The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Zear0]

9 hours ago, Brizzle Fox said:

Journalism at it's finest. No agenda of course though...

"Don't they know there's a war on?" 

[blabyboy]

15 hours ago, pSinatra said:

 

I agree but I'm not quite sure what they could have done

 

This is a Tory/media driven accusation.  The narrative has been firmly set & it's relentless......regardless of any sort of reality.  He had a curry at work & he had a beer to wash it down.  It's a non-story.  There is no similarity to what Boris has been up to.  He was at work & he was treating it like work.  There was no cake, no wife, no decorators, no singing.  What part of the law is he supposed to have broken?

He was in a group of more than 6, so was technically in breach of the rules at that time. Whilst i agree that it's not as bad a Bojo, there are other parts of the story that have also been less than accurate than what was first claimed.

 

The beer and curry was initially something that just happened due to working late, then it was discovered that the itinerary specifically allocated 1.5 hrs for this, so it was planned.

 

Lab also said Raynor wasn't there until a video was shown that proved she was. So, you have an ongoing narrative where Lab/Starmer say one thing, and the fact of the matter reveals something at odds to what is claimed. This plays into hands of the Tories who can at least attempt to draw parallels with Bojo and try make them equally as bad in the eyes of the public.

 

Played right, this could get someone like Wes Streeting into the LotO position and have a new younger face ala Tony Blair in the 90s to sweep in at the next GE.

Edited 10 May 2022 by blabyboy
Missing words

[Voll Blau]

16 hours ago, kenny said:

Q: What will you do if Durham police do not issue a fine, but if they say you broke the rules anyway

 

Starmer replies:

"The penalty for a Covid breach is a fixed penalty. And I’ve set out what the position is in relation to that. Thank you very much."

 

That implies that he wouldn’t. He seems to be arguing that if the penalty for a breach of the rules is a fine, then if he does not get a fine, he has not broken the rules.

 

 

Not so much, Durham Police have already said they don't do retrospective action for covid cases in the same way they didn't with Cummings. Reckon he is banking on that.

 

16 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

I read it as that being the penalty that's automatically triggered if he's found in breach, i.e. the two things are one and the same?

I stand corrected on this. Turns out his behaviour might just be "criticised" by the police, as happened with Cummings.

 

If that's the case, he should still resign.

[leicsmac]

35 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I've briefly glanced at Twitter this morning, and looked here. I'm reminded why I keep my head clear of such clouds of 'information' most of the time (meaning the tabloids, not FT).

Yep.

 

The next issue is figuring out exactly why so many people who also have a vote are compelled to not only do the opposite but also actually be OK with what is being printed.

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yep.

 

The next issue is figuring out exactly why so many people who also have a vote are compelled to not only do the opposite but also actually be OK with what is being printed.

The answer, in my opinion, lies in decades/eras/centuries of conditioning.

[fuchsntf]

Who gives a toss...UK people stood silent, and are letting Boris & his cronies, walk all over you...You allow a Dictator & despot politics Government in the UK

 

Do you as an electorate deserve anything else...One Thing is for sure, you dont have any moral Righteous ground

to Slate or even have an opinion on other countries...Gratious & hypocritical ..UK..!!

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Who gives a toss...UK people stood silent, and are letting Boris & his cronies, walk all over you...You allow a Dictator & despot politics Government in the UK

 

Do you as an electorate deserve anything else...One Thing is for sure, you dont have any moral Righteous ground

to Slate or even have an opinion on other countries...Gratious & hypocritical ..UK..!!

I understand your point....but we are not one voice, we all have voices, and BoJo does not represent me, nor does our dreadful media. Equally, those that voted for Brexit didn't vote as one with identical aims, we all of us have our own reasons for our actions. Just because my country appears to be headed in a bad direction (in my opinion), don't make us all responsible for it.

[Captain...]

This whole thing is getting a bit ridiculous now. It's a ballsy move from Starmer that could back fire spectacularly. The defense from Starmer should have been that he adhered to the rules as he understood them, and pick apart the confusion of the rules being changed constantly and that they were unclear and confusing to many people. The only people who have no excuse on misunderstanding the rules are the ones that made them, and they are the ones that broke them the most. 

 

The rules at the time had recommendations for working practice but no rules of law, and further exemptions were made for campaigning.

 

The rules prohibited socialising inside, but socialising is open to interpretation, I have on a number of big projects had beer and pizza when working late, it wasn't socialising, but it was a more relaxed working environment as we were all giving up our evenings to get a project done. Normally hanging around for one person to do their bit before we could finalise our parts. 

 

Whatever the outcome Boris and pals should always be held more accountable as they wrote the rules and have no excuse for breaking them.

 

 

[Innovindil]

47 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Who gives a toss...UK people stood silent, and are letting Boris & his cronies, walk all over you...You allow a Dictator & despot politics Government in the UK

 

Do you as an electorate deserve anything else...One Thing is for sure, you dont have any moral Righteous ground

to Slate or even have an opinion on other countries...Gratious & hypocritical ..UK..!!

The **** sort of nonsense is this. 

 

Not allowed to slate other countries? Bollocks to that. You've got Filipinos voting in the son of a literal dictator. Muricans actively cheering on the regression of women's rights. Russians cheering on the slaughter of their neighbours. 

 

And you're angry because there's not been an Uprising because of some parties in downing street? Even though they've been actively criticised by almost everyone on here and stomped at the local elections. 

 

Get some perspective ffs. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Innovindil said:

The **** sort of nonsense is this. 

 

Not allowed to slate other countries? Bollocks to that. You've got Filipinos voting in the son of a literal dictator. Muricans actively cheering on the regression of women's rights. Russians cheering on the slaughter of their neighbours. 

 

And you're angry because there's not been an Uprising because of some parties in downing street? Even though they've been actively criticised by almost everyone on here and stomped at the local elections. 

 

Get some perspective ffs. 

... and the Chinese- well, unfortunately we don't really get to know what they think before they get unpersoned.

 

So yeah, the political situation in the UK stinks to high heaven, but I'd agree that the stench in other places, some rather more influential, is worse.

 

That being said, if the Tories do win the next GE despite all that has happened here I will wonder rather more about the British voting populace, no matter who Labour stick up against them if Starmer resigns.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

The answer, in my opinion, lies in decades/eras/centuries of conditioning.

"Whoever had created humanity had left in a major design flaw. It was its tendency to bend at the knees.” ― Terry Pratchett

[Houdini Logic]

It's a weird time to be alive. The Conservatives announcing more, almost socialist measures, just like they did through the pandemic. They must hate it deep down. I'm sure it's just because they don't want the economy to collapse on their watch and also because there's an election in a couple of years but the world is just a strange place right now. Politics is just a blurred mess.

[weller54]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

This whole thing is getting a bit ridiculous now. It's a ballsy move from Starmer that could back fire spectacularly. The defense from Starmer should have been that he adhered to the rules as he understood them, and pick apart the confusion of the rules being changed constantly and that they were unclear and confusing to many people. The only people who have no excuse on misunderstanding the rules are the ones that made them, and they are the ones that broke them the most. 

 

The rules at the time had recommendations for working practice but no rules of law, and further exemptions were made for campaigning.

 

The rules prohibited socialising inside, but socialising is open to interpretation, I have on a number of big projects had beer and pizza when working late, it wasn't socialising, but it was a more relaxed working environment as we were all giving up our evenings to get a project done. Normally hanging around for one person to do their bit before we could finalise our parts. 

 

Whatever the outcome Boris and pals should always be held more accountable as they wrote the rules and have no excuse for breaking them.

 

 

A beer+pizza on one occasion v 15 Parties at Downing Street.

Ffs! 

This is only being driven by the Tory tabloids! It's quite pathetic really... 

But nothing surprises me anymore after Brexit and how the gullible believed all the fairytales.

 

[HighPeakFox]

And, by the way, the current absurd attempt at equivalence over Starmer is exactly the punishment meted out to Milliband, Corbyn, and before them, Kinnock. It has very little to do with policies and much more to do with desperate dirty tricks and hypocrisy to fool enough poor souls. 

 

Unfortunately, it tends to work. 

[blabyboy]

42 minutes ago, weller54 said:

A beer+pizza on one occasion v 15 Parties at Downing Street.

 

 

You can bet you're bottom pound that journos are now going back over previous Labour functions and checking those.

 

Quote

This is only being driven by the Tory tabloids! It's quite pathetic really... 

Not really. It's the Press at large. They gave Bojo a good going over when the party stuff came out... and they will do again when the next set of fines come out and don't forget that the Sue Gray report still has to be released fully. KS is just the target du jour. I would guess that Ed Davey dreams of getting this amount of free exposure.

 

Quote

But nothing surprises me anymore after Brexit and how the gullible believed all the fairytales.

Is it a lovely view from that Ivory tower? 

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

You can bet you're bottom pound that journos are now going back over previous Labour functions and checking those.

 

Not really. It's the Press at large. They gave Bojo a good going over when the party stuff came out... and they will do again when the next set of fines come out and don't forget that the Sue Gray report still has to be released fully. KS is just the target du jour. I would guess that Ed Davey dreams of getting this amount of free exposure.

 

Is it a lovely view from that Ivory tower? 

Hmmmm...I must have missed that good going over among all the "Don't They Know There's A War On?" headlines from the most popular press outlets out there.

 

That the most popular newspapers bat for the Conservatives at this point in time (because of mutual interest) is practically a matter of record.

[blabyboy]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

And, by the way, the current absurd attempt at equivalence over Starmer is exactly the punishment meted out to Milliband, Corbyn, and before them, Kinnock. It has very little to do with policies and much more to do with desperate dirty tricks and hypocrisy to fool enough poor souls. 

 

Unfortunately, it tends to work. 

I think, as with most things, that works both ways... it's more about who's in Government and they have a lot more cache and influence with the media of the day. Recall the way that Hague (14 pints a day?), IDS and Howard ("there's something of the night about him") were treated when Blair was in.

 

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, blabyboy said:

I think, as with most things, that works both ways... it's more about who's in Government and they have a lot more cache and influence with the media of the day. Recall the way that Hague (14 pints a day?), IDS and Howard ("there's something of the night about him") were treated when Blair was in.

 

I would respectfully suggest it wasn't equal, but I would also concede that my general viewpoint might cause me to be biased. 

[blabyboy]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Hmmmm...I must have missed that good going over among all the "Don't They Know There's A War On?" headlines from the most popular press outlets out there.

 

That the most popular newspapers bat for the Conservatives at this point in time (because of mutual interest) is practically a matter of record.

You perhaps have a short memory then Mac? Bojo was definitely getting a kicking before the War started - "never waste a good crisis" is very appropriate here and it has certainly helped Bojo in the short-term. However, as people normalise the War in Ukraine, I think we will see the fines and the SG report come back to the fore again.

 

I don't disagree on the papers point, but even they bite the hand that feeds them now and then, perhaps not enough times for you, but they have been critical. 

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

You perhaps have a short memory then Mac? Bojo was definitely getting a kicking before the War started - "never waste a good crisis" is very appropriate here and it has certainly helped Bojo in the short-term. However, as people normalise the War in Ukraine, I think we will see the fines and the SG report come back to the fore again.

 

I don't disagree on the papers point, but even they bite the hand that feeds them now and then, perhaps not enough times for you, but they have been critical. 

I don't think the more popular areas of the press have been anywhere near as critical as they should be, but I guess we'll have to disagree there. The day the Daily Mail, for instance, publishes something thoroughly critical of Johnson or the Tories on the front page, without reference to how other parties would be even worse, would be a cold day in Hell.

 

And to reiterate; I'm specifically referencing the Mail and the Sun because they are the most popular dailies and therefore have the most pull with the UK voter base.

[Milo]

31 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

And, by the way, the current absurd attempt at equivalence over Starmer is exactly the punishment meted out to Milliband, Corbyn, and before them, Kinnock. It has very little to do with policies and much more to do with desperate dirty tricks and hypocrisy to fool enough poor souls. 

 

Unfortunately, it tends to work. 

Couple of patronising posts today! 
 

 

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, Milo said:

Couple of patronising posts today! 

Just how is what I said patronising? 

[fox_up_north]

One of the things I am really not happy with are some of the proposed laws surrounding protest. The right to protest is vital. 

[Sampson]

Honestly starting to think this Rwanda thing is deliberately designed to fail.

 

The way the government keep openly saying "we're expected a legal challenge" makes me half think it's just a ploy to say "we're trying to sort out immigration but those pesky lefty lawyers are stopping us" to their red meat voters.

Edited 10 May 2022 by Sampson

[Milo]

27 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Just how is what I said patronising? 

Apologies.

 

I've just re-read.

 

I thought they were 'People that vote a different way to me have been manipulated, poor sods' type posts, but they weren't

 

On the newspaper equivalence point, I'd probably disagree, though. From memory, the Tories have had their fair share of Fleet Street treatment - from Mellor, Major, Norris, Aitkin, Duck pond bloke, Neil Hamilton, etc. 

 

 

 

Anyway...