The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Fazzer 7]

2 hours ago, Captain... said:

And this is the smart one of the 2? Literally every single degree increases earning potential, because all graduate trainee schemes which are a pathway to greater earning potential, require a degree, any degree is valid, there is often a requirement on a 2:1 or better but ANY degree will do. So many jobs have the requirement of a degree, it doesn't matter what in. Some of those that do require specific qualifications, like accountancy, have courses and programs to bring anyone with any degree up to speed. Obviously there are some professions that require a specific degree but the vast majority don't they just need a degree of any kind.

But why do you now need a degree to become a nurse or a police constable. Answer, you don’t. You never used to and you don’t now. 

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, Dames said:

This Tory Leadership contest is clearly aimed at appeasing wealthy but for some reason angry pensioners. 

 

Its giving Labour a lot of ammunition leading into the next General Election. 

Literally all Starmer needs to do is play that Sunak clip over and over. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Literally all Starmer needs to do is play that Sunak clip over and over. 

And I fear they still won't get elected.

[bovril]

13 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Literally all Starmer needs to do is play that Sunak clip over and over. 

Let's defund poor areas or Let's Keep Brexit Safe? 

[Robo61]

2 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

But why do you now need a degree to become a nurse or a police constable. Answer, you don’t. You never used to and you don’t now. 

You do know that nursing has changed enormously for the better over the last 100 years as human race has learned more about the human body/condition.  I would not want anyone advising me on my health who has not at the very least done the training to fully understand what we know now and I suspect that requires are least degree level learning. 

[nnfox]

3 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

But why do you now need a degree to become a nurse or a police constable. Answer, you don’t. You never used to and you don’t now. 

I agree to an extent.  With policing, the degree angle is fairly new.  It used to be the case that anyone could apply from any walk of life with minimal academic qualifications but an aptitude to be a good communicator and decision maker.  On starting the job, new recruits would have around 6 months intensive training followed by another 18 months of close supervision.  To save all that expense (the official line being that policing is more complex now than it ever has been before so a degree is needed), people are now encouraged to go to uni for 3 years to do the same training whilst being a volunteer in their spare time.  The theory being that they can then apply for the job and hit the ground running, having funded their training themselves at great personal cost. 

 

An unintended consequence (or maybe intended?) is that recruits are now mainly young and mainly white.  It's much more difficult now for the mature career changer with life experience to pursue a policing career.

[Captain...]

4 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

But why do you now need a degree to become a nurse or a police constable. Answer, you don’t. You never used to and you don’t now. 

Dunno, but that's not what he's saying. He's basically playing up to the students are a bunch of work shy scroungers trope and most university degrees are not worth the paper they are printed on. As with most of what both candidates are saying, it's just playing to the gallery. All that will happen if they get rid of media studies, as an example "workshy" degree. All the "workshy" students will just do something else. I'm all in favour of re-working the higher education approach but this is just more meaningless pandering to the minority that can elect the next PM.

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

And I fear they still won't get elected.

 

 

 

[SpacedX]

2 hours ago, Robo61 said:

You do know that nursing has changed enormously for the better over the last 100 years as human race has learned more about the human body/condition.  I would not want anyone advising me on my health who has not at the very least done the training to fully understand what we know now and I suspect that requires are least degree level learning. 

I do understand where you were coming from, but we had dedicated nursing colleges for that and two tier SEN or SRN training. Many nurses-elect that have a genuine calling and the qualities, attributes and values that accord with the NHS constitution find the notion of a degree both abasing and impossible to fund. Since the government withdrew and limited NHS bursaries, many are unable to even countenance a three year degree which is one of the reasons that we have a recruitment crisis in the profession. Nursing Apprenticeships have definitely been a step forward though. 

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

And I fear they still won't get elected.

The shit will hit the fan soon. If the Conservatives are are still polling much above 30% at that point then it might be best to start arranging exit plans

[Daggers]

Honestly, I give up if anyone is thick enough to reckon Truss would be a better PM.

 

It's simply frightening how stupid people can be.

 

 

 

[Free Falling Foxes]

26 minutes ago, Daggers said:

 

 

 

That's the voting intentions now, it could be very different come the next election.

I do hope we have a change in government after the next GE, I really do but the fickle nature of the general public, the influencing power of the press and Labour's unfortunate ability to shoot itself in the foot, concern me.

[RoboFox]

I had to double check this wasn't a parody account.

 

Nothing says "levelling up" quite like a billionaire literally shredding consumer, worker and welfare protections and environmental regulations 

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

On 06/08/2022 at 20:48, kenny said:

When I drive Google typically redirects me around the worst traffic so it's been a while since I got stuck. Not to mention post COVID traffic is still much better than it used to be.

 

My worst experience is being on the last train and being ushered off at MK as the next driver didn't show up. The Mrs had to come and collect me. That and the trains being cancelled out of London or Birmingham so you end up with 3 trains of people crammed into one.

 

I'd rather use public transport given the choice, it's just that it often isn't really a choice.

 

We had a visit to organise the other day  for a chap in Norwich to Cornwall. Turned out the quickest and cheapest was 3 flights as opposed to driving or the train.

 

Anyway, back on topic. Give them 25% and put up the train fairs to pay for it.

Sorry you had a bad experience, sometimes it happens, maybe the driver received some bad news, maybe he found out that morning that someone he knew passed away, maybe he was stuck in traffic. Sometimes the worst thing a person can do in that situation is come into work, if he's got things on his mind he shouldn't be in charge of hundreds of lives. The TOC should have a driver spare but obviously they didn't. However, that's absolutely nothing to do with Network Rail, your anger should be aimed towards the TOC who caused you this issue whilst making millions in profits for their shareholders.

 

On 06/08/2022 at 22:53, kenny said:

They are already priced out. And put off by the unreliability.

 

Once something is too expensive, too expensive plus 25% is still too expensive.

 

You didn't ask but I'll answer anyway. I would fully automate the railway and hugely scale back on staff. The ones needed to remain would be be paid much more but the overall system would be cheaper and more efficient. The current model is hugely out of date and out of touch.

Do you think by cutting staff and hugely scaling back on them (which means hugely scaling back on maintenance and fault response times) is going to make the railway more reliable?

 

Fully automating the railway has been looked at numerous times, it's too expensive for what it provides and it's far far too far away for us to consider at the moment. Our equipment and technology in Leicestershire & Oakham is over 60 years old in some places.

 

Do you think train fares are directly related to railway staff wages? Network Rail is non profit and the train fares go to the TOCs, nothing to do with us.

 

We haven't had a payrise for 3 years, has the price of train tickets stayed the same during that time? Nope.

 

 

The end game here isn't to come to an agreement for Grant Shapps, he's deliberately not releasing the budget for a pay rise, whilst attacking our T&Cs, increase our pension age, making loads of us redundant, changing our contracts, it's essentially fire & re-hire, just like P&O. We're being forced into a corner, being forced to make a stand or just be walked over and give up all the perks of our job. We've got lads earning 23k a year who are going on strike in order to help a better future for everyone involved in the railway, which shows just how much it means to them when times are hard with the currently financial situation.

 

With regards to the 'if you don't like go and find a better job' comments, some lads have been on years, it's all they know and it's a job we take pride in and we care about. Rather than giving up and finding something else, we want to fight for not only the generation that are in the job atm but the next couple that are going to come through. We might lose eventually, but we're not going down without a fight, this is our job, our careers, our future and our lives, if the ***** in Government want to try and take that away from us then we're going to fight it all the way.

[rachhere]

23 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

I had to double check this wasn't a parody account.

 

Nothing says "levelling up" quite like a billionaire literally shredding consumer, worker and welfare protections and environmental regulations 

 

 

That's one of the worst things I have ever seen... it's also worrying. 

[Foxdiamond]

18 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Sorry you had a bad experience, sometimes it happens, maybe the driver received some bad news, maybe he found out that morning that someone he knew passed away, maybe he was stuck in traffic. Sometimes the worst thing a person can do in that situation is come into work, if he's got things on his mind he shouldn't be in charge of hundreds of lives. The TOC should have a driver spare but obviously they didn't. However, that's absolutely nothing to do with Network Rail, your anger should be aimed towards the TOC who caused you this issue whilst making millions in profits for their shareholders.

 

Do you think by cutting staff and hugely scaling back on them (which means hugely scaling back on maintenance and fault response times) is going to make the railway more reliable?

 

Fully automating the railway has been looked at numerous times, it's too expensive for what it provides and it's far far too far away for us to consider at the moment. Our equipment and technology in Leicestershire & Oakham is over 60 years old in some places.

 

Do you think train fares are directly related to railway staff wages? Network Rail is non profit and the train fares go to the TOCs, nothing to do with us.

 

We haven't had a payrise for 3 years, has the price of train tickets stayed the same during that time? Nope.

 

 

The end game here isn't to come to an agreement for Grant Shapps, he's deliberately not releasing the budget for a pay rise, whilst attacking our T&Cs, increase our pension age, making loads of us redundant, changing our contracts, it's essentially fire & re-hire, just like P&O. We're being forced into a corner, being forced to make a stand or just be walked over and give up all the perks of our job. We've got lads earning 23k a year who are going on strike in order to help a better future for everyone involved in the railway, which shows just how much it means to them when times are hard with the currently financial situation.

 

With regards to the 'if you don't like go and find a better job' comments, some lads have been on years, it's all they know and it's a job we take pride in and we care about. Rather than giving up and finding something else, we want to fight for not only the generation that are in the job atm but the next couple that are going to come through. We might lose eventually, but we're not going down without a fight, this is our job, our careers, our future and our lives, if the ***** in Government want to try and take that away from us then we're going to fight it all the way.

Thank you and good luck. I keep hearing from opponents of the workers about job cuts are needed. But is it not correct that the whole system depends on overtime.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

2 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Thank you and good luck. I keep hearing from opponents of the workers about job cuts are needed. But is it not correct that the whole system depends on overtime.

I can't speak specifically for other departments and depots, but in mine, we have 18 job positions and there are currently 14 of us. Once you add in sickness, annual leave and the odd couple of lads who don't want to do overtime, there's not many of us left.

 

I did 97 overtime shifts last year, as well as all my normal shifts. I'm not some sort of hero, I only did it because of COVID and I was saving every single penny on a house deposit so it helped me. It also benefits the company in the fact that they don't have to hire someone else, as that's another salary, another pension pot, another lot of PPE they have to buy, more training to pay for etc. But we need to more away from the overtime and hire more staff, that's the sad reality of the situation, but instead of doing that they're going to reduce a lot of the maintenance from 3 months to yearly.

 

We usually have 2 lads (used to be 3 but they haven't filled the jobs where lads have left/retired so we don't have the staff to do so anymore) covering our whole patch, which is across the whole of Leicestershire - Moira, Oakham, Kettering, Hinckley and everything inbetween.

 

In my few short years in this industry I've never seen it ran into the ground so much, something needs to change soon or it's going to collapse.

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, bovril said:

Let's defund poor areas or Let's Keep Brexit Safe? 

Hadn't seen his Brexit one till just now. 

[Brizzle Fox]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Honestly, I give up if anyone is thick enough to reckon Truss would be a better PM.

 

It's simply frightening how stupid people can be.

 

 

 

I've always thought people should have to take an IQ test before they are allowed to vote tbqh. 

 

Brexit was my proof of concept for this theory which I believe categorically proved the point.

 

Then again I'm a smug, left of centre, educated, successful middle class willy puller who loves / hates myself,  so what do I know.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Brizzle Fox said:

I've always thought people should have to take an IQ test before they are allowed to vote tbqh. 

 

Brexit was my proof of concept for this theory which I believe categorically proved the point.

 

Then again I'm a smug, left of centre, educated, successful middle class willy puller who loves / hates myself,  so what do I know.

tbf the remain campaign was very weak and people were quite apathetic towards the EU. I was living in the EU at the time and it was all quite surreal as Britain drifted so obviously towards Brexit and without anyone putting up much of a fight. Take the fact that the majority of Brits living in the EU are actually working - how often was that mentioned compared to how often sunburned gammon in the costa del crime got wheeled out?

 

The problem in the UK isn't so much low IQ but apathy and a lack of understanding about the outside world which is perhaps down to our parochialism, our language being dominant, and complacency from living in a rich country. I also think people in the UK - more than any other country including even the US - see politics in terms of attacking at the 'other side' or to simply broadcast their own virtuousness, not to improve society. This was evident in the aforementioned Brexit arguments - I even remember Brexiters saying we needed to leave the EU because we'd betrayed non-white people in the Commonwealth. I feel that only in Britain could such an argument be put forward. 

[Dunge]

1 hour ago, Brizzle Fox said:

I've always thought people should have to take an IQ test before they are allowed to vote tbqh. 

 

Brexit was my proof of concept for this theory which I believe categorically proved the point.

 

Then again I'm a smug, left of centre, educated, successful middle class willy puller who loves / hates myself,  so what do I know.

I think that’s a very dangerous path to take, and will result in some Tommy Robinson-esque person whipping up loads of people by telling them that they’re being treated as second-class citizens in their own country by socialist elites.

 

Worse still, he’d be right.

[Daggers]

14 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think that’s a very dangerous path to take, and will result in some Tommy Robinson-esque person whipping up loads of people by telling them that they’re being treated as second-class citizens in their own country by socialist elites.

 

Worse still, he’d be right.

At the same time I’d institute an exam in order to vote, I’d also lock the likes of TR away for life. 
 

Democracy is completely broken, it doesn’t function, it’s been warped beyond recognition by those with wealth and influence. 
 

It’s either me or some fascist. I think you’d prefer me - everyone would get free Jelly Babies on Jelly Baby Wednesday. 

[Brizzle Fox]

28 minutes ago, bovril said:

tbf the remain campaign was very weak and people were quite apathetic towards the EU. I was living in the EU at the time and it was all quite surreal as Britain drifted so obviously towards Brexit and without anyone putting up much of a fight. Take the fact that the majority of Brits living in the EU are actually working - how often was that mentioned compared to how often sunburned gammon in the costa del crime got wheeled out?

 

The problem in the UK isn't so much low IQ but apathy and a lack of understanding about the outside world which is perhaps down to our parochialism, our language being dominant, and complacency from living in a rich country. I also think people in the UK - more than any other country including even the US - see politics in terms of attacking at the 'other side' or to simply broadcast their own virtuousness, not to improve society. This was evident in the aforementioned Brexit arguments - I even remember Brexiters saying we needed to leave the EU because we'd betrayed non-white people in the Commonwealth. I feel that only in Britain could such an argument be put forward. 

Oh I totally agree with you around apathy and of course my previous post was (slightly) tongue in cheek.

 

The amount of people who were distraught at the result but couldn't be bothered to vote was crazy. 

 

I even knew a couple of people who voted leave even though they thought the opposite to "give Cameron a bloody nose " never expecting Leave to win.

 

Anyway I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the fact that Liz Truss is going to be PM just shows what a state politics are in, in this country.  Surely that transcends left to right, leave to remain...

 

 

[Dunge]

6 minutes ago, Daggers said:

At the same time I’d institute an exam in order to vote, I’d also lock the likes of TR away for life. 
 

Democracy is completely broken, it doesn’t function, it’s been warped beyond recognition by those with wealth and influence. 
 

It’s either me or some fascist. I think you’d prefer me - everyone would get free Jelly Babies on Jelly Baby Wednesday. 

To be fair, I could vote for Jelly Baby Wednesdays. Although I might suggest an amendment to”JB Wednesdays”, with a choice of babies or beans.