Popular Post LiberalFox Posted 6 May 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 6 May 2022 Johnson and his ilk come from a breed of people who are groomed at a young age to think they are innately superior to anyone else and who revel in breaking social boundaries. Whether it's burning money in front of homeless people or making racist jokes or smuggling case loads of booze during the height of a lockdown. It's the level of contempt they hold for ordinary people and the unwritten social contract that makes me despise them. The lockdown breaches were systemic and barely concealed, almost as though the thrill of breaking the rules was addictive. The police have spent a lot of resources combing over things and translating that into a smattering of fixed penalty notices which in my opinion wasn't a good use of police time. It was never about the severity of criminal offending. Starmer on the other hand earned his status through meritocratic achievement. That's not to say he didn't have some privilege but he has also worked hard and earnestly. If it turns out he was fragrantly acting in an irresponsible manner then that would rightly be a damaging revelation. However, there's no evidence I've seen that suggests that is the case. Merely an attempt to smear him with unnecessary and overzealous policing. I don't want the man to resign because PC Plod decides to issue a fine for having a takeaway in a hotel while out campaigning. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 15 minutes ago, bovril said: I don't think it means much in terms of the future of the union Agreed. Part of the power sharing deal is that this sort of thing isn't important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 8 minutes ago, LiberalFox said: Johnson and his ilk come from a breed of people who are groomed at a young age to think they are innately superior to anyone else and who revel in breaking social boundaries. Whether it's burning money in front of homeless people or making racist jokes or smuggling case loads of booze during the height of a lockdown. It's the level of contempt they hold for ordinary people and the unwritten social contract that makes me despise them. The lockdown breaches were systemic and barely concealed, almost as though the thrill of breaking the rules was addictive. The police have spent a lot of resources combing over things and translating that into a smattering of fixed penalty notices which in my opinion wasn't a good use of police time. It was never about the severity of criminal offending. Starmer on the other hand earned his status through meritocratic achievement. That's not to say he didn't have some privilege but he has also worked hard and earnestly. If it turns out he was fragrantly acting in an irresponsible manner then that would rightly be a damaging revelation. However, there's no evidence I've seen that suggests that is the case. Merely an attempt to smear him with unnecessary and overzealous policing. I don't want the man to resign because PC Plod decides to issue a fine for having a takeaway in a hotel while out campaigning. Rather sensationalist, but many politicians have become career politicians. As far back as 2012, it was actually more common for Labour rather than Conservative MPs to never had ‘normal’ jobs. Although reading again it does appear to be a classist observation, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 15 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Not mixing anything up, just mentioning things that happened at the numerous parties in number 10 being investigated. The campaign team were away from home, working on the road, which was allowed, they had to eat, they did so back at the campaign office. Had Number 10 ordered curries in for all the workers to eat in the office, I wouldn't have a problem, it's the getting together collectively to hang out and have fun that's the problem. If these people wanted to chill after work they could have gone home like we all did. Starmer and Co didn't have that option as they were on the road working away. All against the rules. They had the opportunity to have separate meals on the road as we had to when working away. So I am pleased to say we managed to succeed where chief prosecutor Starmer was unable to do so in the eyes of labour voters. We did have cake (individually wrapped ones, not large cross containing ones) in the office during the pandemic. So I suppose as a business we failed in the eyes of labour voters. Tis a strange world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 8 minutes ago, kenny said: All against the rules. They had the opportunity to have separate meals on the road as we had to when working away. So I am pleased to say we managed to succeed where chief prosecutor Starmer was unable to do so in the eyes of labour voters. We did have cake (individually wrapped ones, not large cross containing ones) in the office during the pandemic. So I suppose as a business we failed in the eyes of labour voters. Tis a strange world we live in. People were working in number 10 during the pandemic, I accept these people had to eat and drink I have no issue with that. Starmer was working on an election campaign, the campaign office was like number 10 in that instance, they have to eat. All that is fine and not against the rules. What is is bringing people together for a social gathering as occurred on numerous occasions in number 10. It's not about cake. That's the difference. You got it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 1 minute ago, Facecloth said: People were working in number 10 during the pandemic, I accept these people had to eat and drink I have no issue with that. Starmer was working on an election campaign, the campaign office was like number 10 in that instance, they have to eat. All that is fine and not against the rules. What is is bringing people together for a social gathering as occurred on numerous occasions in number 10. It's not about cake. That's the difference. You got it now? Still struggling. Johnson and Sunak were fined for the cake in the briefing room. Not the drinking and DJ session in the basement which appeared to be the press office. If you are fine with muddling up these facts then we are on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 21 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: Rather sensationalist, but many politicians have become career politicians. As far back as 2012, it was actually more common for Labour rather than Conservative MPs to never had ‘normal’ jobs. Although reading again it does appear to be a classist observation, right? It's a "ruling class" issue yeah. The "career politician" stigma is not always helpful as it really depends what that career involved. Of course there are issues with accessibility to such a pathway. Note that I'm not saying anyone who ever attended an independent school is unfit to be an MP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 8 minutes ago, kenny said: Still struggling. Johnson and Sunak were fined for the cake in the briefing room. Not the drinking and DJ session in the basement which appeared to be the press office. If you are fine with muddling up these facts then we are on the same page. They were fined for attending a social event, stop focusing on a bloody cake. Where did I mention the booze and DJ in that last post? The birthday party was still a social get together with people who didn't work there attending too, that was purely for social purposes, not work or sustenance. Starmer has stated they were working and stopped to have the food before carrying on working. So one is a pause to eat whilst working, the other is a social gathering to celebrate a birthday. You see the difference, or is it still top difficult for you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Fresh Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 1 hour ago, kenny said: Mixing up the alcohol parties and the birthday gathering that Johnson was actually fined for is the stuff of channel 4. I'm sure you are more nuanced than that? Also, Starmer has called for Johnson's resignation for every photo with a glass of wine in it. However, being labour and working hard on campaign is a reasonable excuse, working hard on a response to an unprecedented worldwide pandemic is not. Definitely believed Cummings was testing his eyes didn't you? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 1 hour ago, Facecloth said: They were fined for attending a social event, stop focusing on a bloody cake. Where did I mention the booze and DJ in that last post? The birthday party was still a social get together with people who didn't work there attending too, that was purely for social purposes, not work or sustenance. Starmer has stated they were working and stopped to have the food before carrying on working. So one is a pause to eat whilst working, the other is a social gathering to celebrate a birthday. You see the difference, or is it still top difficult for you? It was at lunchtime with people that worked there? Johnson and sunak were fined for being at work drifting into something that the met decided broken the rules. There was a very distinct breaking of the rules at number 10 that involved suitcases of alcohol and a DJ. Yes the distinction is too difficult for me. I think it's likely that Starmer will be fined as it's clear that he did the same as Johnson and Sunak. He had the option of doing what other businesses did and chose to do what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 Honestly, Huw, I really don't see how back door action is going to help... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 6 minutes ago, kenny said: It was at lunchtime with people that worked there? Johnson and sunak were fined for being at work drifting into something that the met decided broken the rules. There was a very distinct breaking of the rules at number 10 that involved suitcases of alcohol and a DJ. Yes the distinction is too difficult for me. I think it's likely that Starmer will be fined as it's clear that he did the same as Johnson and Sunak. He had the option of doing what other businesses did and chose to do what he did. No he didn't. If you can't work that out then no wonder you still vote Tory. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVFox Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 I don’t really see how a working lunch is as bad as actual parties…I’ll be shocked if Durham police do him for it. To be honest I was shocked Boris was done for the birthday, think he will have a raft of fines by the end of all this. Terrible day for the Tories today, no matter how they try to spin it….shame that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 23 minutes ago, Facecloth said: No he didn't. If you can't work that out then no wonder you still vote Tory. I managed and Starmer is cleverer than me. He and his team could have eaten separately whilst working away. It was a bit annoying for those of us that did it, but it was very achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 6 minutes ago, LVocey said: I don’t really see how a working lunch is as bad as actual parties…I’ll be shocked if Durham police do him for it. To be honest I was shocked Boris was done for the birthday, think he will have a raft of fines by the end of all this. Terrible day for the Tories today, no matter how they try to spin it….shame that. Thing is there's a claim Sunak and Johnson walked in on this gathering, unaware of it happening. They then stayed for 10 minutes or maybe more. Johnson should have told people to leave immediately, he didn't and at that point walking in unaware is no longer an excuse as he's hung around. Try going home to this missis and explaining that you didn't know there was an orgy going on when you walked into the room, so by staying for 10 minutes and getting involved you did nothing wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 1 minute ago, kenny said: I managed and Starmer is cleverer than me. He and his team could have eaten separately whilst working away. It was a bit annoying for those of us that did it, but it was very achievable. As previously stated, I have no issue with the people in number 10 or on the campaign trail eating in the office, what I do have an issue with is social gatherings. Starmer did the first, which is fine, Johnson was involved in the latter, which is not. Well done you for eating separately, you followed the rules the man you voted for and who implemented them didn't think applied to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVFox Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 3 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Thing is there's a claim Sunak and Johnson walked in on this gathering, unaware of it happening. They then stayed for 10 minutes or maybe more. Johnson should have told people to leave immediately, he didn't and at that point walking in unaware is no longer an excuse as he's hung around. Try going home to this missis and explaining that you didn't know there was an orgy going on when you walked into the room, so by staying for 10 minutes and getting involved you did nothing wrong I kind of agree, but just thought that particular incident would slide by from any fines. Showed the bar was far lower than the general public probably thought it was. If I’d been at an orgy for 10 minutes my wife would probably know I did something wrong…twice! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 Just now, Facecloth said: As previously stated, I have no issue with the people in number 10 or on the campaign trail eating in the office, what I do have an issue with is social gatherings. Starmer did the first, which is fine, Johnson was involved in the latter, which is not. Well done you for eating separately, you followed the rules the man you voted for and who implemented them didn't think applied to him. All we know about BJ currently is that he has been fined for the birthday party that happened in work hours and lasted 10 minutes. We also know that there was parties in the basement that other people in number 10 were fined for. We know that there were drinks in the garden that doesn't appear to have been considered a breach by the police. There may be other incidents in number 10 that may come out that may back up your assertions but they may not. We also know that KS ate and drank in close proximity of others during lockdown which could have been avoided. It isn't any different to the birthday cake incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 8 minutes ago, kenny said: All we know about BJ currently is that he has been fined for the birthday party that happened in work hours and lasted 10 minutes. We also know that there was parties in the basement that other people in number 10 were fined for. We know that there were drinks in the garden that doesn't appear to have been considered a breach by the police. There may be other incidents in number 10 that may come out that may back up your assertions but they may not. We also know that KS ate and drank in close proximity of others during lockdown which could have been avoided. It isn't any different to the birthday cake incident. What other assertions? No wonder you haven't got a clue, you clearly don't have the ability to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 11 minutes ago, kenny said: All we know about BJ currently is that he has been fined for the birthday party that happened in work hours and lasted 10 minutes. We also know that there was parties in the basement that other people in number 10 were fined for. We know that there were drinks in the garden that doesn't appear to have been considered a breach by the police. There may be other incidents in number 10 that may come out that may back up your assertions but they may not. We also know that KS ate and drank in close proximity of others during lockdown which could have been avoided. It isn't any different to the birthday cake incident. We know he ate a curry in the office he was working in. That's all we actually know. It's very different to thr birthday cake thing. As I've already said. One was pausing whilst working to eat to give sustenance to fuel the body, the other was a social gathering for pleasure and should have been stopped immediately not enjoyed for 10 minutes. So yes very different. But I can see you won't change your mind, and I'm sure falling living standards, massive inflation, potential recession, rising national debt even pre covid, corruption, dodgy ppe contract, ****ed brexit etc won't stop you voting Tory either, there's no hope really is there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalis Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 (edited) Greater Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalists votes means people want those respective voices to be heard strongly with in the UK rather than each of those votes translating to wanting respective independence. Edited 6 May 2022 by Nalis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 If he is fined he is as bad as those in Downing Street, if he isn’t then he didn’t break the rules. My opinion is, and I said this when the Downing Street photos came out. If there is alcohol, it’s no longer work and if it is still work and people are drinking, that’s not really acceptable either. If I have a pint with my lunch at work, I would get dismissed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted 6 May 2022 Share Posted 6 May 2022 24 minutes ago, Facecloth said: We know he ate a curry in the office he was working in. That's all we actually know. It's very different to thr birthday cake thing. As I've already said. One was pausing whilst working to eat to give sustenance to fuel the body, the other was a social gathering for pleasure and should have been stopped immediately not enjoyed for 10 minutes. So yes very different. But I can see you won't change your mind, and I'm sure falling living standards, massive inflation, potential recession, rising national debt even pre covid, corruption, dodgy ppe contract, ****ed brexit etc won't stop you voting Tory either, there's no hope really is there. The birthday cake thing was in an office too during work hours. It's no different. I'm not sure who I will vote for next. I doubt it will be labour as it's in the grip of the unions and outside of reeves and ashworth, Im not keen on their front bench. The current set up are far from perfect but the alternatives are no better at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxinsocks Posted 7 May 2022 Share Posted 7 May 2022 Starmer will be fined. What was he thinking? What work were they doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 7 May 2022 Share Posted 7 May 2022 5 hours ago, kenny said: The birthday cake thing was in an office too during work hours. It's no different. I'm not sure who I will vote for next. I doubt it will be labour as it's in the grip of the unions and outside of reeves and ashworth, Im not keen on their front bench. The current set up are far from perfect but the alternatives are no better at the moment. It's not about it being during work hours , it's about it being a gathering of people for social purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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