The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[blabyboy]

16 minutes ago, Lionator said:

There is literally no benefit to this. It doesn’t boost the economy as many of these 90,000 people will likely have to move onto the welfare system at least temporarily. Furthermore, civil servants aren’t all based in Westminster, civil servants are prison officers, they’re biologists etc. 

Reads as if they're not actually making people redundant, but using natural attrition? On that basis, it would take years to hit the 90K target.. just more distraction headlines really.

[Lionator]

6 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

Reads as if they're not actually making people redundant, but using natural attrition? On that basis, it would take years to hit the 90K target.. just more distraction headlines really.

Both sides are basically utilising it to their own advantage. 

[Alf Bentley]

59 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Isn’t Ed Balls supposed to be standing for it? Probably related to that. These local CLP is made up of socialists. 

 

Balls ruled himself out: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/22/ed-balls-rules-out-political-comeback-for-labour-in-wakefield-byelection

[Alf Bentley]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

 

I presume the motivation for these planned 91,000 civil service job cuts is:

1) Johnson's personal position is vulnerable, so he's chucking some red meat to his right-wing backbenchers, who believe "private good, public bad", "tax cuts good, public spending bad". It will protect him against leadership challenges.

2) He sees it as a way of squirreling away funds to be splashed as pre-election tax cuts and other bribes to the electorate in 2023-24.

 

Interesting that, once again, the aim is merely to cut staffing back to 2016 levels - and that the 91,000 increase since then has mainly been due to Brexit and Covid.

 

Presumably, there could now be some reduction in Covid staffing, though surely a lot of that would have been short-term anyway - and some of the staff will need to be retained as Covid hasn't entirely disappeared.

 

But how much of the extra staffing generated by Brexit can be eliminated? Maybe some researchers/administrators needed for the Brexit negotiations would now be superfluous....but the Queen's Speech announced that seeking Brexit benefits was to be a political priority. Surely, they'll need some people to research what the benefits might be?

 

Then there's our repeated postponement of post-Brexit checks on EU imports. The EU prepared properly for Brexit and is now implementing all the extra Brexit red tape and checks on British exports that we wanted. But we're not doing likewise as we still haven't got the staff or systems to carry out all the extra checks on EU imports. This puts UK businesses, particularly exporters and domestic firms competing with EU imports, at a trading disadvantage.

 

Also, doesn't the Govt plan to build dozens of new hospitals and employ thousands of new police to replace those they previously got rid of? Don't they also plan a new venture to deport thousands of migrants to Rwanda? Won't they need a decent number of staff at Dept of Health for the hospitals, at the Home Office for the extra police and at the Border Force and legal departments for all the attempted deportations? And all that while apparently planning to trigger a trade war with the EU over the Northern Ireland Protocol that Johnson chose to sign up to....

 

But I suppose politics no longer exists within the realms of truth, rationality or public interest. It's all about PR bullshit, lies, cynical manoeuvring for personal power and moral (and arguably financial) corruption. In that regard, if maybe not in some others, Johnson really is "Britain Trump" as Trump himself said. I've never supported the Tories but have always before accepted that Tory PMs had a democratic mandate and were personally qualified, to varying degrees, to be in the job. Johnson is no more suited to be in 10 Downing Street than Jimmy fvcking Savile! 

 

 

[Lionator]

I know he’s not popular on these pages but he completely gets it like no other top level politician I’ve listened to. 
 

His plan for taxation in the same interview is also sensible. We reduce tax on workers, increase tax on wealth and introduce a land value tax to essentially either stop people hoarding land, or if they do, ensure they’re paying their fair share. 

[WigstonWanderer]

40 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

But how much of the extra staffing generated by Brexit can be eliminated? Maybe some researchers/administrators needed for the Brexit negotiations would now be superfluous....but the Queen's Speech announced that seeking Brexit benefits was to be a political priority. Surely, they'll need some people to research what the benefits might be?

Gonna need a lot of people for that

[Daggers]

4 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

What the fvck are Labour HQ playing at here? Have the last six years not happened to them?

 

 

CLP wanted a Corbynite who argues with Jews. I’m guessing Labour would prefer to win a General Election. 

[Voll Blau]

11 minutes ago, Daggers said:

CLP wanted a Corbynite who argues with Jews. I’m guessing Labour would prefer to win a General Election. 

Ah, that makes way more sense then. Thought from the Labour List article I'd shared they'd put all of the local names mentioned forward.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Daggers said:

CLP wanted a Corbynite who argues with Jews. I’m guessing Labour would prefer to win a General Election. 

A phrase my dad’s always used about the FA’s refusal to hire Clough as England boss because he would have done his own thing instead of what the FA wanted: “to them, there’s apparently something more important than winning”.

 

Another phrase coined by Stephen Fry a few years ago, “I believe one of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective”. 
 

Both are extremely applicable to Corbyn’s era IMO. 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

A phrase my dad’s always used about the FA’s refusal to hire Clough as England boss because he would have done his own thing instead of what the FA wanted: “to them, there’s apparently something more important than winning”.

 

Another phrase coined by Stephen Fry a few years ago, “I believe one of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective”. 
 

Both are extremely applicable to Corbyn’s era IMO. 

There is a section of the left that has always failed to understand "le mieux est l'ennemi du bien".

 

They'd rather lose with their principles than win and implement change. They don't understand politics. 

[fuchsntf]

On 10/05/2022 at 11:28, Innovindil said:

The **** sort of nonsense is this. 

 

Not allowed to slate other countries? Bollocks to that. You've got Filipinos voting in the son of a literal dictator. Muricans actively cheering on the regression of women's rights. Russians cheering on the slaughter of their neighbours. 

 

And you're angry because there's not been an Uprising because of some parties in downing street? Even though they've been actively criticised by almost everyone on here and stomped at the local elections. 

 

Get some perspective ffs. 

Perspective is keeping + making your own politicians accountable

[Silebyfox_89]

13 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

A phrase my dad’s always used about the FA’s refusal to hire Clough as England boss because he would have done his own thing instead of what the FA wanted: “to them, there’s apparently something more important than winning”.

 

Another phrase coined by Stephen Fry a few years ago, “I believe one of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective”. 
 

Both are extremely applicable to Corbyn’s era IMO. 

Good post.

 

Don't agree with Corbyn though, to extreme to the left and would have crashed and burned as a PM.

[leicsmac]

13 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

A phrase my dad’s always used about the FA’s refusal to hire Clough as England boss because he would have done his own thing instead of what the FA wanted: “to them, there’s apparently something more important than winning”.

 

Another phrase coined by Stephen Fry a few years ago, “I believe one of the greatest human failings is to prefer to be right than to be effective”. 
 

Both are extremely applicable to Corbyn’s era IMO. 

Principle is meaningless without the power to apply it, yes.

[leicsmac]

With respect to differences between theory/principle and practice, an additional quote from one of Terry Pratchett's characters in Raising Steam:

 

"...All those old boys wi’ their togas and sandals, they also invented the sine and cosine, not to mention your tangent! All that mathematics, which I love. And then there’s your quaderatics. Can’t get anywhere without quaderatics, can you? ‘And any road, they looked like a bunch of old guys who you’d think would do nowt more than lie about arguing about philosophy and then it turns out that all along they knew just about everything about, well, everything and just wrote it all down. Can you believe it? They ’ad it in their ’ands. They could’ve built a proper steam engine, and steam boats that didn’t explode. That’s academics for you. All that knowing and they went back to discussing t’beauty and truth of numbers and missed the fact that they’d discovered summat reet important."

 

That always resonated with me. It's not enough to know about things; you then have to put that knowledge to use for it to really mean something.

[ealingfox]

42 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Good post.

 

Don't agree with Corbyn though, to extreme to the left and would have crashed and burned as a PM.

 

No factual basis for saying that to be fair. Couldn't have done any worse than the organised crime syndicate we've got in charge and at least he'd have actually tried to make significant changes.

 

Sad thing is Corbyn's actual policy isn't even close to 'extreme' left. Just shows the power of the press that people believe that.

Edited 14 May 2022 by ealingfox

[Silebyfox_89]

57 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

No factual basis for saying that to be fair. Couldn't have done any worse than the organised crime syndicate we've got in charge and at least he'd have actually tried to make significant changes.

 

Sad thing is Corbyn's actual policy isn't even close to 'extreme' left. Just shows the power of the press that people believe that.

That may be true, its purely my opinion. I doubt he would of succeeded given the infighting within his own party and his opinions on topics like Brexit, Ireland and Russia. Socialism is largely rejected for good reason.

 

Yes the status quo is embarrassing but until there is a united and credible opposition what is the alternative? 

 

He wanted to change too much too soon (renationalising everything) and that doesn't sit well with the electorate.

 

I read multiple sources to gauge an opinion on Corbyn, the Tory press did a number on him but let's be honest he should never have been leader in the first place. He only got there due to a random surge in the membership process.

 

[urban.spaceman]

Boris you quite literally work from home mate.

 

 

 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, ealingfox said:

 

No factual basis for saying that to be fair. Couldn't have done any worse than the organised crime syndicate we've got in charge and at least he'd have actually tried to make significant changes.

 

Sad thing is Corbyn's actual policy isn't even close to 'extreme' left. Just shows the power of the press that people believe that.

Thank you for saving me a job. This, plus decades of 'ooo Commie Leftie' paranoia. 

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Principle is meaningless without the power to apply it, yes.

Being principled is fine, but being SO principled that you refuse to be pragmatic is utterly stupid and in Corbyn's case downright dangerous and disastrous for us all.

 

Which is why they're so ****ing predictable when they lose. "We won the argument", #CorbynWasRight trending every few weeks, unironically refusing to vote for Starmer then complaining about the Tories.

[Strokes]

3 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

Perspective is keeping + making your own politicians accountable

Where are you based again?

[Unabomber]

30 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Boris you quite literally work from home mate.

 

 

 

How can he say this? Loads of people work from home with no problem at all and in the process save on fuel, time etc.

[deep blue]

On 13/05/2022 at 09:47, urban.spaceman said:

What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

This calls for a special one-off program of "Yes Prime Minister".

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Being principled is fine, but being SO principled that you refuse to be pragmatic is utterly stupid and in Corbyn's case downright dangerous and disastrous for us all.

 

Which is why they're so ****ing predictable when they lose. "We won the argument", #CorbynWasRight trending every few weeks, unironically refusing to vote for Starmer then complaining about the Tories.

And "Bernie Bros" doing the same over the pond gave the world four years of Trump, with damage done during that has the potential to last decades.

 

And if that last part sounds hyperbolic, look at what Trumps Supreme Court picks are up to right now.

[fuchsntf]

32 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Where are you based again?

Not quite Heaven on Earth, but approaching those pearly gates,just stopped off for a breather, at a place where the travellers are still not sure if they are heading in the right direction..

Near enough one can hear st Peter cursing when turning back wishfull thinkers, then the kind words welcoming the...

"I can't believe it" brigade...

Eden has its flair..

[lgfualol]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Boris you quite literally work from home mate.

 

 

 

Bloke's just said this shit to include the word cheese, so when people search for his multiple illegal wine and cheese parties they potentially see this instead.