The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Climate change yes but given how cheap package holidays are and how expensive British tourist resorts are I reckon the cost difference is negligible. Although I suppose the cheap packages only cover so many destinations.

Yeah I agree, it’s expensive here but I wasn’t talking solely about price. It’s the convenience. I imagine most of those going through Dover are driving. Large portion doing the euro camp set up etc. If it’s too much hassle likely they will end up at center parcs, butlins, Haven or similar next year.

 

A lot of vaccine dodgers already have.

 

I’m not trying to say this is something great but if as some are saying, the French authorities are playing games. It might bite when the holidaymakers find a new destination.

[kenny]

45 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Can’t see the relevance 

there are no issues with emigration checks out of the U.K. 

 

 

You have to have permission to enter the countries that the ship sails to. So you go through the full passport system to enter EU countries, it's no different to flying or getting the ferry into another country.

[kenny]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Yeah I agree, it’s expensive here but I wasn’t talking solely about price. It’s the convenience. I imagine most of those going through Dover are driving. Large portion doing the euro camp set up etc. If it’s too much hassle likely they will end up at center parcs, butlins, Haven or similar next year.

 

A lot of vaccine dodgers already have.

 

I’m not trying to say this is something great but if as some are saying, the French authorities are playing games. It might bite when the holidaymakers find a new destination.

Exactly. If the service isn't reliable people stop using it.

[Sampson]

18 minutes ago, kenny said:

You have to have permission to enter the countries that the ship sails to. So you go through the full passport system to enter EU countries, it's no different to flying or getting the ferry into another country.

But they aren’t done in the UK on cruise ships, so it any queues in the UK side won’t be caused by it.

 

The UK doesn’t  have exit checks anywhere. You don’t need to go through passport control to leave the UK.

 

UK and France have a specific agreement for Ferries and the Eurostar where the entry controls are reversed. So if you’re going to France on ferry or the Eurostar then you go through French entry controls on the UK side before you board and you go through UK entry controls on the French side before you board. (This isn’t the same flying to France for example where you go through French entry controls at the French airport like everywhere else).

 

All airport and other ferry crossings you go through passport control once you’ve landed/disembarked and are already in the country, so immigration controls won’t caused queues in the UK for those. Although it will cause extra queues at your destination.

 

 

Edited 24 July 2022 by Sampson

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, Sampson said:

But they aren’t done in the UK on cruise ships, so it any queues in the UK side won’t be caused by it.

 

The UK doesn’t  have exit checks anywhere. You don’t need to go through passport control to leave the UK.

 

UK and France have a specific agreement for Ferries and the Eurostar where the entry controls are reversed. So if you’re going to France on ferry or the Eurostar then you go through French entry controls on the UK side before you board and you go through UK entry controls on the French side before you board. (This isn’t the same flying to France for example where you go through French entry controls at the French airport like everywhere else).

 

All airport and other ferry crossings you go through passport control once you’ve landed/disembarked and are already in the country, so immigration controls won’t caused queues in the UK for those. Although it will cause extra queues at your destination.

 

 

You go through passport control on the UK that allows you entry to other countries as a result. 

 

It's the same process just handled by UK and ferry staff rather than the country of entry.

[Sampson]

6 minutes ago, kenny said:

You go through passport control on the UK that allows you entry to other countries as a result. 

 

It's the same process just handled by UK and ferry staff rather than the country of entry.

These aren’t immigration controls. They’re done by the ferry staff because if you’re denied entry to a country then they have to pay to get you back and so they do it to save money.

 

It’s the same reasons airlines themselves check covid certificates a lot more than actual immigration checks do.

 

RyanAir for example are notorious for stopping people boarding for all manner of alleged iffy reasons because they’re paranoid they’ll lose the price of a ticket.

 

It has nothing to do with Brexit or any other destination country though. That’s private airlines or ferry companies, it’s not the same as passenger ferries to France actually going through French immigration controls in the UK.

Edited 24 July 2022 by Sampson

[kenny]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

These aren’t immigration controls. They’re done by the ferry staff because if you’re denied entry to a country then they have to pay to get you back and so they do it to save money.

 

It’s the same reasons airlines themselves check covid certificates a lot more than actual immigration checks do.

 

RyanAir for example are notorious for stopping people boarding for all manner of alleged iffy reasons because they’re paranoid they’ll lose the price of a ticket.

 

It has nothing to do with Brexit or any other destination country though. That’s private airlines or ferry companies, it’s not the same as passenger ferries to France actually going through French immigration controls in the UK.

I'm shocked that I am allowed to enter multiple European countries via a cruise ship without any form of passport control including France.

 

It makes the required checks at Dover / Calais look even more unnecessary.

 

It is nothing to do with Brexit, on that we agree.

 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, kenny said:

You have to have permission to enter the countries that the ship sails to. So you go through the full passport system to enter EU countries, it's no different to flying or getting the ferry into another country.

Sorry but you don’t go through passport control of all those countries when you check in at soton 

 

your passport details are all logged and the cruise line can pass that information to immigration at the places where you visit. 
 

I dont know how this has changed since 1 Jan this year.  When we visited various European ports in 2018 and 2019, they generally waved you through passport control when you walked off the ship and some ports had no control at all.  I suspect now that they have a system where they check everyone on the vessel once you’ve checked in with a centralised EU office and if anyone is not able to disembark because they’ve exceeded their allowance of days  in the EU then they will be told that they have to stay on the ship. 
 

are you saying that when you disembark to visit an EU port that your passport was not stamped by anyone ? 

Edited 24 July 2022 by st albans fox

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Firstly I’m not. Of course Brexit has caused problems. But I truly believe there is no will on the part of some to make it work. It clearly can work as evidenced by my recent visit to Faro, yes my passport was stamped but on that occasion the process took no longer than passing through immigration has ever done. And yet on other occasions as z-layrex said, they can be obstructive. These problems are not just down to Brexit, that’s my belief anyway. Wouldn’t exactly say Tice is just some random guy either. 

You're Tice has a clear agenda, I wasn't aware of him before but it is very clear he has an agenda so no surprise he is claiming that these delays are comparable to delays caused by strikes in 2015. I would suggest you view everything he says as twisted to suit his agenda and not gospel truth.

 

As for your trip to Faro, I'm happy you weren't delayed but it's not proof of anything, as others have said exiting via Dover is very different to flying to another country, there is probably never more than 1 flight from the UK arriving at a time so it is going to be easy to manage especially outside of peak tourism times. Pre Brexit there were more often than not 0 checks, depending on which airport and terminal you flew to. I'd more often than not walk off my flight and straight out the door. There was no possibility of delays. At Faro or anywhere in Europe now there is a risk of delays due to staffing, scheduling or myriad other reasons and anecdotal evidence of your hassle free trip to Faro doesn't change that fact.

 

 

[kenny]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Sorry but you don’t go through passport control of all those countries when you check in at soton 

 

your passport details are all logged and the cruise line can pass that information to immigration at the places where you visit. 
 

I dont know how this has changed since 1 Jan this year.  When we visited various European ports in 2018 and 2019, they generally waved you through passport control when you walked off the ship and some ports had no control at all.  I suspect now that they have a system where they check everyone on the vessel once you’ve checked in with a centralised EU office and if anyone is not able to disembark because they’ve exceeded their allowance of days  in the EU then they will be told that they have to stay on the ship. 
 

are you saying that when you disembark to visit an EU port that your passport was not stamped by anyone ? 

Correct. You are not checked by anyone when you disembark except the ship staff.

 

I assume it's because passport control is dealt with as you board the ship which was a very efficient process and is the same one you go through in the airport when you enter a country.

 

[purpleronnie]

 

[weller54]

The Elton John wannabe was on TV this morning supporting the Maggie Thatcher wannabe....wearing her best Dressing gown...

What a fvcking state!!!!

[st albans fox]

23 minutes ago, kenny said:

Correct. You are not checked by anyone when you disembark except the ship staff.

 

I assume it's because passport control is dealt with as you board the ship which was a very efficient process and is the same one you go through in the airport when you enter a country.

 

If your passport isn’t being stamped on entry to these countries then there must be an agreement between the shipping lines and the eu that one day visits on cruises are not to be counted towards your annual allowance. 
 

hence you only need to be checked for standard terrorism/interpol stuff which can be done on check in as per passport control on departing any uk airport which is fairly quick. 
 

there is no doubt that France is not making things easy for uk citizens to get there via ferries/euro tunnel.  I guess that politically that makes some sense to them.  Without brexit things would be as they were pre pandemic - so it is a brexit thing but it’s exacerbated by the French making a political point. it will change over time and become less of an issue as better systems are put into place. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

Can't believe the things they said would be crap as a result of Brexit are crap but for completely different reasons. 

 

What are the chances? Extraordinarily bad luck. 

 

Confident all the good stuff will become apparent any day now

[kenny]

17 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

If your passport isn’t being stamped on entry to these countries then there must be an agreement between the shipping lines and the eu that one day visits on cruises are not to be counted towards your annual allowance. 
 

hence you only need to be checked for standard terrorism/interpol stuff which can be done on check in as per passport control on departing any uk airport which is fairly quick. 
 

there is no doubt that France is not making things easy for uk citizens to get there via ferries/euro tunnel.  I guess that politically that makes some sense to them.  Without brexit things would be as they were pre pandemic - so it is a brexit thing but it’s exacerbated by the French making a political point. it will change over time and become less of an issue as better systems are put into place. 

Pretty much. The lorries were always going to be an issue but there is no reason for the passengers to be held up.

 

I would be looking to do a deal with Belgium to reduce the reliance on France and their political tendencies.

[bovril]

'Deals with the Belgians' sounds a bit like 2016 and the promises we were going to do a bespoke trade deal with individual EU members or someone like Daniel Hannam claiming we would start a new trade block with the low countries because they still remembered and respected the Anglo-Flemish Wool Trade treaty of 1136. European countries value the EU more than doing business with the UK, I thought that was pretty clear by now. 

[Captain...]

50 minutes ago, bovril said:

'Deals with the Belgians' sounds a bit like 2016 and the promises we were going to do a bespoke trade deal with individual EU members or someone like Daniel Hannam claiming we would start a new trade block with the low countries because they still remembered and respected the Anglo-Flemish Wool Trade treaty of 1136. European countries value the EU more than doing business with the UK, I thought that was pretty clear by now. 

Of course we could open up ferry routes to Belgium and Spain and Portugal and the Netherlands but the reason why Dover to Calais is so popular is because it is the shortest crossing by far and as such the cheapest and most convenient. 

 

It is quicker to get the ferry to Calais and drive to Belgium than get a ferry to Belgium.

[Fazzer 7]

[weller54]

1 hour ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Don't blame the French (or any other EU member Country) for thoroughly disliking the English!!..

The way the shambles of Brexit was handled by our liar-in-chief and that cretin Frost, fvcking about and threatening to break international law (which is still in place!!).... can you blame them?

Total arrogance and thinking we're so fvcking superior to everyone else!!

Ashamed to be associated with this Country these days.

The damage Brexit has done is just heartbreaking....

and for what????🤬🤬🤬🤬

Edited 24 July 2022 by weller54

[FoxesDeb]

33 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Have you got the actual article, rather than just the headline please?

[FoxesDeb]

Just now, weller54 said:

Don't blame the French (or any other EU member Country) for thoroughly disliking the English!!..

The way the shambles of Brexit was handled by our liar-in-chief and that cretin Frost, fvcking about and threatening to break international law (which is still in place!!).... can't you blame them?

Total arrogance and thinking we're so fvcking superior to everyone else!!

Ashamed to be associated with this Country these days.

The damage Brexit has done is just heartbreaking....

and for what????🤬🤬🤬🤬

Speaking of unforseen damage, Brits who are resident in Spain but didn't register their intent to exchange their driving licences before the end of December 2020 are currently unable to drive on their UK licences here.

 

There are many who either weren't aware they needed to, arrived too late to be able to, or just received poor advice from the people who should have known better, most of whom were being paid for legal advice. 

 

It's causing absolute heartbreak for some people, who are living in areas without public transport and so unable to get to medical appointments, chemists, shops, work,  and currently there's no end in sight for them.

 

There are probably many more Brexit related drawbacks that the average UK citizen has no idea about, too.

[FerrisBueller]

3 hours ago, Captain... said:

You're Tice has a clear agenda, I wasn't aware of him before but it is very clear he has an agenda so no surprise he is claiming that these delays are comparable to delays caused by strikes in 2015. I would suggest you view everything he says as twisted to suit his agenda and not gospel truth.

 

As for your trip to Faro, I'm happy you weren't delayed but it's not proof of anything, as others have said exiting via Dover is very different to flying to another country, there is probably never more than 1 flight from the UK arriving at a time so it is going to be easy to manage especially outside of peak tourism times. Pre Brexit there were more often than not 0 checks, depending on which airport and terminal you flew to. I'd more often than not walk off my flight and straight out the door. There was no possibility of delays. At Faro or anywhere in Europe now there is a risk of delays due to staffing, scheduling or myriad other reasons and anecdotal evidence of your hassle free trip to Faro doesn't change that fact.

 

 

Richard Tice, founder of the brexit party.

[st albans fox]

39 minutes ago, weller54 said:

 

The damage Brexit has done is just heartbreaking....

and for what????🤬🤬🤬🤬

We have a trade agreement with New Zealand ……. 
I know it’s the same one we had when we were in the EU but we can now put it inside a nice navy blue folder ……

[bovril]

40 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Don't blame the French (or any other EU member Country) for thoroughly disliking the English!!..

The way the shambles of Brexit was handled by our liar-in-chief and that cretin Frost, fvcking about and threatening to break international law (which is still in place!!).... can you blame them?

Total arrogance and thinking we're so fvcking superior to everyone else!!

Ashamed to be associated with this Country these days.

The damage Brexit has done is just heartbreaking....

and for what????🤬🤬🤬🤬

I can't say I've encountered much resentment towards the English during my post-Brexit travels in Europe* but obviously they think it's fair we stew in our own mess for some time and I'm sure if France had done something similar we'd feel the same.

 

*Should be pointed out I am a stylish, well-read polyglot so that probably helps

[Captain...]

57 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Have you got the actual article, rather than just the headline please?

Behind a paywall, but Bloomberg have a version of the story: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-24/france-blocks-efforts-to-increase-eurostar-services-telegraph

 

"Eurostar wants to increase the number of trips between London and Paris to 17 a day, the newspaper reported. But French border and security officials at Gare du Nord say that they can manage only a maximum of 13 trains a day even amid a boom in demand for overseas travel this summer, according to the publication."