recent investigation of the Downing St party by the Met exactly "chasing an historic breach" as the "party" occurred during lockdown?

[LiberalFox]

Just now, Parafox said:

Sorry. But isn't the recent investigation of the Downing St party by the Met exactly "chasing an historic breach" as the "party" occurred during lockdown?

It is, which goes against their own policy hence why I said neither incident should have been investigated.

[Parafox]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

It is, which goes against their own policy hence why I said neither incident should have been investigated.

Ah, got you. 

[kenny]

46 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Isn't the difference that this was already investigated and external pressure has lead them to reinvestigate, despite no wrong doing being found last time. Where as the external pressure re downing Street was because he wasn't being investigated and didn't look like it was ever going to be.

Since it was investigated, Starmer has redefined what is considered a party until partygate was investigated. A party is now drinking alcohol while wearing a party hat in the workplace and hosting a zoom quiz. It's also singing happy birthday in an office in the presence of an uneaten birthday cake.

 

Unfortunately, he has defined a precedent whereby he has attended a party. He was polically profiteering and it has backfired. He has messed up as a politician, but should be commended as a public prosecutor.

 

His only defence appears to be I only did it once. So far, Boris and Rishi have only been fined once, so I assume they only broke the latest interpretation of the rules once.

 

 

 

 

[Sampson]

Sinn Fein are going to become the largest party in Northern Ireland for the first time ever.

 

For anyone over the age of 30 it’s hard to dissociate certain ideas of pre-GFA Sinn Fein with the current party.

 

But this could be huge news for the future of the union.

[LiberalFox]

3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Sinn Fein are going to become the largest party in Northern Ireland for the first time ever.

 

For anyone over the age of 30 it’s hard to dissociate certain ideas of pre-GFA Sinn Fein with the current party.

 

But this could be huge news for the future of the union.

I think it says more about the state of other republican parties. 

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Sinn Fein are going to become the largest party in Northern Ireland for the first time ever.

 

For anyone over the age of 30 it’s hard to dissociate certain ideas of pre-GFA Sinn Fein with the current party.

 

But this could be huge news for the future of the union.

Wasn’t this inevitable given the variation in birth rate across the traditional support on ‘both  sides’ 

 

could be its occurred earlier than expected though ….

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, LiberalFox said:

I think it says more about the state of other republican parties. 

The fact a Republican party is the #1 party though dor the first time ever is pretty huge news regardless.

[kenny]

1 minute ago, LiberalFox said:

I think it says more about the state of other republican parties. 

The dup seem quite complacent and a bit too 'unmodern' in their views to properly represent a modern unionist voter.

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Wasn’t this inevitable given the variation in birth rate across the traditional support on ‘both  sides’ 

 

could be its occurred earlier than expected though ….

Fair. Same with Scottish independence in a way too. It's the young pushing it. Hard to see how Scottish independence and Irish unification won't win out eventually.

[Facecloth]

16 minutes ago, kenny said:

Since it was investigated, Starmer has redefined what is considered a party until partygate was investigated. A party is now drinking alcohol while wearing a party hat in the workplace and hosting a zoom quiz. It's also singing happy birthday in an office in the presence of an uneaten birthday cake.

 

Unfortunately, he has defined a precedent whereby he has attended a party. He was polically profiteering and it has backfired. He has messed up as a politician, but should be commended as a public prosecutor.

 

His only defence appears to be I only did it once. So far, Boris and Rishi have only been fined once, so I assume they only broke the latest interpretation of the rules once.

 

 

 

 

He hasn't really though has he. 

 

Starmer was out working on the campaign, him and his colleagues went back to the campaign office and order food and drink. Simple as that.

 

Johnson and his colleagues on numerous occasions arranged get togethers in number 10, involving people going out to bring back large quantities of alcohol. His neighbour, his decorator, his wife were all there when they had no business being there for working purposes. Invites were sent out for many of these events.

 

One is people quite obviously getting some sustenance after work, the latter is clearly people organising a get together for fun.

[bovril]

10 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Sinn Fein are going to become the largest party in Northern Ireland for the first time ever.

 

For anyone over the age of 30 it’s hard to dissociate certain ideas of pre-GFA Sinn Fein with the current party.

 

But this could be huge news for the future of the union.

I don't think it means much in terms of the future of the union

[kenny]

Just now, Facecloth said:

He hasn't really though has he. 

 

Starmer was out working on the campaign, him and his colleagues went back to the campaign office and order food and drink. Simple as that.

 

Johnson and his colleagues on numerous occasions arranged get togethers in number 10, involving people going out to bring back large quantities of alcohol. His neighbour, his decorator, his wife were all there when they had no business being there for working purposes. Invites were sent out for many of these events.

 

One is people quite obviously getting some sustenance after work, the latter is clearly people organising a get together for fun.

Mixing up the alcohol parties and the birthday gathering that Johnson was actually fined for is the stuff of channel 4. I'm sure you are more nuanced than that?

 

Also, Starmer has called for Johnson's resignation for every photo with a glass of wine in it. However, being labour and working hard on campaign is a reasonable excuse, working hard on a response to an unprecedented worldwide pandemic is not.

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, kenny said:

Mixing up the alcohol parties and the birthday gathering that Johnson was actually fined for is the stuff of channel 4. I'm sure you are more nuanced than that?

 

Also, Starmer has called for Johnson's resignation for every photo with a glass of wine in it. However, being labour and working hard on campaign is a reasonable excuse, working hard on a response to an unprecedented worldwide pandemic is not.

Not mixing anything up, just mentioning things that happened at the numerous parties in number 10 being investigated.

 

The campaign team were away from home, working on the road, which was allowed, they had to eat, they did so back at the campaign office. Had Number 10 ordered curries in for all the workers to eat in the office, I wouldn't have a problem, it's the getting together collectively to hang out and have fun that's the problem. If these people wanted to chill after work they could have gone home like we all did. Starmer and Co didn't have that option as they were on the road working away.