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Lionator

The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

By Lionator, in General Chat

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Brizzle Fox

Brizzle Fox

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, BKLFox said:

Reading that the French were only manning half the security booths at Dover, there's no arrogance to request that they fully man the booths during a summer/holiday period, this they have control over & have chosen to not fully man adding / cause to the delays.

It's taking back control innit. We are totally self sufficient and don't need to rely on others..oh

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

"We" didn't make it, though, did we?

 

I'm taking no fvcking share of the blame. Vast majority of my generation voted to absolutely sack that shit right off. I'd genuinely be interested to know the exact year, the exact moment, that the last coffin dodging Brexiteer dies to tip us over the point where those left living have a majority remain count. That'd be fascinating you know. Wouldn't surprise if it's taken so long to actually GeT bReXiT dOnE that we're already there. Someone must have written articles about this already, surely?

 

As a Remain-voting coffin dodger, I'm not sure it's fair for age to be the only criterion in defining who's in the righteous "We" and who's excluded.....

 

Let's also look at gender: 55% of males voted Leave v. only 49% of females

https://www.statista.com/statistics/567922/brexit-votes-by-gender/

 

Let's also look at ethnicity: 53% of whites voted Leave v. between 27% and 35% for other ethnicities

https://www.statista.com/statistics/519308/eu-referendum-voting-intention-in-uk-by-ethnicity/

 

Let's also look at the different UK nations: while the Scots voted 62% Remain and the Northern Irish 56% Remain, the Welsh voted 52.5% Leave, almost as many as the English (53.4%)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

 

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I assumed you were male and probably white - and got the distinct impression that you might be Welsh?

If so, you can take your share of the blame, too. :D

 

Admittedly, my age-group in 2016 (45-54, just!) voted 56% Leave, but so did 38% of those aged 25-34 and 48% of those aged 35-44. Even among those aged 65+ in 2016, 40% voted Remain....

https://www.statista.com/statistics/520954/brexit-votes-by-age/

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Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted (edited)

One of the weirdest things about the referendum was that in the UK is that long term commonwealth citizens could vote but long term EU citizens couldn’t, despite it gravely affecting the latter far more.

 

UK and Irish citizens living in the UK can always vote, regardless of how long they’ve lived here. As can UK citizens who live abroad and have lived in the UK within the past 15 years.

 

Then commonwealth who leave to remain can also vote - generally by living in the UK for 5 years, but also for certain other agreements like Windrush or people who served in the UK military.
 

Not saying they’re wrong, but from the EU, only British, Irish, Maltese and Cypriot (as Malta and Cyprus are both EU and commonwealth countries) citizens could vote in the EU referendum.

 

I had an Italian colleague who’d lived, worked and paid taxes in the UK for 20 years, yet she could not vote in a referendum that affected her greatly. Yet a Zambian citizen living in the UK for 5 years could do (not saying there’s anything wrong with allowing that Zambian citizen to vote, just that it was rather bizarre they were allowed to in an EU referendum while a long term resident from an EU country wasn’t).

 

Edit: to preempt a “why didn’t they get citizenship then?” comment - because it costs roughly £2,000 for the entire process to get naturalised UK citizenship and also requires you to keep precise paperwork of things over at least a 5 year spell and we’ll, frankly, if you were an EU citizen there was never any need for it if you could live, work and study here anyway so it would just be a waste of £2000.

Edited by Sampson
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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

so, you can take your share of the blame, too

 

I just shamefully bit, it was like travelling back to circa 2006, wrote out some massive, classic Finners rant. Got pretty close to finishing eight paragraphs deep before realising I was half way round lidl and more annoyed at the pratt dawdling at the bakery than I was at you. 

 

Long story short, if you also voted Remain then I obviously also absolve you of blame, so you can untwist your knickers (I see the irony, yes.)

 

My post may have been misleading. My revoking myself of responsibility was separate to my quasi-ageist* ranting about the near-deceased. 

 

(*read not ageist at all, just facts, but I know you get a bit sensitive about being dubiously close to your sell by date and am offering the mirage of an olive branch.)

 

I do love you really Alf.

 

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

"We" didn't make it, though, did we?

 

I'm taking no fvcking share of the blame. Vast majority of my generation voted to absolutely sack that shit right off. I'd genuinely be interested to know the exact year, the exact moment, that the last coffin dodging Brexiteer dies to tip us over the point where those left living have a majority remain count. That'd be fascinating you know. Wouldn't surprise if it's taken so long to actually GeT bReXiT dOnE that we're already there. Someone must have written articles about this already, surely?

Just wondering do you view all people in the generation before you etc as coffin dodgers?  Does seem a bit of an unfriendly phrase. You will become the older generation soon enough all being well. I wish young and old on our forum good health and happiness. Let us not divide between generations

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

do you view all people in the generation before you etc as coffin dodgers?

 

Eh, Gen X not quite yet. It helps I'm a little bias, they gave us some of my favourite music. 

 

4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Does seem a bit of an unfriendly phrase

 

I believe the stock response to that is "OK, boomer."

 

4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

You will become the older generation soon enough all being well

 

Not if I can help it. 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I just shamefully bit, it was like travelling back to circa 2006, wrote out some massive, classic Finners rant. Got pretty close to finishing eight paragraphs deep before realising I was half way round lidl and more annoyed at the pratt dawdling at the bakery than I was at you. 

 

Long story short, if you also voted Remain then I obviously also absolve you of blame, so you can untwist your knickers (I see the irony, yes.)

 

My post may have been misleading. My revoking myself of responsibility was separate to my quasi-ageist* ranting about the near-deceased. 

 

(*read not ageist at all, just facts, but I know you get a bit sensitive about being dubiously close to your sell by date and am offering the mirage of an olive branch.)

 

 

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I do love you really Alf.

 

 

My post was meant to be tongue in cheek but thought provoking, rather than involving either your or my underwear getting disarrayed. :D

 

I assumed you were just letting off steam about elderly reactionaries, as I do myself sometimes. Though, rather than Brexit, I tend to get angrier thinking about how older generations (including mine) have used power to fix economic and social structures so as to grab an unfair share of wealth and opportunity over the long-term. I'm talking about issues like affordable housing, decent pensions, secure employment, cheap Higher Education etc. There I go, indulging in ageist generalizations myself...

 

But I do think excessive generalization about different groups risks stoking division - and even hatred among the more thick-headed (not you, clearly). We should all be "We", even annoying reactionaries who need arguing with - except particular individuals who prove themselves to be beyond the pale.

 

Yes, it's a (generalized) fact that older generations voted disproportionately for Brexit. Just as it's a fact that men, white people and Welsh people were majority Leave-voting groups.....or willie-wagglers, pasty faces and leek suckers, if we want equivalents to "coffin dodgers".

 

But a few of those stats really surprised me. I didn't realise that as many as 40% of over-65s had voted Remain or that as many as 48% of those aged 35-44 had voted Leave.

Clearly my perceptions had been skewed by the divisive rhetoric of ageist hatemongers like you (;)).

 

As for my impending sell-by date (you'll feel guilty if I snuff it now, won't you? lol), I was delighted to receive my Senior Railcard today, though I won't be able to use it for a few days yet.

 

No mirage of an olive branch is required, as I actively enjoy arguing over ideas. I also love you dearly, mate - a Class A poster, if no more infallible than I am. Unfortunately, I'm too senile to insert a spoiler, so am compelled to declare my love openly. :thumbup:

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I'm talking about issues like affordable housing, decent pensions, secure employment, cheap Higher Education etc. There I go, indulging in ageist generalizations myself...

 

Didn't even think to throw in their contributions to climate change, typical boomer ignorance eh @leicsmac

 

Edited by Finnegan
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FoxesDeb

FoxesDeb

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Eh, Gen X not quite yet. It helps I'm a little bias, they gave us some of my favourite music. 

 

 

I believe the stock response to that is "OK, boomer."

 

 

Not if I can help it. 

*biased 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Didn't even think to throw in their contributions to climate change, typical boomer ignorance eh @leicsmac

 

 

Believe it or not, that occurred to me the minute I sent my post. But I couldn't be arsed to edit it. You know how lethargic us coffin dodgers are....

 

When my Dad was on his way out a few years back, as well as asking me to go ahead and arrange his funeral, he asked me - in all seriousness - to put his coffin in his room, so that he could be easily transferred when he died (he had mild dementia, but retained a sort of deeper rationality). I didn't comply but hope to be as welcoming of my coffin when my time comes - but hope it's not for a while yet. 

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The Horse's Mouth

The Horse's Mouth

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, weller54 said:

Scotland voted 63% remain.

NI 98.1% remain!!!!!!

I hate what England has become!!..a xenophobic, racist, far right, union jack waving morons ! .. honestly, one of the reasons I cannot stand watching the England football team any longer, because a big percentage of their followers are exactly in the group I've described 🤬🤬!

England is going down a very very dangerous path!

Look what happened in Nazi Germany.

Think you need some time off the internet pal 

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Corky

Corky

Posted
Posted

There is something appealing about this pair getting ever more desperate and vile in their desire to become PM only for that rotter to stay in place having watched them slag off his premiership and absolve themselves of responsibility.

 

It would neatly sum up the shitshow of a circus we have allegedly running the country.

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