The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Legend_in_blue]

Listening in to the hustings in Leeds courtesy of LBC.  Genuinely staggered at the amount of support for Bojo amongst the audience.  Incredible.  

[Foxdiamond]

12 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Listening in to the hustings in Leeds courtesy of LBC.  Genuinely staggered at the amount of support for Bojo amongst the audience.  Incredible.  

As I once mentioned we get the leaders we deserve sometimes. Bunch of simpletons. 

[weller54]

7 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

As I once mentioned we get the leaders we deserve sometimes. Bunch of simpletons. 

Brainwashed simpletons!

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, weller54 said:

Brainwashed simpletons!

Leeds.

 

Nuff said.

[weller54]

#gonads😂

[Dames]

On 27/07/2022 at 21:44, Finnegan said:

 

Yeah but Jones has been seduced by his success and now is only interested in pandering to his fan base and telling them what they want to hear. 

 

He probably knows better he just doesn't want to broadcast that because it's not selling. 

I find that left leaning commentators are just as disingenuous as the the right leaning ones. 
 

Most of these people know much better, but knowing better doesnt get clicks, likes, impressions or interactions. 

[Dames]

11 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Listening in to the hustings in Leeds courtesy of LBC.  Genuinely staggered at the amount of support for Bojo amongst the audience.  Incredible.  

The grass roots Conservative party was taken over by UKIP and BNP members years ago. 

[Fazzer 7]

The far left outlier’s in the labour ranks want a general strike now! Surely this is playing into Tory hands. Starmer has a job on his hands now in containing the dissenters. What is it with these Parties, left right they always end up infighting. 

[taupe]

8 minutes ago, Dames said:

The grass roots Conservative party was taken over by UKIP and BNP members years ago. 

Does seem to be going that way. It scares me. The Tories have wrestled with it for years. Cameron thought he could resolve it and opened the door. The door got kicked down. I'd like to think it would split the party but I can't see that, they'll just move increasingly to the right.

[kenny]

4 minutes ago, taupe said:

Does seem to be going that way. It scares me. The Tories have wrestled with it for years. Cameron thought he could resolve it and opened the door. The door got kicked down. I'd like to think it would split the party but I can't see that, they'll just move increasingly to the right.

Not managed it so far. Their policies have been almost left wing in recent times, though much of that was bought on by COVID.

[BenTheFox]

49 minutes ago, weller54 said:

#gonads😂

The Secretary of State for sport doesn't know when the Commonwealth games was last held in the UK, once referred to Tennis Courts as 'Tennis Pitches' and doesn't know the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union. What a joke. 

[kenny]

5 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

The Secretary of State for sport doesn't know when the Commonwealth games was last held in the UK, once referred to Tennis Courts as 'Tennis Pitches' and doesn't know the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union. What a joke. 

What's worse is that it's another nail into the union. The SNP will have a field day with it.

[weller54]

9 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

The Secretary of State for sport doesn't know when the Commonwealth games was last held in the UK, once referred to Tennis Courts as 'Tennis Pitches' and doesn't know the difference between Rugby League and Rugby Union. What a joke. 

She probably thinks the UK ends at Carlisle!!....

She is one silly cow!

 

[fuchsntf]

16 minutes ago, weller54 said:

She probably thinks the UK ends at Carlisle!!....

She is one silly cow!

 

Ahh but which  Variant of the species???

[Alf Bentley]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/28/sunak-says-as-pm-he-would-back-creation-of-new-grammar-schools

 

"Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, has endorsed Liz Truss to be the next Conservative leader and prime minister, giving her campaign a major boost after the candidates’ hustings in Leeds on Thursday night".

 

Step forward Foreign Secretary Wallace - and PM Truss? 

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/28/sunak-says-as-pm-he-would-back-creation-of-new-grammar-schools

 

"Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, has endorsed Liz Truss to be the next Conservative leader and prime minister, giving her campaign a major boost after the candidates’ hustings in Leeds on Thursday night".

 

Step forward Foreign Secretary Wallace - and PM Truss? 

 

Just keep telling ourselves she can't do much damage before Labour oust her 🤞

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Just keep telling ourselves she can't do much damage before Labour oust her 🤞

 

I'd like to believe that - and Truss seems of a very low calibre on a personal level.

 

But never under-estimate the propensity of the British public for falling for a bit of bullshit, media browbeating, a tax bribe or a bit of rampant nationalism - or the ability of Labour to shoot itself in the foot.....

 

Sunak may be an oily representative of the big business elite and potentially a more difficult opponent for Labour, but he seems to have some degree of competence, and I'd prefer us not to have at least 2 more years under another obnoxious self-seeking populist loose cannon. Truss is big on half-baked ultra-laissez-faire ideology, whereas Johnson was pure narcissistic ego.....otherwise she's the closest there was to a Continuity Boris candidate. Want promises of massive tax cuts together with big increases in defence and other spending, while picking a fight with the unions.....here she is, with a new platter of lies for us, lies perhaps even richer than Johnson served up....

 

It's true that she may leave the country an utter wreck after 2 years, thereby facilitating a Labour win (minority govt, probably). But I'd prefer not to have the country wrecked for 2 years, during what is already a major crisis - and even if Labour win on the back of that, it could just mean that they spend 5 years trying to clear up her mess and end up getting thrown out again in 2029 as the public blame them for whatever shit remains.... sorry, not my usual cheerful, optimistic self this morning! 

[Dames]

1 hour ago, taupe said:

Does seem to be going that way. It scares me. The Tories have wrestled with it for years. Cameron thought he could resolve it and opened the door. The door got kicked down. I'd like to think it would split the party but I can't see that, they'll just move increasingly to the right.

Culturally they’ll lurch to the right but fiscally I don’t think they can move very much from where they are. 
 

59 minutes ago, kenny said:

Not managed it so far. Their policies have been almost left wing in recent times, though much of that was bought on by COVID.

Thats because most people left or right want better public services and for that to happen there needs to be more ‘left wing’ policies. The country is on its knees after decades of right wing policies. 
 

Right wing policies involve selling public services to the highest bidder who will then slowly decline the service whilst sucking all the profits dry and then wait for a nice juicy Gov bailout. 

[gerblod]

On 27/07/2022 at 17:41, Dunge said:

Presumably sacked from the front bench (not the party) because Starmer warned internally that anyone who did that would have to go. In which case, what other choice did they have?

 

I appreciate people want Labour to be on the side of the unions and the workers, but I understand their fear that they could lose credibility among the swing voters if they join the picket lines. People could easily see them as not a serious party of government, which is what Starmer’s been trying to build up in his time as leader.

There's a wide gulf between being an electable party and a serious party of government. Gordon Brown was ridiculed, chastised and scapegoated for being PM in the meltdown following the Lehman brothers subprime mortgage bankruptcy. That was a global economic event in its domino effect, yet the British public had to have a head on a pole. That led to the most incompetent UK government possibly in history. 

I always believed that the failure of responsible voting in this country was down to political ignorance and a feeling of powerlessness amongst the electorate. But the popularity of Johnson proved that another factor is at work. For many, his irresponsibility, his lying and his ability to get away with both, his pomposity and his charisma/charm (although I cannot see either) were actually attractive. Voting him in was a gigantic f**k you to the Establishment (of which he is part!). That Establishment, from postwar Churchill through Eden, MacMillan, Home, Thatcher, Blair and Cameron, had been complicit or had failed to respect the social contract and the need to protect a large section of the citizens of this country from the worst effects of unrestricted capitalism.

We've been given money to spend on toys and told we're 'rich' but that wealth has been gradually channelled into fewer hands. Yet we still vote for Tories and college boy/girl New Labourites. Sam Tarry has my complete admiration, just as the 1984 miners' battle against Thatcher had. Being from Coalville, I saw the damage Thatcher's policies did to a huge swathe of communities over Northern England and Southern Scotland. She had no plan to help the soon-to-be unemployed - because she hated the working class.

Starmer is middle-class with good intentions... that won't come to fruition. I'd far rather see Rayner as leader, but wouldn't the press hound her into oblivion.

Starmer talks about growth, but how is that achievable without adding to global warming. It should be clear, even to the forelock-tuggers that the Conservative party is the 'I'm alright, Jack' party, with 160k mostly male, middle-class, Home Counties party members deciding who, between two of Johnson's failures, should fiddle while Rome burns.

The media have always turned on the big unions when they sense money will be directed away from shareholder dividends. They will isolate whichever group come asking for more. Aldi are trying to recruit staff by upping their hourly rate by 40p. I heard a delivery driver talking on R4 about his 17 hour day and how his family time was nonexistent. Is this what we envisaged our world would be in 2022? Polluted, overworked, foodbank reliant and nationally divided - with no politician with enough real leadership qualities apparent to begin repairing the country. 

 

 

 

[kenny]

12 minutes ago, gerblod said:

There's a wide gulf between being an electable party and a serious party of government. Gordon Brown was ridiculed, chastised and scapegoated for being PM in the meltdown following the Lehman brothers subprime mortgage bankruptcy. That was a global economic event in its domino effect, yet the British public had to have a head on a pole. That led to the most incompetent UK government possibly in history. 

I always believed that the failure of responsible voting in this country was down to political ignorance and a feeling of powerlessness amongst the electorate. But the popularity of Johnson proved that another factor is at work. For many, his irresponsibility, his lying and his ability to get away with both, his pomposity and his charisma/charm (although I cannot see either) were actually attractive. Voting him in was a gigantic f**k you to the Establishment (of which he is part!). That Establishment, from postwar Churchill through Eden, MacMillan, Home, Thatcher, Blair and Cameron, had been complicit or had failed to respect the social contract and the need to protect a large section of the citizens of this country from the worst effects of unrestricted capitalism.

We've been given money to spend on toys and told we're 'rich' but that wealth has been gradually channelled into fewer hands. Yet we still vote for Tories and college boy/girl New Labourites. Sam Tarry has my complete admiration, just as the 1984 miners' battle against Thatcher had. Being from Coalville, I saw the damage Thatcher's policies did to a huge swathe of communities over Northern England and Southern Scotland. She had no plan to help the soon-to-be unemployed - because she hated the working class.

Starmer is middle-class with good intentions... that won't come to fruition. I'd far rather see Rayner as leader, but wouldn't the press hound her into oblivion.

Starmer talks about growth, but how is that achievable without adding to global warming. It should be clear, even to the forelock-tuggers that the Conservative party is the 'I'm alright, Jack' party, with 160k mostly male, middle-class, Home Counties party members deciding who, between two of Johnson's failures, should fiddle while Rome burns.

The media have always turned on the big unions when they sense money will be directed away from shareholder dividends. They will isolate whichever group come asking for more. Aldi are trying to recruit staff by upping their hourly rate by 40p. I heard a delivery driver talking on R4 about his 17 hour day and how his family time was nonexistent. Is this what we envisaged our world would be in 2022? Polluted, overworked, foodbank reliant and nationally divided - with no politician with enough real leadership qualities apparent to begin repairing the country. 

 

 

 

Stamer is a much better leader than Rayner could ever hope to be. She would be louder and get more soundbites, but she is a trade unionist and not much more.

 

SKS is starting to show that he understands what leading is about and he is slowly going up in my estimations. I think he has alot more steel than he is being given credit for and has a better chance of winning an election than AR. He has also done a good job of clearing the nutters from the front bench and putting in credible cabinet members. Reeves, Ashworth& Cooper are all decent politicians. I don't whether its Starmers influence or his time on LBC, but David Lammy is no longer a laughing stock and I think is now a decent front bencher too.

 

If its Truss vs Rayner in the next election, then the Lib Dems will be delighted.

[Foxdiamond]

47 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'd like to believe that - and Truss seems of a very low calibre on a personal level.

 

But never under-estimate the propensity of the British public for falling for a bit of bullshit, media browbeating, a tax bribe or a bit of rampant nationalism - or the ability of Labour to shoot itself in the foot.....

 

Sunak may be an oily representative of the big business elite and potentially a more difficult opponent for Labour, but he seems to have some degree of competence, and I'd prefer us not to have at least 2 more years under another obnoxious self-seeking populist loose cannon. Truss is big on half-baked ultra-laissez-faire ideology, whereas Johnson was pure narcissistic ego.....otherwise she's the closest there was to a Continuity Boris candidate. Want promises of massive tax cuts together with big increases in defence and other spending, while picking a fight with the unions.....here she is, with a new platter of lies for us, lies perhaps even richer than Johnson served up....

 

It's true that she may leave the country an utter wreck after 2 years, thereby facilitating a Labour win (minority govt, probably). But I'd prefer not to have the country wrecked for 2 years, during what is already a major crisis - and even if Labour win on the back of that, it could just mean that they spend 5 years trying to clear up her mess and end up getting thrown out again in 2029 as the public blame them for whatever shit remains.... sorry, not my usual cheerful, optimistic self this morning! 

Great post

[gerblod]

19 minutes ago, kenny said:

Stamer is a much better leader than Rayner could ever hope to be. She would be louder and get more soundbites, but she is a trade unionist and not much more.

 

SKS is starting to show that he understands what leading is about and he is slowly going up in my estimations. I think he has alot more steel than he is being given credit for and has a better chance of winning an election than AR. He has also done a good job of clearing the nutters from the front bench and putting in credible cabinet members. Reeves, Ashworth& Cooper are all decent politicians. I don't whether its Starmers influence or his time on LBC, but David Lammy is no longer a laughing stock and I think is now a decent front bencher too.

 

If its Truss vs Rayner in the next election, then the Lib Dems will be delighted.

Your anti-socialist petticoat is showing. You want squeaky clean apparatchiks representing Labour - not people with strategies to solve both the huge short-term and long-term problems confronting the country. When Britain was in dire straits post 1945 it took radical action to repair more than just the war damage. I see the same ills that afflicted the country pre-1939 manifesting in much the same way today.

As for loonies, one has only to look over the Tory benches to see them in abundance. Bridgen, Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Johnson, Truss, Redwood (stiil crazy after all these years). At PMQ, when comparing one front bench to the other, the intelligence is all on the Labour side.

[Foxdiamond]

9 minutes ago, gerblod said:

Your anti-socialist petticoat is showing. You want squeaky clean apparatchiks representing Labour - not people with strategies to solve both the huge short-term and long-term problems confronting the country. When Britain was in dire straits post 1945 it took radical action to repair more than just the war damage. I see the same ills that afflicted the country pre-1939 manifesting in much the same way today.

As for loonies, one has only to look over the Tory benches to see them in abundance. Bridgen, Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Johnson, Truss, Redwood (stiil crazy after all these years). At PMQ, when comparing one front bench to the other, the intelligence is all on the Labour side.

It is staggering that the progress in the lot of the working classes since 1945 is allowed to be rolled back by right wing Tories aided and abetted by the people themselves. If this bunch had been in charge post war I dread to think what would have been the state of the country. Thatcher tore up the post war consensus and things have been in decline ever since. How many people sustain their lives by living on credit yet think they are well off. 

[kenny]

22 minutes ago, gerblod said:

Your anti-socialist petticoat is showing. You want squeaky clean apparatchiks representing Labour - not people with strategies to solve both the huge short-term and long-term problems confronting the country. When Britain was in dire straits post 1945 it took radical action to repair more than just the war damage. I see the same ills that afflicted the country pre-1939 manifesting in much the same way today.

As for loonies, one has only to look over the Tory benches to see them in abundance. Bridgen, Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Johnson, Truss, Redwood (stiil crazy after all these years). At PMQ, when comparing one front bench to the other, the intelligence is all on the Labour side.

There are plenty of loonies in the labour ranks, starmer has removed them from the front bench.

 

It's nothing to do with anti socialism, it's competance. Whether you agree with his message or not, it's clear he has a better chance of delivering it than Rayner.

 

I appreciate you disagree and if you are a labour member you can vote her in of that's what you think is best. Starmer is better electorally and would be better in government.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'd like to believe that - and Truss seems of a very low calibre on a personal level.

 

But never under-estimate the propensity of the British public for falling for a bit of bullshit, media browbeating, a tax bribe or a bit of rampant nationalism - or the ability of Labour to shoot itself in the foot.....

 

Sunak may be an oily representative of the big business elite and potentially a more difficult opponent for Labour, but he seems to have some degree of competence, and I'd prefer us not to have at least 2 more years under another obnoxious self-seeking populist loose cannon. Truss is big on half-baked ultra-laissez-faire ideology, whereas Johnson was pure narcissistic ego.....otherwise she's the closest there was to a Continuity Boris candidate. Want promises of massive tax cuts together with big increases in defence and other spending, while picking a fight with the unions.....here she is, with a new platter of lies for us, lies perhaps even richer than Johnson served up....

 

It's true that she may leave the country an utter wreck after 2 years, thereby facilitating a Labour win (minority govt, probably). But I'd prefer not to have the country wrecked for 2 years, during what is already a major crisis - and even if Labour win on the back of that, it could just mean that they spend 5 years trying to clear up her mess and end up getting thrown out again in 2029 as the public blame them for whatever shit remains.... sorry, not my usual cheerful, optimistic self this morning! 

Ahh we have sailed on high seas  & shored in Strange locations you & I Alf....But nothing as Strange as what happens at home...

The Weirdest thing...its getting worse..

The brigands ,Dacoits & Pirates we wanted to get amongst.....have been sitting in our own Goverment for decades gone & decades that followed...

 

I Really did want to believe.....

A Socialist born, Follower on a free wave of Middle years, and Now still and hardened socialist,

But there was Never a leading bunch that I could hang my hat on.

 

Great backbenchers,even some fair Middle of the Road Blues....But in 60yrs Plus 10, Not one,Not fking one,I could Stand up & vote for...!!!

and I am talking Not about 1 spokesman,But the 12 "unjust" Not hounary. Man or woman...

Baboons and Macaus in the Wild have had more about them...!!ich

And we have seen the "Wall" Cold-war come & go.....and Not One group could prevent Putin...!!

Edited 29 July 2022 by fuchsntf