The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Ah yes, hammering nails into a petrol stations pumps displays, stopping people filling up, stopping the people there working their likely minimum wage job in already tough financial times, and costing their employee thousands to repair, that's exactly the kind of thing Boris Johnson and his ilk will sit up and take notice of 🙄 You don't get through to these clowns by disrupting normal peoples lives, you have to get at them. Millions of people do what they can in tough times to help with the environment, annoying them will get these people nowhere.

As much as this is true (and yes, pissing people off most often doesn't have the desired effect), it's not enough. Not enough change is happening fast enough, and that's down to the powers that be, and (though people perhaps don't want to hear it), in a democratic society, down to the people who elected them not putting them under enough pressure to enact those changes. 

 

And we're not dealing with an entity which rewards lack of effort with a "unlucky, sure you'll do better next time, son". Perhaps people don't understand that because they can't really comprehend how bad it could all get...but that lack of foresight will be punished too.

 

It's so deeply frustrating to see planks like those people taking up the headlines (yes, criminal damage is bad, but most of the time it isn't newsworthy) and taking valuable time away from the real, imminent and terrifying problem humanity faces.

 

Forgive me for repeating myself here, but while time are bloody difficult right now, failing to think long term will simply result in much worse times ahead.

[urban.spaceman]

The £98 part is also a scandal. 
 

 

[ozleicester]

Since the 70s people have been quietly raising issues about climate change... FIFTY YEARS.... little to nothing has been done.

The same way the suffragettes spent years with meetings and talking... until they began significant disruptive activities, nothing was really achieved.

IT
IS
TIME

Public disruption is the ONLY option now.

[foxes1988]

11 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Or bang em up. 

As I say. Plenty more people are ready to step in and take the place of anyone 'banged up'.  It won't stop anything

[Fazzer 7]

3 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Since the 70s people have been quietly raising issues about climate change... FIFTY YEARS.... little to nothing has been done.

The same way the suffragettes spent years with meetings and talking... until they began significant disruptive activities, nothing was really achieved.

IT
IS
TIME

Public disruption is the ONLY option now.

How can you say we’ve done little to nothing. The North sea is awash with wind turbines, we’ve got rid of almost all the coal power stations, and land is is being consumed by solar panels and turbines. Oh and we’ve reduced co2 by 47% since the 90’s. And in any case we only produce about 1% of global emissions. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1051408/2020-final-greenhouse-gas-emissions-statistical-release.pdf

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Fazzer 7 said:

How can you say we’ve done little to nothing. The North sea is awash with wind turbines, we’ve got rid of almost all the coal power stations, and land is is being consumed by solar panels and turbines. Oh and we’ve reduced co2 by 47% since the 90’s. And in any case we only produce about 1% of global emissions. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1051408/2020-final-greenhouse-gas-emissions-statistical-release.pdf

You're right. It's not little to nothing. However, it's not enough.

 

And responsibility for that goes beyond national borders, because you can be damn sure the consequences will.

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Fazzer 7 said:

How can you say we’ve done little to nothing. The North sea is awash with wind turbines, we’ve got rid of almost all the coal power stations, and land is is being consumed by solar panels and turbines. Oh and we’ve reduced co2 by 47% since the 90’s. And in any case we only produce about 1% of global emissions. 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1051408/2020-final-greenhouse-gas-emissions-statistical-release.pdf

It's a fair point, I think it's the general feeling that this government doesn't really believe in the climate crisis, or at least certain elements of the government don't and are preventing the cabinet from enacting greener policy.

[Fazzer 7]

51 minutes ago, Captain... said:

It's a fair point, I think it's the general feeling that this government doesn't really believe in the climate crisis, or at least certain elements of the government don't and are preventing the cabinet from enacting greener policy.

Greener policy costs money, and we're god knows how many hundreds of billions in debt. The pace of change must be market driven in my opinion. If for example electric cars are so great people will buy them. Fact is at this moment in time they're not. They are unaffordable for most and that's just the start, they're not even that green when you consider things like the lithium extraction for the batteries. No doubt they'll improve but the market should drive advancements, not necessarily government policy, Ie setting a net zero target by 2050.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

It's a fair point, I think it's the general feeling that this government doesn't really believe in the climate crisis, or at least certain elements of the government don't and are preventing the cabinet from enacting greener policy.

I think the green policy of this government isn't that bad by comparison, however it could be much better - especially when it comes to lobbying other governments to make this a single concerted world effort, which it needs to be.

 

3 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Greener policy costs money, and we're god knows how many hundreds of billions in debt. The pace of change must be market driven in my opinion. If for example electric cars are so great people will buy them. Fact is at this moment in time they're not. They are unaffordable for most and that's just the start, they're not even that green when you consider things like the lithium extraction for the batteries. No doubt they'll improve but the market should drive advancements, not necessarily government policy, Ie setting a net zero target by 2050.

The market doesn't look beyond the end of a human life. It is based on satisfying short-term human need.

 

That is a critical, perhaps fatal, weakness when dealing with a problem that needs to be handled over lengths of time that exceed the human interest span - or even the human lifetime. This is not the kind of problem that can be fixed in that kind of short-term market-based solution - or if it is, it would come at immense cost in money and lives.

 

The solution in this case has to be policy and command-driven or it won't be effective. If it's not effective, then that's gambling with the lives of around a billion people. At best.

 

If there's a counterargument that suggest the market would be able to stop events leading to the increased incidences of flooding, drought and extreme weather brought on by increased global average temperature, I'd very much like to hear an elaboration explaining exactly how it is scientifically effective rather than just economically viable.

[Captain...]

2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Greener policy costs money, and we're god knows how many hundreds of billions in debt. The pace of change must be market driven in my opinion. If for example electric cars are so great people will buy them. Fact is at this moment in time they're not. They are unaffordable for most and that's just the start, they're not even that green when you consider things like the lithium extraction for the batteries. No doubt they'll improve but the market should drive advancements, not necessarily government policy, Ie setting a net zero target by 2050.

But the government needs to intervene to control the market, for example if the government didn't subsidise farming then British produce would be prohibitively expensive and the market would be full with even more cheap imported produce. The government needs to enact change to prevent disaster. More green energy policies could have prevented this energy crisis, continuing the solar energy feed in tariffs would have made buying solar panels more attractive reducing our reliance on foreign energy sources. If you wait for market forces to dictate change you are going to be forming reactive policy not being proactive in protecting the markets from things like the war in Ukraine.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Captain... said:

But the government needs to intervene to control the market, for example if the government didn't subsidise farming then British produce would be prohibitively expensive and the market would be full with even more cheap imported produce. The government needs to enact change to prevent disaster. More green energy policies could have prevented this energy crisis, continuing the solar energy feed in tariffs would have made buying solar panels more attractive reducing our reliance on foreign energy sources. If you wait for market forces to dictate change you are going to be forming reactive policy not being proactive in protecting the markets from things like the war in Ukraine.

Exactly.

 

And how do you react to drought and flooding rendering a large swath of the current living area around the equator uninhabitable with the lack of food and potable water that entails?

[Fazzer 7]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Exactly.

 

And how do you react to drought and flooding rendering a large swath of the current living area around the equator uninhabitable with the lack of food and potable water that entails?

Cloud seeding as the Chinese have just done. Is that a possibility. 

[Foxdiamond]

5 hours ago, foxes1988 said:

As I say. Plenty more people are ready to step in and take the place of anyone 'banged up'.  It won't stop anything

I agree that more needs to be done. Just wondering what is the lifestyle of the average protester such as those that attack petrol stations. Do they lead a frugal life beyond reproach. 

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Cloud seeding as the Chinese have just done. Is that a possibility. 

It's a possibility, but given that it's not really a thoroughly tested solution and is costly in its own right, it might be nice for humanity to not have to rely on such chancy solutions when it's one-shot-or-face-dire-consequences.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Cloud seeding as the Chinese have just done. Is that a possibility. 

not only do you need clouds, you also need the right kind of clouds 

 

 

[kenny]

19 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

not only do you need clouds, you also need the right kind of clouds 

 

 

The last thing we need is to plan the future resourcing around a particular type of weather.

[l444ry]

12 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

The £98 part is also a scandal. 
 

 

Thought the tosspot would have used his Penny-farthing.

[Guest Kopfkino]

European politics really is a state at the moment. Understandably a lot of focus on this winter as the situation is acute (and even then only Macron - surprise surprise - seems to have a true handle on it) but the complete absence of anyone really showing any evidence of thinking of the huge long term problem that will make this winter seem like a game off tiddlywinks 
 

Don’t get me wrong I have more faith that the EU and it’s individual members will come up with a plan before the rabble that’s about to continue/take up government here but the whole of Europe seems to be in a state of inertia compared to the issue that faces us beyond just this winter.

[st albans fox]

Truss has bottled out of her 1 to 1 interview with nick Robinson 

 

how she can get away with that is incredible but it won’t resonate with the members because 

a) she didn’t resign from cabinet and stick the proverbial knife in boris 

b) she isn’t a person of colour 

[RobHawk]

I still can't get my head around the Tory's decision that when it came to infrastructure, getting to Leeds 30minutes quicker was more important than being energy self sufficient. 

 

This was a decision made by a Tory government and I cannot believe more people aren't shouting about it. 

 

But remember, they are the party to trust when it comes to the economy 🙄🙄🙄🙄

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Truss has bottled out of her 1 to 1 interview with nick Robinson 

 

how she can get away with that is incredible but it won’t resonate with the members because 

a) she didn’t resign from cabinet and stick the proverbial knife in boris 

b) she isn’t a person of colour 

Johnson hid in a fridge during the 2019 campaign and it didn't seem to damage his popularity.

 

It does often feel like people don't want the politicians they favour to be challenged or exposed to scrutiny. Increasingly it seems that our relationship with our elected representatives is like that of parent and their idiot child, who they cannot bear to hear anything bad about and whose supposed achievements they'll bang on about to anybody daft enough to listen

[LanguedocFox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Truss has bottled out of her 1 to 1 interview with nick Robinson 

 

how she can get away with that is incredible but it won’t resonate with the members because 

a) she didn’t resign from cabinet and stick the proverbial knife in boris 

b) she isn’t a person of colour 

She’s also trying to be Johnson 2.0: he bottled out of a 1:1 interview on the Beeb with Andrew Neil before the 2019 General Election. I thought at the time that the whey-faced turd was unwilling to be shown up for the lying incompetent that many of us thought he was.

Clearly Truss doesn’t want a good journalist like Nick Robinson asking her difficult questions. But like Johnson, she’ll soon be exposed as an incompetent charlatan.
 

Unfortunately, we’ll all have to live [exist] with the consequences. Hopefully she is arrogant enough to think she can call an early General Election and win it. Hubris, it’s called.

 

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, LanguedocFox said:

She’s also trying to be Johnson 2.0: he bottled out of a 1:1 interview on the Beeb with Andrew Neil before the 2019 General Election. I thought at the time that the whey-faced turd was unwilling to be shown up for the lying incompetent that many of us thought he was.

Clearly Truss doesn’t want a good journalist like Nick Robinson asking her difficult questions. But like Johnson, she’ll soon be exposed as an incompetent charlatan.
 

Unfortunately, we’ll all have to live [exist] with the consequences. Hopefully she is arrogant enough to think she can call an early General Election and win it. Hubris, it’s called.

 

I remember a while ago when Andrew Neil exposed her as a right twit during interview 

[LanguedocFox]

19 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Johnson hid in a fridge during the 2019 campaign and it didn't seem to damage his popularity.

 

It does often feel like people don't want the politicians they favour to be challenged or exposed to scrutiny. Increasingly it seems that our relationship with our elected representatives is like that of parent and their idiot child, who they cannot bear to hear anything bad about and whose supposed achievements they'll bang on about to anybody daft enough to listen

You’re right, in that Johnson won an 80-seat majority at the General Election. But he was up against a Corbyn-led Labour Party and LibDems led by Jo Swinson, who was breathtakingly incompetent (and I speak as a LibDem member!) Johnson could also promise to “get Brexit done”, which appealed to a large minority of the electorate.

 

Truss has none of those advantages, and she’s not as fluent at boostering as Johnson. Up against Starmer, Ed Davey and Ian Blackford, she’ll fall apart, especially with Johnson on the back benches behind her, and facing problems on every front.

[LanguedocFox]

12 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I remember a while ago when Andrew Neil exposed her as a right twit during interview 

Not, I think, a difficult thing to do. In fact, Truss does a reasonably good job of making herself look a right [wing] twit.