The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[purpleronnie]

If labour cant destroy the Tories in the local elections with all the shit that's happening at the moment then you can forget them winning a general election.

[LVFox]

23 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

If labour cant destroy the Tories in the local elections with all the shit that's happening at the moment then you can forget them winning a general election.

I mean, the conservatives have lost almost 500 seats….2nd worst result since they came to power. They’ve been pretty hammered.

[SpacedX]

7 minutes ago, LVocey said:

I mean

^

[Lionator]

33 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

If labour cant destroy the Tories in the local elections with all the shit that's happening at the moment then you can forget them winning a general election.

Not sure about this. The green’s and Lib Dems have taken a lot of councils. That’s a lot of people who are within Labour’s reach come general election. I’m happy also that people are voting for parties who care about local politics. Lib Dems and the Green’s do more for the local areas than tories and Labour ever would. 

[weller54]

40 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

If labour cant destroy the Tories in the local elections with all the shit that's happening at the moment then you can forget them winning a general election.

Starmer isn't a strong enough Character to win over the electorate it's as simple as that.

I had great hopes when he took over the leadership but he's disappointed me with his lack of charisma and style of leadership.

That said, I'd much rather him as our PM than the lying tw*t we now have at the helm!

 

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Starmer isn't a strong enough Character to win over the electorate it's as simple as that.

I had great hopes when he took over the leadership but he's disappointed me with his lack of charisma and style of leadership.

That said, I'd much rather him as our PM than the lying tw*t we now have at the helm!

 

I do agree about Starmer but I blame the public for their shallow approach. Choosing a government is not another episode of The X factor or whatever. Labour always accused of being in the grip of the unions. There have been times I wished I had been in a union at work. Funny how the mud does not stick in the same way for the Tories in the pocket of big business. Spot on about Johnson. I think he would have no choice but to go but Ukraine crisis saved him

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Starmer isn't a strong enough Character to win over the electorate it's as simple as that.

I had great hopes when he took over the leadership but he's disappointed me with his lack of charisma and style of leadership.

That said, I'd much rather him as our PM than the lying tw*t we now have at the helm!

 

I do agree about Starmer but I blame the public for their shallow approach. Choosing a government is not another episode of The X factor or whatever. Labour always accused of being in the grip of the unions. There have been times I wished I had been in a union at work. Funny how the mud does not stick in the same way for the Tories in the pocket of big business. Spot on about Johnson. I think he would have no choice but to go but Ukraine crisis saved him

[Robo61]

10 hours ago, kenny said:

I managed and Starmer is cleverer than me.

 

He and his team could have eaten separately whilst working away. It was a bit annoying for those of us that did it, but it was very achievable.

 

So you are saying they should have all ordered seperate take aways and gone out side to eat them or gone back to their hotel rooms.  What about people who took sandwiches to work,  must they have gone outside to eat them.  This is clearly very different to the numorous parties that were held withion the PM's home/work.

[Sampson]

Fecking hell.

 

The Tories leak a week before the elections they’re going to take a disastrous, like biggest hammering in history that no poll is close to predicting.

 

They then take a hammering in the election.

 

Also most of the old red seats which turned blue weren’t taking parts in council elections. There were way more rural than urban council elections in England which are never going to turn red. This isn’t a full countrywide UK election.

 

People then go back to the shit they leaked and don’t make the story about the clear Tory hammering but instead try to make it about “it’s nowhere near as bad as the worst case scenario.” “Just shows Labour can’t lay a glove on them and Starmer is weak”.

 

This is as big a turnaround over a 12 month period in polls as we’ve seen since the Blair days.

Edited 7 May 2022 by Sampson

[kenny]

29 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

So you are saying they should have all ordered seperate take aways and gone out side to eat them or gone back to their hotel rooms.  What about people who took sandwiches to work,  must they have gone outside to eat them.  This is clearly very different to the numorous parties that were held withion the PM's home/work.

That's what we had to do. It was very irritating. Furthermore, we had strict working policies with regard to social distancing and cross contamination that would have stopped us having shared food in that way.

 

As I have previously stated, the parties in downing Street needing dealing with. Sunak and Johnson were fined for the cake in the cabinet room not for the drinks in the basement.

[Fox in the North]

 

[Facecloth]

11 minutes ago, kenny said:

That's what we had to do. It was very irritating. Furthermore, we had strict working policies with regard to social distancing and cross contamination that would have stopped us having shared food in that way.

 

As I have previously stated, the parties in downing Street needing dealing with. Sunak and Johnson were fined for the cake in the cabinet room not for the drinks in the basement.

And once again, the birthday cake was for pleasure, the curry was for sustenance. The inclusion of alcohol isn't the issue here, its one was people eating whilst they pause work the other was people gathering in a room to to have fun. One is acceptable, the other is not. You keep going back to thr basement party when nobody is mentioning it.

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

^

 

What is your issue with people saying that out of interest?

[kenny]

6 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

And once again, the birthday cake was for pleasure, the curry was for sustenance. The inclusion of alcohol isn't the issue here, its one was people eating whilst they pause work the other was people gathering in a room to to have fun. One is acceptable, the other is not. You keep going back to thr basement party when nobody is mentioning it.

Thankfully they didn't eat the cake otherwise they really would be for it. It's odd that labour politicians can pause for food yet Tory ones cannot. One rule for one etc etc.

 

I'll leave it here, but assuming the police are fair and not politically motived then SKS will be getting a notice in the post.

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, kenny said:

Thankfully they didn't eat the cake otherwise they really would be for it. It's odd that labour politicians can pause for food yet Tory ones cannot. One rule for one etc etc.

 

I'll leave it here, but assuming the police are fair and not politically motived then SKS will be getting a notice in the post.

I have said on numerous occasion I have no problem with pausing for food regardless of political party, I have an issue with getting together for a social gathering. One wasn't illegal, the other was. Starmer did the first, Johnson did the second. Simple as that. 

 

You'll leave it there because you know you're wrong, it's why you keep making irrelevant points and ignoring things I've said. 

Edited 7 May 2022 by Facecloth

[kenny]

E

11 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I have said on numerous occasion I have no problem with pausing for food regardless of political party, I have an issue with getting together for a social gathering. One wasn't illegal, the other was. Starmer did the first, Johnson did the second. Simple as that. 

 

You'll leave it there because you know you're wrong, it's why you keep making irrelevant points and ignoring things I've said. 

Touche

[LiberalFox]

34 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Fecking hell.

 

The Tories leak a week before the elections they’re going to take a disastrous, like biggest hammering in history that no poll is close to predicting.

 

They then take a hammering in the election.

 

Also most of the old red seats which turned blue weren’t taking parts in council elections. There were way more rural than urban council elections in England which are never going to turn red. This isn’t a full countrywide UK election.

 

People then go back to the shit they leaked and don’t make the story about the clear Tory hammering but instead try to make it about “it’s nowhere near as bad as the worst case scenario.” “Just shows Labour can’t lay a glove on them and Starmer is weak”.

 

This is as big a turnaround over a 12 month period in polls as we’ve seen since the Blair days.

Yeah I've been a bit surprised by some of the reactions including the bbc (maybe I shouldn't be)

 

"Labour's move forward was notable. Impressive and symbolic wins in London. Seats from Cumbria to Southampton, second place in Scotland, where SNP had another impressive performance with their incredible years of dominance.

Yet on these results Labour is not progressing far or fast enough for them to be sure they're on track for Number 10. Where the Tories were losing, they were often losing to the Liberal Democrats, who had a great outing, but are not their main rival." - Laura Kuenssberg 

 

Somehow it's framed as a poor showing for Labour that they aren't "sure they're on track for Number 10" despite the Conservatives owning a massive majority. While the LDs aren't the opposition they are a threat to Conservative "blue wall" seats in a GE and those people backing LD councilors in constituencies that are Con/Lab marginals are much more likely to back the Labour candidate at a GE. The same goes for the Greens. 

 

These results are at the high end of Conservative loss estimates (I heard 300 was expected and we are closer to 500). 

 

 

[purpleronnie]

2 hours ago, LVocey said:

I mean, the conservatives have lost almost 500 seats….2nd worst result since they came to power. They’ve been pretty hammered.

Its where they lost them that is the critical part, without the tories losing the red wall Labour wont regain power.

[kenny]

20 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Its where they lost them that is the critical part, without the tories losing the red wall Labour wont regain power.

On the current showing a labour- lib dem coalition is feasible. Or a minority Labour government backed by the lib Dems more likely.

[Finnegan]

On 05/05/2022 at 17:16, Sampson said:

England really does ruin the UK. Dunno why the Scots, N. Irish and Weslh still want to be in this union. If I were them I'd form a Celtic Union with Ireland instead, much more progressive and less depressing than England these days.

 

Just nobody mention the Brexit results.

 

Not our finest moment...

[bovril]

2 hours ago, weller54 said:

Starmer isn't a strong enough Character to win over the electorate it's as simple as that.

I had great hopes when he took over the leadership but he's disappointed me with his lack of charisma and style of leadership.

That said, I'd much rather him as our PM than the lying tw*t we now have at the helm!

 

Are there people who seriously still care about this kind of thing? I don't love Starmer honestly but the charisma of the next PM is so down the list of my worries at the moment.

[Leicester_Loyal]

Beautiful to see the Tories take a battering. Serves them right for the mess they've caused over the past 2 years.

[Sampson]

56 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Its where they lost them that is the critical part, without the tories losing the red wall Labour wont regain power.

Probably because the Red Wall largely wasn't involved in this election. How can you blame Starmer for not turning areas where they weren't even being voted on ffs!

Here's where seats were being voted on:



And look what was being voted on:


London Boroughs - where Labour have done well and made gains in this election and Metropolitain Boroughs - which are prime Labour territory anyway and where Labour already basically control almost all of them already. Were the 2 main areas being voted on.

On every other type of authority, less than 15% of seats were being voted on.

And that simply isn't true anyway. Labour have been greatly gaining in the Blue Wall in the South East and Home Counties in recent years. There's absolutely no reason they have to get the Red Wall seats back if they win the Blue Wall seats, which is a real possibility.

 

The class division North/South divide of Labour/Cosnervatives is a thing of the 80s. Absolutely all the voting data shows that class plays very little role in who votes for who anymore and it's far, far more a split vote by age, education level (partly related to age) and whether you are a 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant or if your family laying roots in the UK goes back further than your grandparents.

Edited 7 May 2022 by Sampson

[purpleronnie]

On 05/05/2022 at 17:16, Sampson said:

England really does ruin the UK. Dunno why the Scots, N. Irish and Weslh still want to be in this union. If I were them I'd form a Celtic Union with Ireland instead, much more progressive and less depressing than England these days.

Have to agree.  I remember being obsessed with the results of the Scottish independence vote and was so relieved that they voted to remain because i thought without the Scot's Brexit would happen, turns out even with the Scot's Brexit still happened.

 

Now I'm in favour of Ireland and Scotland becoming independent.  Like you i feel the Irish and Scottish are so much more progressive than the English,  I feel a huge disconnect with a lot of the English population.  I had plans to move to Spain also which was scuppered by the Brexit vote which didn't help my overall view.

 

We (the English) seem hell bent in trying to live in some idealistic view of the past, where the rest of the world are moving forwards, I just don't understand why we look back so much, its unhealthy and wont lead to anything good.

 

So I say go for it Ireland and Scotland, it'll pay off in the long run.

[Dahnsouff]

53 minutes ago, bovril said:

Are there people who seriously still care about this kind of thing? I don't love Starmer honestly but the charisma of the next PM is so down the list of my worries at the moment.

You cannot be serious surely? Are you  suggesting that optics is not a thing?? I am not disputing if it should be, it shouldn’t, but come on. If it were not then sh*t like reality shows would not be a thing.