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The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

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3 hours ago, purpleronnie said:

we're all sturgeon aren't we?

I don't agree with Brexit and for the same reason I don't want Scottish independence, but if there's support for it and all the information is there and presented correctly then no issue on them voting, especially as the goalposts have moved since the last vote.

 

What I don't agree with her on is when I heard her complaining that it had been over 50 years since Scotlands votes had had an influence on the government in Westminster. Firstly that won't have been helped by the majority of their seats going to the SNP for the previous few elections, secondly why the hell should Scotlands vote be a huge influence on the government in Westminster? They are about 10% of the seats so it's not a major shock that who Scotland vote for isn't always the government in Westminster. Now I understand if she says she wants independence because they are never governed by who the country vote for but the fact Scotland isn't swaying the election is a poor argument.

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16 minutes ago, Daggers said:

He didn't though; he removed the Tories only card they could've played at the next election. It's the smartest move to make at the moment.

 

I don't know anyone serious who doesn't expect Labour to begin discussing closer ties with the EU - but you don't get to make those decisions until you've been elected and that remains the single most important thing to achieve in the first instance.

 

Everyone knows Brexit has been a flaming wheelbarrow of shit and lies, even those who still champion it. Starmer knows. Sturgeon knows he will act, it's just not in her interest to admit it.

He's said we won't rejoin the single market!!.. 

If Labour championed rejoining the single market and show the economic benefits this will bring to the Country I'm convinced this policy would be supported and they'd gain even more support... It's about time the economic hit we've taken over Brexshit is laid bare for all to see!!

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30 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

What I don't agree with her on is when I heard her complaining that it had been over 50 years since Scotlands votes had had an influence on the government in Westminster. Firstly that won't have been helped by the majority of their seats going to the SNP for the previous few elections, secondly why the hell should Scotlands vote be a huge influence on the government in Westminster? They are about 10% of the seats so it's not a major shock that who Scotland vote for isn't always the government in Westminster. Now I understand if she says she wants independence because they are never governed by who the country vote for but the fact Scotland isn't swaying the election is a poor argument.

Agree, while Blair and the rest of Labour did take the Scottish seats for granted for years New Labour did have a Scottish Chancellor who became PM and it did feel like there was a Scottish influence in the party at least. Cameron's gamble on the referendum and the success of the SNP since proves Sturgeon wrong too as we now have a voting system in which only one party can realistically form a majority government as I just don't see how Labour does it without the Scottish seats. While Scotland votes for the SNP it pretty much ensures a tory government so they have no incentive to offer a referendum as this is a perfect situation for them. It has pretty much backed Labour in to a corner of having to focus on English and Welsh votes too as the SNP are a liability with the tory press' influence in England (Strong and stable with me or chaos with Ed Milliband, lol). Like most gamblers he went back to the table one too many times to try and unite the tory party over Europe. I still don't think that Cameron gets anywhere near enough blame for the state of politics in this country by treating government like a casino table with no care of the consequences should it go wrong.

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29 minutes ago, weller54 said:

He's said we won't rejoin the single market!!.. 

If Labour championed rejoining the single market and show the economic benefits this will bring to the Country I'm convinced this policy would be supported and they'd gain even more support... It's about time the economic hit we've taken over Brexshit is laid bare for all to see!!

depends what the EU would allow.  with recent political results in italy, they cant afford to look like they will do weak deals - otherwise other countries may look to break away ...... 

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30 minutes ago, weller54 said:

He's said we won't rejoin the single market!!.. 

If Labour championed rejoining the single market and show the economic benefits this will bring to the Country I'm convinced this policy would be supported and they'd gain even more support... It's about time the economic hit we've taken over Brexshit is laid bare for all to see!!

 

50 minutes ago, Daggers said:

...he removed the Tories only card they could've played at the next election...

You're either a pragmatist about how best to win the next election or you aren't, I guess.

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1 hour ago, Daggers said:

He didn't though; he removed the Tories only card they could've played at the next election. It's the smartest move to make at the moment.

 

I don't know anyone serious who doesn't expect Labour to begin discussing closer ties with the EU - but you don't get to make those decisions until you've been elected and that remains the single most important thing to achieve in the first instance.

 

Everyone knows Brexit has been a flaming wheelbarrow of shit and lies, even those who still champion it. Starmer knows. Sturgeon knows he will act, it's just not in her interest to admit it.

Fair points, I hope you’re right.

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I would love to be back in the single market, but from a democracy point of view, I don't know if I would feel comfortable it being back on the agenda this soon. In the same way I wouldn't be happy about SNP getting to have another vote again so soon after the last independence vote. 

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I would expect Starmer to do everything he can to align our trade rules with the EU to make trade easier and to facilitate joining the single market. The manifesto/campaign promise will be to create easier trade with the EU and resolve the Irish border problem.

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2 hours ago, rachhere said:

I would love to be back in the single market, but from a democracy point of view, I don't know if I would feel comfortable it being back on the agenda this soon. In the same way I wouldn't be happy about SNP getting to have another vote again so soon after the last independence vote. 

Good luck to Scotland getting independence!!

They clearly didn't vote to be poorer by supporting Brexshit!!

They'll be immediately applying to rejoin the EU whilst the rest of the UK sinks deeper in the mire!!

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3 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Good luck to Scotland getting independence!!

They clearly didn't vote to be poorer by supporting Brexshit!!

They'll be immediately applying to rejoin the EU whilst the rest of the UK sinks deeper in the mire!!

Yeah, a fair point that things have significantly changed since the last independence vote. 

 

I don't know. I have no real solutions, other than go back in time and someone take out David Cameron. 

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31 minutes ago, rachhere said:

Yeah, a fair point that things have significantly changed since the last independence vote. 

 

I don't know. I have no real solutions, other than go back in time and someone take out David Cameron. 

Nadine Dorries would have been up for that I'm sure!

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