The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[bovril]

There is a lot to criticise the SNP for whatever your stance on Scottish indy. English liberals who blow smoke up Sturgeon's arse remind me of remainers who are blindly pro everything the EU does without really knowing or caring much about European countries. It's mostly about projecting an ideal self. Tbh they are mostly the same people.

[HybridFox]

Bet the Government won't give the extra bank holiday for the Coronation. Tight b*****s 

[weller54]

33 minutes ago, bovril said:

There is a lot to criticise the SNP for whatever your stance on Scottish indy. English liberals who blow smoke up Sturgeon's arse remind me of remainers who are blindly pro everything the EU does without really knowing or caring much about European countries. It's mostly about projecting an ideal self. Tbh they are mostly the same people.

Remainers are blindly pro EU??😂😂😂...

I would say Brexiteers are blind...

Deaf and dumb!!

 

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Markets everywhere are in daily decline. We’re on the brink of a global recession, the effects of which will be as bad as 2008 banking crisis. 

In that case let’s get rid of the absolute scum in government who will use it as an excuse to punish the poor even more and pilfer from the public purse even further.

[StanSP]

10 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Markets everywhere are in daily decline. We’re on the brink of a global recession, the effects of which will be as bad as 2008 banking crisis. 

Ffs, all Sturgeon's fault. 

[Zear0]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Ffs, all Sturgeon's fault. 

Last Labour government 

[StanSP]

 

[Fazzer 7]

27 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Ffs, all Sturgeon's fault. 

No, it’s a combination of things, Whoever thought closing the world’s economy and printing trillions in reaction to covid  would have no impact. Then obviously the Russian invasion is having a huge impact, and yes government incompetence is playing a part, but that’s only a small factor in the scheme of things. Still, it could be worse, France is literally running out of fuel due to strike action at refineries. 

[weller54]

40 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Ffs, all Sturgeon's fault. 

Fvcking Wellens!!!!

[filthyfox]

45 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Last Labour government 

...Brendan

[urban.spaceman]

 

[StanSP]

33 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

and yes government incompetence is playing a part, but that’s only a small factor in the scheme of things.

Big factor. 

[Jon the Hat]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Big factor. 

The tax cuts are ridiculous and unnecessary at this stage.  The support for fuel costs is hard to argue with.

[urban.spaceman]

58 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

No, it’s a combination of things, Whoever thought closing the world’s economy and printing trillions in reaction to covid  would have no impact. Then obviously the Russian invasion is having a huge impact, and yes government incompetence is playing a part, but that’s only a small factor in the scheme of things. Still, it could be worse, France is literally running out of fuel due to strike action at refineries. 

Government incompetence is *explicitly* responsible for every late and extended lockdown, every COVID spread, the failure to close the borders for 11 months,  over 200,000 deaths, the financial impact of furlough and so much more. 

[urban.spaceman]

The economy is now part of the anti growth coalition.

 

 

[Daggers]

This is all the fault of everyone who didn’t believe hard enough.

[foxes1988]

1 hour ago, Fazzer 7 said:

No, it’s a combination of things, Whoever thought closing the world’s economy and printing trillions in reaction to covid  would have no impact. Then obviously the Russian invasion is having a huge impact, and yes government incompetence is playing a part, but that’s only a small factor in the scheme of things. Still, it could be worse, France is literally running out of fuel due to strike action at refineries. 

I don't think you realise that this statement isn't really backing up the tories  it just makes them look even more incompetent.  The fact that left and right leaning/wing governments around the world all came to very very similar conclusion as to what to do during covid is a bit of a clue that there was no other real option.  Whats really stupid/incompetent is this tory government which was in charge at the time of covid are the ones who seem to think that it would have no impact or that the way to solve this debt problem is to give tax cuts by driving up government debt 

 

44 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

The tax cuts are ridiculous and unnecessary at this stage.  The support for fuel costs is hard to argue with.

Couldn't agree more.  The world markets/IMF/BoE/pension funds are reactions to the tax cuts rather then the extra borrowing for the fuel cost support.

Edited 12 October 2022 by foxes1988

[Sampson]

4 minutes ago, foxes1988 said:

I don't think you realise that this statement isn't really backing up the tories  it just makes them look even more incompetent.  The fact that left and right leaning/wing governments around the world all come to very very similar conclusion as to what to do during covid is a bit of a clue that there was no other real option.  Whats really stupid/incompetent is this tory government which was in charge at the time of covid are the ones who seem to think that it would have no impact or that the way to solve this debt problem is to give tax cuts by driving up government debt 

 

Couldn't agree more.  The world markets/IMF/BoE/pension funds are reactions to the tax cuts rather then the extra borrowing for the fuel cost support.

I think you forget that the IMF/BoE and international markets are all just bullshitting. They’re all in on it trying to create a globalised elite and destroy the concept of the nation state and wipe out the Little Englander or something 

[StanSP]

6 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I think you forget that the IMF/BoE and international markets are all just bullshitting. They’re all in on it trying to create a globalised elite and destroy the concept of the nation state and wipe out the Little Englander or something 

They're part of the anti-growth coalition too, aren't they? 

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, StanSP said:

They're part of the anti-growth coalition too, aren't they? 

 

37 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I think you forget that the IMF/BoE and international markets are all just bullshitting. They’re all in on it trying to create a globalised elite and destroy the concept of the nation state and wipe out the Little Englander or something 

Exactly.

 

They're just shit at actually doing much to get the conspiracy right, given current evidence.

[weller54]

41 minutes ago, StanSP said:

They're part of the anti-growth coalition too, aren't they? 

I'm part of the AGC and so is my wife.

[Scotch]

19 hours ago, Facecloth said:

I don't agree with Brexit and for the same reason I don't want Scottish independence, but if there's support for it and all the information is there and presented correctly then no issue on them voting, especially as the goalposts have moved since the last vote.

 

What I don't agree with her on is when I heard her complaining that it had been over 50 years since Scotlands votes had had an influence on the government in Westminster. Firstly that won't have been helped by the majority of their seats going to the SNP for the previous few elections, secondly why the hell should Scotlands vote be a huge influence on the government in Westminster? They are about 10% of the seats so it's not a major shock that who Scotland vote for isn't always the government in Westminster. Now I understand if she says she wants independence because they are never governed by who the country vote for but the fact Scotland isn't swaying the election is a poor argument.

I'm not sure I agree with your bit about the SNP vote costing Labour votes that would have made a difference. Going back to 2010, when the tories came in, even if every constituency in Scotland had been red, it still wouldn't be enough to keep the conservatives out of power. That argument would only helave been valid had Labour presented more of a challenge. 

 

On your second point. I think that is the argument that is being made. Scotland make up a small part of the UK so their votes reflect that but with such a dramatic difference in the way of thinking between scotlands general population and the rest of the UK, the current Union doesn't work for us. We are not saying that we should have more of a voice in picking the leader of the UK, we are saying that we should have more of a voice in picking who rules Scotland and the only fair way to do that is leaving. I don't think it's wild to suggest that whoever rules the country should represent the voice of that countries people and that's clearly not happening as is evident from the Tories repeated victories or even the result of the Brexit ref. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Daggers]

Paraphrasing S. Lee esq.: "It wasn't just ***** who voted for poverty, thick twats did too."

 

 

[Dunge]

21 minutes ago, Scotch said:

I'm not sure I agree with your bit about the SNP vote costing Labour votes that would have made a difference. Going back to 2010, when the tories came in, even if every constituency in Scotland had been red, it still wouldn't be enough to keep the conservatives out of power. That argument would only helave been valid had Labour presented more of a challenge. 

 

On your second point. I think that is the argument that is being made. Scotland make up a small part of the UK so their votes reflect that but with such a dramatic difference in the way of thinking between scotlands general population and the rest of the UK, the current Union doesn't work for us. We are not saying that we should have more of a voice in picking the leader of the UK, we are saying that we should have more of a voice in picking who rules Scotland and the only fair way to do that is leaving. I don't think it's wild to suggest that whoever rules the country should represent the voice of that countries people and that's clearly not happening as is evident from the Tories repeated victories or even the result of the Brexit ref. 

I think there’s another subtle factor at play though. One of the “dangers” for me of voting Labour in the past was a Labour/SNP coalition. While I begrudgingly admire Nicola Sturgeon as a politician - she’s an effective communicator and leader for her party/cause - I rarely like their policies, and particularly those that they state as red lines going into a negotiation. I have been of the belief in the past that Labour leaders of the time (Miliband and Corbyn) would have caved to her demands to get a working majority. I’m not sure about Starmer, but I’m hopeful he won’t find himself in that situation.

 

But that, to me, is a less obvious way that the SNP - and specifically the strength of the SNP - can cost Labour votes. Because we know for sure that the Conservatives wouldn’t make a deal with them.