The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I don’t think it’s inherently a bad thing. Taking Christianity for example - I don’t want to sidetrack here onto belief in God/Jesus, etc., but the message portrayed in the Gospels is very naturally left wing. Love thy neighbour, sharing food so 5000 could eat, the tale of the Good Samaritan, and more. It’s a good message to aspire to, similar to John Lennon’s Imagine, which ironically then invites us to imagine no religion and everyone living in peace.

 

The problem as far as I see is: “Life’s not that simple”. Imagine for a moment coming across a room with a fire in it, seeing your child in one corner and another random child in another; you can only save one, which do you save? An extreme example maybe, but I raise it to illustrate a point that we are emotional creatures making emotional decisions. When the chips are down, we help our own first. The question then becomes one of where we draw the line between helping ourselves, those close to us and wider society.

 

Far left ideology would describe this as flawed, either that we shouldn’t be prioritising “our own” at all, or that the line be drawn only after the most exceptional of circumstances. But then other problems appear: Why should you dedicate yourself to helping society, when your neighbour is doing everything they can to help themselves and their family, such that their child gets advantages in life that yours doesn’t? Can you accept that emotional burden? Can your child? Also, if everyone is prioritised equally, why should you endeavour to work hard when others are getting the same and an easy life with it. Does that make you feel stupid in comparison or proud?
You could seek to control all this through governance, which of course then leads away from liberty and towards authoritarian communism. So you then lose freedom. Is that a good thing? (It isn’t.)

 

None of this is to say that I’m supporting hard right policies - I’m not. Going too far the other way brings its own problems and a society that fails to provide for our human needs and emotions in different ways. I find the hard left to be preachy and naïve. I also find the hard right to be preachy and naïve. So to me it’s a question of balance, and we may draw the line in different places but I don’t necessarily see anything wrong in that because we all have different needs, desires and emotions. And to lean into @BlueSi13’s post, echo chambers on either side tend to move away from balance, or even discussion that there should be balance. It doesn’t actually matter whether the echo chamber is left wing or right wing, the problem is whether it’s an echo chamber.

This is fair but I wanted to chip in on the bolded.

 

With some issues, helping the wider part of society helps you and yours too in the long run, but some people can't or won't make that connection, for one of or many various reasons. Of course empathy very often doesn't extend beyond our own line of sight, but sometimes that is a flaw - and dare I say, a critical one.

 

I can't see how we get around that in the places where it is needed, but we do have to.

[Daggers]

 

[bovril]

8 minutes ago, Daggers said:

 

Oh God not RS Archer. Fan fiction for remainers

[Strokes]

7 hours ago, Dunge said:

I don’t think it’s inherently a bad thing. Taking Christianity for example - I don’t want to sidetrack here onto belief in God/Jesus, etc., but the message portrayed in the Gospels is very naturally left wing. Love thy neighbour, sharing food so 5000 could eat, the tale of the Good Samaritan, and more. It’s a good message to aspire to, similar to John Lennon’s Imagine, which ironically then invites us to imagine no religion and everyone living in peace.

 

The problem as far as I see is: “Life’s not that simple”. Imagine for a moment coming across a room with a fire in it, seeing your child in one corner and another random child in another; you can only save one, which do you save? An extreme example maybe, but I raise it to illustrate a point that we are emotional creatures making emotional decisions. When the chips are down, we help our own first. The question then becomes one of where we draw the line between helping ourselves, those close to us and wider society.

 

Far left ideology would describe this as flawed, either that we shouldn’t be prioritising “our own” at all, or that the line be drawn only after the most exceptional of circumstances. But then other problems appear: Why should you dedicate yourself to helping society, when your neighbour is doing everything they can to help themselves and their family, such that their child gets advantages in life that yours doesn’t? Can you accept that emotional burden? Can your child? Also, if everyone is prioritised equally, why should you endeavour to work hard when others are getting the same and an easy life with it. Does that make you feel stupid in comparison or proud?
You could seek to control all this through governance, which of course then leads away from liberty and towards authoritarian communism. So you then lose freedom. Is that a good thing? (It isn’t.)

 

None of this is to say that I’m supporting hard right policies - I’m not. Going too far the other way brings its own problems and a society that fails to provide for our human needs and emotions in different ways. I find the hard left to be preachy and naïve. I also find the hard right to be preachy and naïve. So to me it’s a question of balance, and we may draw the line in different places but I don’t necessarily see anything wrong in that because we all have different needs, desires and emotions. And to lean into @BlueSi13’s post, echo chambers on either side tend to move away from balance, or even discussion that there should be balance. It doesn’t actually matter whether the echo chamber is left wing or right wing, the problem is whether it’s an echo chamber.

I bet it was a Tory that lit the fire though 

[Fightforever]

On 13/08/2022 at 06:14, Daggers said:

He had the temerity (and smirk) to suggest the fuel crisis was all down to Gordon Brown not investing in atomic, yesterday. There’ll be people believing that. I could happily embed a machete in his skull. There’s not a sentence he utters that doesn’t make me wish for explosives or a sharp object. 

Intrest rates for loans were at record lows for the years they were in power before Covid. If they weren't obssessed with the national defecit they could have invested in so much infrastructure but thanks to their austerity and cuts we have nothing. Then he has the nerve to blame Gordon Brown.

[ozleicester]

The recently voted out tory Aust PM.... has just been discovered to have secretly made himself several other ministries (health minister etc) while the pandemic was happening.   the level of corruption is gobsmacking

[Lionator]

7 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The recently voted out tory Aust PM.... has just been discovered to have secretly made himself several other ministries (health minister etc) while the pandemic was happening.   the level of corruption is gobsmacking

That sounds familiar lol. 

[Lionator]

Starmer has done well with the energy policy plus saying that Labour would scrap the Rwandan asylum seeker policy. 
 

Interestingly despite this being exactly what Owen Jones wants, his Twitter has been very quiet about this, only retweeting an account called Leninology stating that it didn’t go far enough. Then the Labour left wonder why they haven’t been taken seriously enough. 

[Voll Blau]

12 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Starmer has done well with the energy policy plus saying that Labour would scrap the Rwandan asylum seeker policy. 
 

Interestingly despite this being exactly what Owen Jones wants, his Twitter has been very quiet about this, only retweeting an account called Leninology stating that it didn’t go far enough. Then the Labour left wonder why they haven’t been taken seriously enough. 

I do wish that they'd communicated all this a little bit quicker, but at the end of the day I guess they're judging (hopefully rightly) that the electorate want a Labour Party that actually takes the time to do its sums and come up with a workable plan that an actual government would come up with, rather than a party that spends its time all over the media screeching the bleeding obvious that something, anything needs to be done to address this.

[Foxdiamond]

See Avanti West Coast cutting timetable due to lack of staff. They are trying to blame drivers for not working overtime. Why the hell should drivers be expected to work overtime. Interesting at a time when train companies want to cut staff. Wonder what Grant Shapps thinks. Does this prove that the industry is under rather than overstaffed.

[Fazzer 7]

16 hours ago, Lionator said:

Starmer has done well with the energy policy plus saying that Labour would scrap the Rwandan asylum seeker policy. 
 

Interestingly despite this being exactly what Owen Jones wants, his Twitter has been very quiet about this, only retweeting an account called Leninology stating that it didn’t go far enough. Then the Labour left wonder why they haven’t been taken seriously enough. 

The Rwandan scheme doesn’t need scrapping it will never get off the ground. 

[Daggers]

Meanwhile, in the land of privatised monopolies…

 

 

 

[Sampson]

42 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

The Rwandan scheme doesn’t need scrapping it will never get off the ground. 

Said it several times before on here, but I don’t think it was ever designed to get off the ground.

 

Tories know anti-immigrant rhetoric whips up support, they create a policy that they know is never likely to be legal. Now they can say “we’re trying to do something about immigration but the lefty lawyers and European Courts are stopping us”

 

It’s a false flag policy. Create a policy that is never going to happen, solely for the purpose to whip up hate against the groups that stop it.

[General Smuts]

On 11/08/2022 at 14:45, Lionator said:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14687941221096600

Now I can sleep at night. 

[Finnegan]

On 14/08/2022 at 01:36, BlueSi13 said:

this thread is basically a hysterical left wing echo chamber

 

 

Christ. 

[Fazzer 7]

3 hours ago, Sampson said:

Said it several times before on here, but I don’t think it was ever designed to get off the ground.

 

Tories know anti-immigrant rhetoric whips up support, they create a policy that they know is never likely to be legal. Now they can say “we’re trying to do something about immigration but the lefty lawyers and European Courts are stopping us”

 

It’s a false flag policy. Create a policy that is never going to happen, solely for the purpose to whip up hate against the groups that stop it.

Next to the cost of living crisis, and NHS waiting list, the illegal immigration issue is or should be the incoming PM’s top priority imo. Simply because it’s unsustainable. The cost now is estimated at 5 million a day and growing. Ultimately where are they going to live, they’re predominantly young men, and now it transpires that up to 4/10 are Albanians who surely can’t be fleeing persecution. Didn’t the Tory government promise to reduce net migration to the 10’s of thousands. Currently it’s running at over 200k. 

[urban.spaceman]

9 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Next to the cost of living crisis, and NHS waiting list, the illegal immigration issue is or should be the incoming PM’s top priority imo. Simply because it’s unsustainable. The cost now is estimated at 5 million a day and growing. Ultimately where are they going to live, they’re predominantly young men, and now it transpires that up to 4/10 are Albanians who surely can’t be fleeing persecution. Didn’t the Tory government promise to reduce net migration to the 10’s of thousands. Currently it’s running at over 200k. 

It's almost as if they can't be trusted on a single thing they've ever said.

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/aug/16/cost-of-living-crisis-covid-vaccine-conservative-leadership-liz-truss-rishi-sunak?page=with:block-62fb52ef8f08044fa2af717d

 

LBC’s Nick Ferrari said: “A lot of people saying they’re so concerned about energy prices, they won’t be able to turn the gas up and it is feared more people will die than is usual.”

Throup responded:

'Well, that is a concern, it’s something that we’ve taken into consideration when we looked at our vaccination programmes.

We are rolling out the Covid jab, we’re also rolling out the flu jab, providing as much protection as we can to those who are most vulnerable, and where possible will be co-administrating the flu and the Covid jab so people can have both jabs at one go.

And I think if people are reassured about their own health, then it helps to take the pressure off some of the other concerns that they may have.

And yes, you’re right, people who perhaps don’t heat their homes as much will be more vulnerable. And that’s why, as I say, we’re putting that ring of protection around the most vulnerable with our vaccine programme.'

 

 

 

They literally have zero clue, it's one answer (vaccine in this case) and any question has to be answered by relating it back to their original topic. Don't worry you can't heat your home this winter, but you've been vaccinated so you'll die of cold or starvation rather than COVID, cheers.

[Jon the Hat]

On 15/08/2022 at 16:49, ozleicester said:

The recently voted out tory Aust PM.... has just been discovered to have secretly made himself several other ministries (health minister etc) while the pandemic was happening.   the level of corruption is gobsmacking

I’m not sure why this is an issue to be honest. He was co-minister in case a key minister was very sick with Covid.  As PM he had the power to tell those ministers what to do anyway no?

[ozleicester]

42 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I’m not sure why this is an issue to be honest. He was co-minister in case a key minister was very sick with Covid.  As PM he had the power to tell those ministers what to do anyway no?

 you cant see a problem with a PM secretly giving himself power over 6 ministries without telling the public... or his own party members?

He then used that power to overrule some decisions made by the ministers... the PM is not the all powerful decision maker, not a king or dictator, he is supposed to be a member of a ruling party with a full ministry and cabinet.

I mean seriously. 

Edited 16 August 2022 by ozleicester

[Fazzer 7]

Let’s hope we don’t go to war until ‘targets’are met then.  Is this why the Red Arrow’s are only a 7 ship of late. 
https://news.sky.com/story/raf-pauses-job-offers-for-white-men-to-meet-impossible-diversity-targets-12674409

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Corky]

Doing her best for are people.

 

Another thing misrepresented by people taking it out of context.

[Parafox]

40 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Corky said:

Doing her best for are people.

 

Another thing misrepresented by people taking it out of context.

 

She really does come across as a hateful, nasty piece of work. Not far removed from Thatcher, who she is a massive admirer of. No wonder the Tories like her. I can imagine her being a very difficult person to work with or to challenge. Uncompassionate, detached from people, only sees the world from her own personal and political ideological perspective, disregards the needs of others less able to make a living. Considers those in need of benefits as lazy scroungers (and I will say there are those amongst us, but not all by far). Thinks tax cuts will benefit those earning the least.

Like Thatcher.

Please not again...

Edited 16 August 2022 by Parafox

[Wymsey]

She'd be a poor leader in any line of business, requiring strong emphatic and leadership skills, consisting of staff.

 

Can imagine her being the type who would pressurise staff to do something for her own gain and demotivate the team.

Edited 16 August 2022 by Wymsey