The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Dahnsouff]

20 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

And Labour made clear their intentions to the immediate energy crisis clear in August - https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-sets-out-labours-plan-to-address-the-tory-cost-of-living-crisis/

 

And today as the FT published this morning/last night, they are announcing their green investment plans today - https://www.ft.com/content/331a0465-4125-49d7-bf79-d4eaf90ce60c 

The nationalisation of rail should never ever come as a commitment before energy and water nationalisation in my opinion (And these articles do not suggest it is on the agenda), but let me be clear, I am not lamabasting Labours decision to nationaloise the rail network to promote the Tories, this is impossible with recent actions, but surely such a stance is obvious?

 

Finishing on a positive, I do very much applaud the move to 19m insulate homes as this has long been neglected, and it should make a difference  

 

Anyway, said my bit,  its not like Labour can't be worse than these Tories and a change is surely required.

Edited 26 September 2022 by Dahnsouff

[Robo61]

13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The nationalisation of rail should never ever come as a commitment before energy and water nationalisation in my opinion (And these articles do not suggest it is on the agenda), but let me be clear, I am not lamabasting Labours decision to nationaloise the rail network to promote the Tories, this is impossible with recent actions, but surely such a stance is obvious?

 

Finishing on a positive, I do very much applaud the move to 19m insulate homes as this has long been neglected, and it should make a difference  

 

Anyway, said my bit,  its not like Labour can't be worse than these Tories and a change is surely required.

I am certainly not against the nationalisation of Water or Energy,  but it is not a clear choice between that and nationalisation of Rail.  Labour intends to bring the rail companies back into public ownership when the term of their franchises ends and is therefore at no cost to the tax payer.  This is simply not possible with energy and water and with borrowing at an all time high it is probably not the best use of public money at this time. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Robo61 said:

I am certainly not against the nationalisation of Water or Energy,  but it is not a clear choice between that and nationalisation of Rail.  Labour intends to bring the rail companies back into public ownership when the term of their franchises ends and is therefore at no cost to the tax payer.  This is simply not possible with energy and water and with borrowing at an all time high it is probably not the best use of public money at this time. 

In the light of recent price rises affecting millions, due in large part to the invasion of Ukraine, it surely makes sense to put energy security front and centre. If you consider that another reason for doing so is to give yourself  the greater control over how fast the move away from fossil fuels occurs (A commitment made already) I just do not see how you come to this conclusion.

 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

In the light of recent price rises affecting millions, due in large part to the invasion of Ukraine, it surely makes sense to put energy security front and centre. If you consider that another reason for doing so is to give yourself  the greater control over how fast the move away from fossil fuels occurs (A commitment made already) I just do not see how you come to this conclusion.

 

I have to agree with this, more for the second reason than the first.

 

The choice is simple: pay a significant amount (that will keep rising) to change energy sources now or pay much, much not far at all down the line to a much less forgiving entity - a cost that will be in blood as well as material.

Edited 26 September 2022 by leicsmac

[CosbehFox]

49 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

The nationalisation of rail should never ever come as a commitment before energy and water nationalisation in my opinion (And these articles do not suggest it is on the agenda), but let me be clear, I am not lamabasting Labours decision to nationaloise the rail network to promote the Tories, this is impossible with recent actions, but surely such a stance is obvious?

 

Finishing on a positive, I do very much applaud the move to 19m insulate homes as this has long been neglected, and it should make a difference  

 

Anyway, said my bit,  its not like Labour can't be worse than these Tories and a change is surely required.

Ultimately it’s far easy to nationalise the trains in their current guise than the energy/water. That’s Labour being realistic rather than a prioritisation. 

[Greg2607]

I do think with energy, if we create an environment (pardon the pun) where there is a swift move to renewables, then it does help us with energy security. 

 

With our market, it's near on impossible to nationalise energy.  you can't nationalise both the retailers and the producers and without nationalising the producers, even a nationalised retailer is still susceptible to market rates....

 

but IF you circumnavigate the producers, by moving to a wholly renewable market, where costs and market rates can be reduced, then you get around the problem. 

 

We are never going to nationalise BP again are we.  It's just not feasible. 

 

but create a NEW domestic market and you fix lots of the systemic issues. 

[leicsmac]

To be honest, I'm accepting of most solutions that would ensure transition to renewable and fission reliance solely ASAP, the only interest in the mechanics of the solution being how they would contribute to its likelihood of success.

 

The "how" is fine, but it's the "do" that's the critical factor here.

[Fazzer 7]

So now we have other Countries domestic problems being fought out in OUR Capital City.

 

https://twitter.com/Justice_forum/status/1574135363760754688?s=20&t=zJCWYcB9F3y9NT7XiMbORg

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Ah look, the pound is starting to rally. 

On the expectation that the b of e will do something to show that sterling will be protected 

1 hour ago, martyn said:

On the expectation that the BoE will implement a significant, emergency rise in interest rates.

And when they failed to act and just issued a blah blah statement, it dropped 2 cents pretty quickly 

 

of course the bank don’t want to be bounced into a rate rise by the markets but with kwarteng only promising a nov statement on a mid term financial plan, they will soon have no option. 
 

there will be plenty of big beasts out there looking to make a lot of money out of this - it’s not quite erm territory but it’s not far off ! 

Edited 26 September 2022 by st albans fox

[martyn]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

On the expectation that the b of e will do something to show that sterling will be protected 

And when they failed to act and just issued a blah blah statement, it dropped 2 cents pretty quickly 

And timed to coincide with the markets closing for today 

 

Bloodbath tomorrow am.

[fox_up_north]

So the Chancellor has said they'll tell us more in November. That's great. Thanks. 

 

I'll just tell my boss that urgent report she wants cause it affects everyone in the company can wait until November. 

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, martyn said:

And timed to coincide with the markets closing for today 

 

Bloodbath tomorrow am.

The markets never close ….by the time the us closes the Far East opens - and we saw what happened in the Far East overnight - we could see the record low challenged 

[Dahnsouff]

33 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

I do think with energy, if we create an environment (pardon the pun) where there is a swift move to renewables, then it does help us with energy security. 

 

With our market, it's near on impossible to nationalise energy.  you can't nationalise both the retailers and the producers and without nationalising the producers, even a nationalised retailer is still susceptible to market rates....

 

but IF you circumnavigate the producers, by moving to a wholly renewable market, where costs and market rates can be reduced, then you get around the problem. 

 

We are never going to nationalise BP again are we.  It's just not feasible. 

 

but create a NEW domestic market and you fix lots of the systemic issues. 

But it is feasible, in times of crisis no measures are off the table - pleasant, costly and massive upheaval sure, but it’s not impossible and as with any such challenge having the will and a lack of opposing interests is half the battle

 

And on a related note why push fracking it’s not feasible in any sensible timescale - what a joke  

[urban.spaceman]

Psychosis is much more prevalent than previously thought

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 September 2022 by urban.spaceman

[Fazzer 7]

20 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

So the Chancellor has said they'll tell us more in November. That's great. Thanks. 

 

I'll just tell my boss that urgent report she wants cause it affects everyone in the company can wait until November. 

This is what happens when you make a bloke who read Classics a chancellor. He hasn’t a clue. I bet Rishi is wetting himself. I would expect a motion of no confidence tabled very soon. 

[FoxesWalk]

Virgin Money, Skipton and Halifax are all pulling Mortgage products from the U.K. market… that’s a good sign, right?
 

All products in the case of Virgin and Skipton. 
 

Some panic going on…

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

Virgin Money, Skipton and Halifax are all pulling Mortgage products from the U.K. market… that’s a good sign, right?
 

All products in the case of Virgin and Skipton. 
 

Some panic going on…

It’s not really a surprise 

 

I’ve had customers on the phone today saying ‘probably best not to buy anything for the time being as you won’t be able to quote’ 

 

great for business 

 

clueless - I mean the brexit  vote was a bad enough self inflicted trauma but at least the expectation was never there to actually leave - this is wholesale negligence on a gargantuan scale 

 

 

[Guest ttfn]

What an unbelievably shit last 6 or 7 years.

 

 

[FoxesWalk]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It’s not really a surprise 

 

I’ve had customers on the phone today saying ‘probably best not to buy anything for the time being as you won’t be able to quote’ 

 

great for business 

 

clueless - I mean the brexit  vote was a bad enough self inflicted trauma but at least the expectation was never there to actually leave - this is wholesale negligence on a gargantuan scale 

 

 

Agree, the level of incompetence is pretty remarkable 

[Fazzer 7]

The term Far Right has been banded around a lot today by the MSM following the Giorgia Meloni Italian election victory. So is anyone who opposes mass and illegal immigration, upholds family values, is patriotic and denounces some woke issues, now considered to be Far Right.

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

The term Far Right has been banded around a lot today by the MSM following the Giorgia Meloni Italian election victory. So is anyone who opposes mass and illegal immigration, upholds family values, is patriotic and denounces some woke issues, now considered to be Far Right.

Is there anything else on their agenda (like who they’re going to be in bed with ??) 

[urban.spaceman]

13 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

The term Far Right has been banded around a lot today by the MSM following the Giorgia Meloni Italian election victory. So is anyone who opposes mass and illegal immigration, upholds family values, is patriotic and denounces some woke issues, now considered to be Far Right.

She's quite literally said her idol was Mussolini.

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

She's quite literally said her idol was Mussolini.

Also literally spent her formulative political years in a party set up Mussolini 

[StanSP]

20 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

The term Far Right has been banded around a lot today by the MSM following the Giorgia Meloni Italian election victory. So is anyone who opposes mass and illegal immigration, upholds family values, is patriotic and denounces some woke issues, now considered to be Far Right.

No different to those who value community and equality (amongst other things) and generally being left-wing being branded 'woke'

 

Also, are you implying that those not 'far-right' don't uphold family values

 

[CosbehFox]

23 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

The term Far Right has been banded around a lot today by the MSM following the Giorgia Meloni Italian election victory. So is anyone who opposes mass and illegal immigration, upholds family values, is patriotic and denounces some woke issues, now considered to be Far Right.

Yeah she is. Because alongside what you list, she has said and written some utter bonkers waffles in her life