The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Voll Blau]

Quote

Labour is considering abolishing the House of Lords and replacing it with an upper house of nations and regions, as well as handing sweeping new powers to local regions and devolved nations, a leaked report has revealed.

The constitutional review by the former prime minister Gordon Brown, which has been seen by MPs and shadow cabinet ministers, recommends devolving new economic powers, including over taxation, and creating new independent councils of the nations and for England.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/22/labour-considering-abolishing-house-of-lords-if-it-wins-next-election-leaked-report-reveals

 

Not sure this is much of a vote winner but it would be interesting if it came to fruition.

[fox_up_north]

I'm not actually against the Lords. The idea of a group of peers, who aren't seeking to just gain votes, checking the viability and legality of government proposals is a good one. There should just be a One in/ one out policy and they should be broadly representative of society. 

[Zear0]

Let the riff raff feast on the trickle.

[Foxdiamond]

This Tory mob absolutely shameless now in tax and NI insurance cuts that benefit the better off far more than the average and lower paid. More of the so called trickle down. The rich bathing and the poor getting the drips.

[rachhere]

3 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

This Tory mob absolutely shameless now in tax and NI insurance cuts that benefit the better off far more than the average and lower paid. More of the so called trickle down. The rich bathing and the poor getting the drips.

Got to make those tough decisions... 

 

(Unbelievable isn't it)

[Zear0]

Director of the IFS is supportive

 

 

[ealingfox]

45 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

I'm not actually against the Lords. The idea of a group of peers, who aren't seeking to just gain votes, checking the viability and legality of government proposals is a good one. There should just be a One in/ one out policy and they should be broadly representative of society. 

 

I agree with it in principle too, but it's been used as a political tool for too long now which has greatly diminished the quality and credibility of its membership. Forget one in, one out, it needs to be drastically reduced in size as a priority. There shouldn't be any more than 650 incumbents, the same as the Commons. There are currently over 100 more than that, massive waste of money.

[CosbehFox]

53 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

I'm not actually against the Lords. The idea of a group of peers, who aren't seeking to just gain votes, checking the viability and legality of government proposals is a good one. There should just be a One in/ one out policy and they should be broadly representative of society. 

Except its been an utter joke at some of the figures elected recently - Ian Botham FFS

[Greg2607]

17 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

This Tory mob absolutely shameless now in tax and NI insurance cuts that benefit the better off far more than the average and lower paid. More of the so called trickle down. The rich bathing and the poor getting the drips.

any Tax and NI cut is going to "disproportionately benefit the wealthy" as they pay more when the rates go up... so clearly they benefit more when the rates come down.  

 

It's the entire ideology that needs to change. 

[Daggers]

[Captain...]

6 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

any Tax and NI cut is going to "disproportionately benefit the wealthy" as they pay more when the rates go up... so clearly they benefit more when the rates come down.  

 

It's the entire ideology that needs to change. 

It just baffles me that they don't just raise the lower threshold, save everyone eg £500 a year. Benefits the majority, but the lower earners benefit more because £500 goes further. Obviously those that are already below the threshold won't benefit from this, but it needs to be done as a suite of support packages.

[Zear0]

The odious Chris Philp playing the "i'm new" card whilst claiming that borrowing £45bn isn't borrowing as in five-years they might increase growth by £47bn.

[Daggers]

I’m blaming Brendan for that mini-budget.

[yorkie1999]

35 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

any Tax and NI cut is going to "disproportionately benefit the wealthy" as they pay more when the rates go up... so clearly they benefit more when the rates come down.  

 

It's the entire ideology that needs to change. 

Except probably most of the wealthy avoid paying tax and ni. This is aimed at middle earners and getting their disponsible income back into the economy cycle. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

The obsession with what other people in tax in this country is crazy. People that earn more pay more tax, so when taxes come down for all of course higher earners get larger reductions. 

 

Pretty much everyone got a bit better off today and the first instinct is to cry "yeah but look at this other person!".

[Foxdiamond]

4 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The obsession with what other people in tax in this country is crazy. People that earn more pay more tax, so when taxes come down for all of course higher earners get larger reductions. 

 

Pretty much everyone got a bit better off today and the first instinct is to cry "yeah but look at this other person!".

At a time when many lower paid are really desperate you think a miniscule increase should satisfy them while people at the top get far more than they need. A typical Tory reaction to think a few crumbs from the cake is fair while the fat get fatter.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

5 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

At a time when many lower paid are really desperate you think a miniscule increase should satisfy them while people at the top get far more than they need. A typical Tory reaction to think a few crumbs from the cake is fair while the fat get fatter.

I never said that thanks. 

 

When taxes go up it's branded "a tax on the poor", when they come down it's branded "a cut for the rich". Like I say the obsession with what others are taxed is so bizarre.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I never said that thanks. 

 

When taxes go up it's branded "a tax on the poor", when they come down it's branded "a cut for the rich". Like I say the obsession with what others are taxed is so bizarre.

I guess the obsession about that often depends whether or not people feel that public services should be funded enough for them to be of similar quality to public services in other OECD countries (besides the USA, an outlier as always).

 

Evidently people think differently on that and other such things in the public good.

[fox_up_north]

13 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The obsession with what other people in tax in this country is crazy. People that earn more pay more tax, so when taxes come down for all of course higher earners get larger reductions. 

 

Pretty much everyone got a bit better off today and the first instinct is to cry "yeah but look at this other person!".

A rich person paying, say, 45% tax is disproportionate to someone earning £20k (and there's plenty of them) paying 20% tax. 

 

£250k a year man takes home £11,700 per month

£20k a year man takes home £1,400 per month.

 

But if they cut taxes, rich man will benefit more than poor man. It's not a case of a "bit better off", it's that poor man may have a couple hundred quid a year more BUT everything else has gone up in price, while rich man is upwards of £10k a year off when he doesn't need to be. 

 

I've seen rich money. There's just no bloody need for it. Really, what are you gonna do with £200k in the bank? No point. It's just making life worse for other people through inequality. 

[Brizzle Fox]

15 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The obsession with what other people in tax in this country is crazy. People that earn more pay more tax, so when taxes come down for all of course higher earners get larger reductions. 

 

Pretty much everyone got a bit better off today and the first instinct is to cry "yeah but look at this other person!".

You do realise that the overall tax benefit that those not in the top 1% will receive here will be so low, as to be more than wiped out by the further inflationary pressures that this giveaway to the rich will drive, don't you?

 

You do also realise that the markets crashing,  the pound tanking and Bond yields flying through the roof making our already eye watering levels of borrowing even more expensive, is not necessarily a good thing for long term, sustainable economic growth, don't you?

 

A "budget for growth" indeed....only if you're very rich that is.

 

Biggest open goal Labour could possibly ever have. If they don't walk the next election, they'll never get in power again.

[Foxdiamond]

10 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

I never said that thanks. 

 

When taxes go up it's branded "a tax on the poor", when they come down it's branded "a cut for the rich". Like I say the obsession with what others are taxed is so bizarre.

It is not bizarre at a time when so many are worried about cost of living

[fox_up_north]

Also, the pound has absolutely nosedived after the announcements, now worth barely $1.10 and Bloomberg telling people to sell. That's pretty unprecedented for a Tory government and we could end the day with the pound being worth LESS than USD. That has never happened in my lifetime or even come close to happening. 

[Zear0]

6 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

A rich person paying, say, 45% tax is disproportionate to someone earning £20k (and there's plenty of them) paying 20% tax. 

 

£250k a year man takes home £11,700 per month

£20k a year man takes home £1,400 per month.

 

But if they cut taxes, rich man will benefit more than poor man. It's not a case of a "bit better off", it's that poor man may have a couple hundred quid a year more BUT everything else has gone up in price, while rich man is upwards of £10k a year off when he doesn't need to be. 

 

I've seen rich money. There's just no bloody need for it. Really, what are you gonna do with £200k in the bank? No point. It's just making life worse for other people through inequality. 

That £200k in the bank will trickle down the needy, and the world will be fair.

[urban.spaceman]