The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Dahnsouff]

Tough call for Starmer really, as @Facecloth says, if he did the falling on the sword thing and got ahead of this, he could essentially ruin Johnson, but is he a man of that much integrity and/or selfless determination? He is damned if he does, and damned is he doesn’t.

 

Any politicians who thrives at these levels is almost guaranteed to have skeletons, so who knows, will be interesting.

[weller54]

45 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Asking someone to arrange a takeaway to have on a break from working doesn't make it preplanned event, it means someone was prepared and thought it would be sensible to get food in whilst they worked 

 

But obviously if there is more to this and he did break rules, which I don't think he did, he should resign, and so should Johnson. In fact I'm starting to hope he did break the rules, as I think he would go if he did and it would put Johnson under pressure.

Bozo still wouldn't resign!!...be hasn't got an ounce of integrity or decency in him!!

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Bozo still wouldn't resign!!...be hasn't got an ounce of integrity or decency in him!!

The Tories will clearly have their leadership change nearer to the GE, to give the Conservatives that clean slate polling boost

[bovril]

8 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

Have to agree.  I remember being obsessed with the results of the Scottish independence vote and was so relieved that they voted to remain because i thought without the Scot's Brexit would happen, turns out even with the Scot's Brexit still happened.

 

Now I'm in favour of Ireland and Scotland becoming independent.  Like you i feel the Irish and Scottish are so much more progressive than the English,  I feel a huge disconnect with a lot of the English population.  I had plans to move to Spain also which was scuppered by the Brexit vote which didn't help my overall view.

 

We (the English) seem hell bent in trying to live in some idealistic view of the past, where the rest of the world are moving forwards, I just don't understand why we look back so much, its unhealthy and wont lead to anything good.

 

So I say go for it Ireland and Scotland, it'll pay off in the long run.

This is very far from my experience living and travelling in other countries. Certainly considering recent developments. But I've heard this opinion a lot in England and I think it is ironically quite parochial. You also do Scotland a disservice I think, like a lot of progressive English people. It's quite diverse politically and culturally, in my experience. Maybe in some respects more so than England.

 

I don't know what other languages you speak or where you've lived before but I think there's a tendency amongst monolingual Anglophones to compare the UK almost solely to the US, which is certainly more progressive. But in terms of the rest of Europe, I wouldn't put us even in the top 10 for being either conservative or nostalgic. 

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The Tories will clearly have their leadership change nearer to the GE, to give the Conservatives that clean slate polling boost

Well that's all great for them, but they shouldn't have that option, he should be gone now.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Well that's all great for them, but they shouldn't have that option, he should be gone now.

Oh I agree, was more pointing out the preordained ridiculousness of the situation.

[Facecloth]

18 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Oh I agree, was more pointing out the preordained ridiculousness of the situation.

Ah I read it like that's what you thought they should do, which they shouldn't have the chance too obviously. It's luxury they haven't earned.

[Dames]

2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

The Tories will clearly have their leadership change nearer to the GE, to give the Conservatives that clean slate polling boost

There are still way to many backbenchers bootlicking for a promotion. They all know Johnson rewards loyalty and not competence. Whilst these guys still have that carrot dangled Johnson has the upper hand. If it wasn’t the case he’d be gone already. 

 

I think he goes only if they lose a GE or if he wants to go. 

[Dames]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Asking someone to arrange a takeaway to have on a break from working doesn't make it preplanned event, it means someone was prepared and thought it would be sensible to get food in whilst they worked 

 

But obviously if there is more to this and he did break rules, which I don't think he did, he should resign, and so should Johnson. In fact I'm starting to hope he did break the rules, as I think he would go if he did and it would put Johnson under pressure.

Sadly it wasn’t a break from working. It was literally the last item on the agenda and under the rules and guidance means it was not allowed. They all should have packed up and left once the actual work was finished, not hung around for a curry and a beer.
 

The rules and guidance were clear, he’s broken them. He has to go. If he doesn’t he drags politics even further into the gutter and gives Johnson the argument that Labour are no better. 

 

If he goes Labour can show integrity and offer a genuine alternative. 

[Parafox]

2 hours ago, Dames said:

packed up and left once the actual work was finished

Yes. And Starmer's defence is that he went back to work when clearly he didn't.

[Jon the Hat]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

Yes. And Starmer's defence is that he went back to work when clearly he didn't.

To be fair the agenda is rarely what happens timing wise.  It’s perfectly possible that they were overrunning, the food arrived when booked and they kept working after.  Mind you whoever ordered it seems to have had that intention.

it’s almost like neither this or having a bit of cake in the office were against the rules or should result in anyone losing their job.

[Facecloth]

50 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

To be fair the agenda is rarely what happens timing wise.  It’s perfectly possible that they were overrunning, the food arrived when booked and they kept working after.  Mind you whoever ordered it seems to have had that intention.

it’s almost like neither this or having a bit of cake in the office were against the rules or should result in anyone losing their job.

Well would the agenda actually specify that they returned to work? If it said food at 9pm, end of visit midnight, are we to believe the food took 3 hours to eat? Would it not just note where they needed to be at what time, when the food would arrive etc?

 

And the gathering involving the cake was definitely against the rules, because it was a social event, and if Johnson walked in no lt knowing it was happening, he should have quickly ended it. Also neither should lose their job for actually breaking the rules once, they should lose it for standing in Parliament and lying that they didn't, that's always been the issue here. If you hold your hands up from the start and apologise its much better than trying to lie your way out of it.

[chapero82]

The curry meal isn’t such a bid deal but having a load parties while we couldn’t even see loved ones is!

[Dames]

2 hours ago, chapero82 said:

The curry meal isn’t such a bid deal but having a load parties while we couldn’t even see loved ones is!

The problem is that Starmer has attacked the Conservatives over every minor indiscretion which leaves him absolutely no wiggle room at all.
 

He over done it. The smart play would have been to keep the pressure on over the cost of living and tax rises and come back to the parties and rule breaking when the investigations were finished but instead he did the opposite and largely focused on the parties.

 

In hindsight its a huge political blunder. 

[Jon the Hat]

4 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Well would the agenda actually specify that they returned to work? If it said food at 9pm, end of visit midnight, are we to believe the food took 3 hours to eat? Would it not just note where they needed to be at what time, when the food would arrive etc?

 

And the gathering involving the cake was definitely against the rules, because it was a social event, and if Johnson walked in no lt knowing it was happening, he should have quickly ended it. Also neither should lose their job for actually breaking the rules once, they should lose it for standing in Parliament and lying that they didn't, that's always been the issue here. If you hold your hands up from the start and apologise its much better than trying to lie your way out of it.

Nonsense. A bit of cake in the office is no more a social event than food at the end of a meeting.

[Tommy Fresh]

33 minutes ago, Dames said:

The problem is that Starmer has attacked the Conservatives over every minor indiscretion which leaves him absolutely no wiggle room at all.
 

He over done it. The smart play would have been to keep the pressure on over the cost of living and tax rises and come back to the parties and rule breaking when the investigations were finished but instead he did the opposite and largely focused on the parties.

 

In hindsight its a huge political blunder. 

Starmer would have got battered for missing an 'open goal' if he hadn't of said anything.

[Tommy Fresh]

4 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Nonsense. A bit of cake in the office is no more a social event than food at the end of a meeting.

Wasn't the cake sepcifically organised as a birthday gathering? Regardless of how long he was there or in what context he stumbled in on it. Ordering food for a meeting is clearly different (if we take it at face value)

[kenny]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Wasn't the cake sepcifically organised as a birthday gathering? Regardless of how long he was there or in what context he stumbled in on it. Ordering food for a meeting is clearly different (if we take it at face value)

I think they specifically moved from one room where they were working to a briefing room for a birthday thing for 10 minutes where cake was presented but not eaten.

 

If you hate Boris then this is clearly a massive breach of the rules.

[chapero82]

24 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Wasn't the cake sepcifically organised as a birthday gathering? Regardless of how long he was there or in what context he stumbled in on it. Ordering food for a meeting is clearly different (if we take it at face value)

For me the Cake isn’t such a big issue but all the Christmas parties, parties in the garden and the leaving do’s etc are the ones that deserve his resignation 

[Tommy Fresh]

16 minutes ago, kenny said:

I think they specifically moved from one room where they were working to a briefing room for a birthday thing for 10 minutes where cake was presented but not eaten.

 

If you hate Boris then this is clearly a massive breach of the rules.

The plan was in place though and he then should have just shut it down, add in all the other parties etc.

[Foxdiamond]

14 hours ago, weller54 said:

Bozo still wouldn't resign!!...be hasn't got an ounce of integrity or decency in him!!

Well if the sitting PM won't resign then why should anybody else. The DM is an awful Tory rag. 

[StanSP]

Who's the best alternative if Starmer goes? 

[Tommy Fresh]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Who's the best alternative if Starmer goes? 

Think I've seen odds previously that Burnham would be favourite, not sure how he'd get on down South though.

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Think I've seen odds previously that Burnham would be favourite, not sure how he'd get on down South though.

I wouldn't mind him. 

[Lionator]

10 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Think I've seen odds previously that Burnham would be favourite, not sure how he'd get on down South though.

He’s not currently an MP so it won’t be him. I’d put my money on Yvette Cooper most likely.