The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, Corky said:

Doing her best for are people.

 

Another thing misrepresented by people taking it out of context.

 

It's really not taken out of context - have you listened to the recording? I'm not going to pretend it's outrageous or anything but she is clearly talking shite.

Edited 16 August 2022 by ealingfox

[Corky]

1 hour ago, ealingfox said:

 

It's really not taken out of context - have you listened to the recording? I'm not going to pretend it's outrageous or anything but she is clearly talking shite.

My comment was sarcastic.

 

Remarkable now these MPs claim to love the country but seemingly despise most of the population.

[urban.spaceman]

10 minutes ago, Corky said:

My comment was sarcastic.

 

Remarkable now these MPs claim to love the country but seemingly despise most of the population.

I'd love someone to ask her at the next hustings "were you always this sinister or did that start when you joined the Tories?"

[Guest Kopfkino]

Thing is she’s got it right and then wrong. We’ve got a huge productivity problem in this country for various reasons which isn’t an easy fix.

 

But ‘graft’ is literally the opposite of what we need - we need to graft less cos that mean we were doing more with less. Ingenuity and sensible public policy in a variety of arenas is more what we need.

 

So in the general issue of productivity problem she’s right and it has to be the focus of anyone wanting to drive economic growth but then everything else she says just undermines that very point.

[Daggers]

7 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Thing is she’s got it right and then wrong. We’ve got a huge productivity problem in this country for various reasons which isn’t an easy fix.

 

But ‘graft’ is literally the opposite of what we need - we need to graft less cos that mean we were doing more with less. Ingenuity and sensible public policy in a variety of arenas is more what we need.

 

So in the general issue of productivity problem she’s right and it has to be the focus of anyone wanting to drive economic growth but then everything else she says just undermines that very point.

Ima calling bullshit on this, sorry. 
 

Facts and shit: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02791/

[weller54]

12 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

 

She really does come across as a hateful, nasty piece of work. Not far removed from Thatcher, who she is a massive admirer of. No wonder the Tories like her. I can imagine her being a very difficult person to work with or to challenge. Uncompassionate, detached from people, only sees the world from her own personal and political ideological perspective, disregards the needs of others less able to make a living. Considers those in need of benefits as lazy scroungers (and I will say there are those amongst us, but not all by far). Thinks tax cuts will benefit those earning the least.

Like Thatcher.

Please not again...

This lady's not for gurning...

[Lionator]

16 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Let’s hope we don’t go to war until ‘targets’are met then.  Is this why the Red Arrow’s are only a 7 ship of late. 
https://news.sky.com/story/raf-pauses-job-offers-for-white-men-to-meet-impossible-diversity-targets-12674409

Would like to know more about this. It’s obviously illegal so I’m not sure it would ever happen. 

[Lionator]

Truss is a horror. She’s going to crash and burn over the winter. 

[Jon the Hat]

18 hours ago, ozleicester said:

 you cant see a problem with a PM secretly giving himself power over 6 ministries without telling the public... or his own party members?

He then used that power to overrule some decisions made by the ministers... the PM is not the all powerful decision maker, not a king or dictator, he is supposed to be a member of a ruling party with a full ministry and cabinet.

I mean seriously. 

Who appoints the ministers? Seems a bit overblown to me.  It’s not ideal I agree, but I think had it done by a trusted PM no one would bat an eyelid.  

[ozleicester]

31 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Who appoints the ministers? Seems a bit overblown to me.  It’s not ideal I agree, but I think had it done by a trusted PM no one would bat an eyelid.  

Not seeing why its a big deal.. is part of why its a big deal.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Ima calling bullshit on this, sorry. 
 

Facts and shit: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02791/

 

So, UK productivity stagnant and well behind US, France and Germany but ahead of Italy, Canada and Japan.

 

Would be interesting to see some decent analysis of this if anyone has any links (I don't have time to search in the next few days).

I could make a few educated guesses but don't want to end up with egg on my face, chatting shit....

 

 

Edited 17 August 2022 by Alf Bentley

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Truss is a horror. She’s going to crash and burn over the winter. 

Hopefully we can harness that for energy

[Alf Bentley]

Decent little article by Robert Reich: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/16/liz-cheney-politicians-stand-by-principles

 

It's mainly about US politics and the deselection of Liz Cheney by the Republicans for opposing Trump.

 

But the dilemma of principle v. compromise is just as relevant to UK politics: e.g. must any party seeking power claim that it will cut taxes and yet improve public services, as that's what voters want to hear?

It's particularly relevant to Labour's approach to policy announcements in the next 2 years....

 

"I call this the Dick Morris paradox. In early 1996, Bill and Hillary Clinton summoned pollster Dick Morris to the White House to make sure Bill Clinton would be re-elected. Morris’s advice to Clinton was to move to the center (“triangulate”) and say nothing in his re-election campaign except that the economy was terrific and would be even better in the second term. Whenever I ran into Morris slithering around the West Wing, I suggested he urge Clinton to advance some policies for the second term’s agenda – a hike in the minimum wage, universal pre-K, paid family leave, Medicare for all. Morris’s invariable response: “If Clinton pushes any of these, there won’t be a second term.” I said there was no point in having a second term without an agenda to do something important in the second term. He argued back that there was no use having an agenda without a second term. But if the only way to get or keep power is to say nothing to the public about what you believe or intend to achieve, or to mislead the public, what’s the point of having power? To Morris and most other political operatives, this question makes no sense. Politics is about getting and keeping power. Principles have nothing to do with it. To Dick Morris operatives, politicians have a responsibility to mirror whatever the public wants or believes. But what if the public has been lied to by a conman who tells them the last election was stolen? What if he has cynically exploited their bigotry, ignorance or distrust?"

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Who appoints the ministers? Seems a bit overblown to me.  It’s not ideal I agree, but I think had it done by a trusted PM no one would bat an eyelid.  

It may seem counterintuitive, but ministers have legal powers the prime minister doesn’t. The home affairs minister can deport foreigners. The health minister can declare biosecurity emergencies, which gives him or her the power to impose lockdowns. The treasurer can veto foreign investment.

None of these powers require the approval of the cabinet, which the prime minister chairs. Legally, a minister doesn’t have to take orders from the prime minister, although prime ministers can fire ministers at will.

This corrupt dickwad Trump wannabe wanted to be a dictator and the greedy mindless drones who vote conservative just go along with it

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

So, UK productivity stagnant...

 

 

 

[Number 6]

On 12/08/2022 at 12:26, RoboFox said:

I just can't get my head around people looking at the last 12 years of devastating Tory austerity, a failed Brexit, NHS crises, care crises, the decimation of public services, an out-of-control housing market, the deadly mishandling of the pandemic and staggering amounts of public money, endless sleaze, corruption, and scandals, the shredding of workers' rights, a nosediving economy, nosediving standard of living, the longest wage squeeze in 200 years, the and an impending socio-economic energy crisis that they're refusing to handle...  

 

...And going "yeah, I want more of that" 

This is one thing I'm always confused about. There seems to be a defence of "difficult conditions" but why are we only judging the tories on a flat track? Yes conditions have been difficult but they've clearly not handled them well and have thrown sanctions on ourselves just to add fuel to the fire. Many chickens are coming home to roost at the same time and the winter is going to be properly grim.

 

 

On 12/08/2022 at 12:47, urban.spaceman said:

I hesitate to be critical of people who think differently from me but some of these creatures shouldn't be allowed out the ****ing house let alone be able to vote.

 

 

I think it's important for the left side of politics to try and refrain from slinging insults at these people because they become more defensive and entrenched, but you can clearly see from the video that some sort of stockholm syndrome has set in. All the usual buzzwords thrown in. The right wing press have got them on strings. 

 

 

On 15/08/2022 at 15:26, Lionator said:

Starmer has done well with the energy policy plus saying that Labour would scrap the Rwandan asylum seeker policy. 
 

Interestingly despite this being exactly what Owen Jones wants, his Twitter has been very quiet about this, only retweeting an account called Leninology stating that it didn’t go far enough. Then the Labour left wonder why they haven’t been taken seriously enough. 

And this is perhaps why the tories keep winning in spite of being awful...because when polling day comes round many tories will pinch their nose and tick the tory box again. I think this is why that video throws up words like 'loyalty'. They'll all fall in line but the left will fracture. I think there have been signs of Starmer being more open to a bit of a pact in certain areas - albeit not formally. I really hope this is the case, because short term they really need to focus on being pragmatic to get a win. Long term we need PR.

[taupe]

11 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

And this is perhaps why the tories keep winning in spite of being awful...because when polling day comes round many tories will pinch their nose and tick the tory box again. I think this is why that video throws up words like 'loyalty'. They'll all fall in line but the left will fracture. 

Credit it where it's due (if it is indeed credit), I do think the Tories are good at sticking together when it counts, at playing down their internal differences and getting behind whoever the elected leader is. I'm not saying there aren't fractions but nobody squabbles internally quite like the left - arguing over the right shade of red whilst perhaps what  might be more effective is to concentrate on it not being blue.

[leicsmac]

Just now, taupe said:

Credit it where it's due (if it is indeed credit), I do think the Tories are good at sticking together when it counts, at playing down their internal differences and getting behind whoever the elected leader is. I'm not saying there aren't fractions but nobody squabbles internally quite like the left - arguing over the right shade of red whilst perhaps what  might be more effective is to concentrate on it not being blue.

That's seen in plenty of other countries too, it's one of the main reasons Trump won in 2016.

 

"The inability of the left to distinguish between an imperfect ally and an enemy is the height of privilege and will be our downfall."

[Dames]

There's a reason that Boris' most ardent outriders are backing Truss.

 

They know she'll be out within a year and Boris can ride in and save the day.

[Foxdiamond]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

Truss is a horror. She’s going to crash and burn over the winter. 

She is gormless. When becomes PM she will want to scrap PMQs or send a deputy. She is just so thick. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

20 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Idk why it always seems to be this way, but how are these people the top politicians in the country. Is it simply just buying your way to the top and being mates with the right people? 

Same school same uni 

[BenTheFox]

Liz Truss is so overwhelmingly awful that I *almost* look at Rishi Sunak and think that he isn't actually so horrendous. 

[ealingfox]

 

Here's Rishi Sunak claiming to have 'nailed' doing a contactless card transaction. As you can see, the order has already completed meaning there is no need for him to be holding his card against the reader.

 

[Zear0]

17 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Here's Rishi Sunak claiming to have 'nailed' doing a contactless card transaction. As you can see, the order has already completed meaning there is no need for him to be holding his card against the reader.

 

Bet he (his PA who prepped the pic) only ordered six chicken nuggets too. Wetter. 

[Bordersfox]

4 hours ago, taupe said:

Credit it where it's due (if it is indeed credit), I do think the Tories are good at sticking together when it counts, at playing down their internal differences and getting behind whoever the elected leader is. I'm not saying there aren't fractions but nobody squabbles internally quite like the left - arguing over the right shade of red whilst perhaps what  might be more effective is to concentrate on it not being blue.

I think it was Andrew Rawnsley who wrote a while back that the Tories greatest strength is their disloyalty.  They will sacrifice principle and leader if it means staying in power.  Not quite my definition of sticking together but I know what you're getting at.  Ruthless when required.  

 

The point about the left is sadly true though, something my now elderly (and left wing) parents have complained about frequently is the fractious nature of the left.  My dad regaling me with tales of near punch ups down the Clarendon in the 70s between people that, broadly, agree on most things but got embroiled in the detail. It's not the Judean people's party it's the people's party of Judea! 

 

That said it's rather easier to stick together when you've got the vast majority of the press propagandising on your behalf, certainly when an election looms.