The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[zorro en españa]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

She probably didnt understand the question

 

i'm totally confused.  she keeps saying that their energy plan was effectively the mini budget. claiming that the other parties had no plan. and yet she isn't being corrected.

a) other parties all mooted their plans long before and if truss/sunak announced that something would be done during the leadership hustings then we may have avoided  negative growth in august with the public reassured to some extent.

b) the cost of the energy subsidy is eye watering but not the reason for the markets going nuts. investors can understand the reasoning for having to borrow to fund this

its not ideal for them as they would prefer a small part of the cost being taken by windfall taxes but they understand. the energy subsidy was announced pre the queens passing. the markets didn't have a panic. it was all the other unfunded measures they announced with no OBR report. 

 

there is so much to beat them with and yet starmer and blackford are leaving the door open for her to repeat her stock answer every time they ask a question.

To be fair - every question she gets asked that IS her stock answer.  There is NOTHING else in the cupboard.

 

Starmer was clearly exasperated at one point.  BTW - thought Blackford’s questions were good

[st albans fox]

21 minutes ago, zorro en españa said:

To be fair - every question she gets asked that IS her stock answer.  There is NOTHING else in the cupboard.

 

Starmer was clearly exasperated at one point.  BTW - thought Blackford’s questions were good

But they allow her to claim that she’s done a wonderful thing re the energy subsidy when it’s the same as almost every country in europe has done and she did it a month later at least. She has no alternative. why allow her any kudos for it ……

[Parafox]

Whenever I read all the intellectual, responsible, educated posts on this topic I can't believe that some posters might be the same ones that shout:

 

 

Edited 12 October 2022 by Parafox

[orangecity23]

6 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Whenever I read all the intellectual, responsible, educated posts on this topic Ican't believe that some posters might be the ones that shout:

 

 

Keir Starmer should try this out at PMQs. Truss won't have an answer, there's no arguing against the clear facts 1. She is a twat. 2. She's shit.

If she gets subbed off, the house could come together for a bipartisan round of left side/right side over here to unite the nation.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, rachhere said:

Anyone got a dummies guide to economic policy to lend them?

It’s reminding me of those scenes in the Wire where Caretti is trying to balance the books except that actually feels more real than this GCSE Economics level attempt 

[Fazzer 7]

47 minutes ago, Captain... said:

We're also not the only country actively looking to reduce our emissions. Lots of European countries are on a similar path, some are further ahead than us, others have further to go but most of the EU countries are signed up to reducing emissions significantly and that historically accounted for 23% of global emissions but is now down to around 6.5% thanks in part to all these reductions. 

 

I will never understand the argument that someone being worse than you means you shouldn't try to be better.

I don’t dispute anything you claim or @Captain... for that matter. My point being, is whatever this country does will make little or no difference in terms of current global emissions. I’m all for this country being innovators in Green matters and developing environmental and carbon reducing technologies etc. But stuff like phasing out fossil fuel generated electricity by 2030 is madness imo. 

[CosbehFox]

57 minutes ago, Captain... said:

We're also not the only country actively looking to reduce our emissions. Lots of European countries are on a similar path, some are further ahead than us, others have further to go but most of the EU countries are signed up to reducing emissions significantly and that historically accounted for 23% of global emissions but is now down to around 6.5% thanks in part to all these reductions. 

 

I will never understand the argument that someone being worse than you means you shouldn't try to be better.

Get defence of the irrational opinion - whataboutery 

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I don’t dispute anything you claim or @Captain... for that matter. My point being, is whatever this country does will make little or no difference in terms of current global emissions. I’m all for this country being innovators in Green matters and developing environmental and carbon reducing technologies etc. But stuff like phasing out fossil fuel generated electricity by 2030 is madness imo. 

What about if the UK through their commitment developed technology what could be sold world wide? You need the motivating factor
 

Why not actually set our stall out to be ‘world leading’? Particularly given that at this moment in time, it would have a direct impact on every household in the UK too 

Edited 12 October 2022 by CosbehFox

[Dahnsouff]

30 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

But they allow her to claim that she’s done a wonderful thing re the energy subsidy when it’s the same as almost every country in europe has done and she did it a month later at least. She has no alternative. why allow her any kudos for it ……

They cocked up massively not waiting for and publishing the OBR but the energy subsidy regardless who else did it, is a good thing, no?

[urban.spaceman]

They actually believe they had a good reputation.

 

 

 

[StanSP]

She's just so, so, so uninspiring. To those within her own party. 

Let alone everyone else. 

 

[weller54]

11 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

They actually believe they had a good reputation.

 

 

 

She's absolutely clueless and completely incompetent....but Rodgers will still be in a job long after she's sacked!

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

They cocked up massively not waiting for and publishing the OBR but the energy subsidy regardless who else did it, is a good thing, no?

she spent the whole of august saying she wouldn’t commit to helping 

hence the vast majority of the population spent the whole of august worrying how they would pay their energy bills this winter

 

All other major parties had already put forward a similar policy 

 

as I said, most western nations had already announced this policy 

 

I can’t give them any credit for it - they had no alternative options 

 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, st albans fox said:

she spent the whole of august saying she wouldn’t commit to helping 

hence the vast majority of the population spent the whole of august worrying how they would pay their energy bills this winter

 

All other major parties had already put forward a similar policy 

 

as I said, most western nations had already announced this policy 

 

I can’t give them any credit for it - they had no alternative options 

So they would get the same amount of credit if they had not introduced it? They don’t get credit for thinking it up,  but they did the right thing eventually, albeit they had to be lead, it was still the right thing though, as personally I would think less of the Government if they had not seen sense.
 

And why couldn’t Starmer say ‘Yes it was the right thing (to add the energy subsidy)’ and then castigate the government for being tardy in introducing it, he had the ideal chance to stick the knife in, but didn’t to any substantial level.

[Finnegan]

38 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

They actually believe they had a good reputation.

 

 

 

 

 

"Ten years of work, the party that looks after the interests of working people."

 

Holy shit

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So they would get the same amount of credit if they had not introduced it? They don’t get credit for thinking it up,  but they did the right thing eventually, albeit they had to be lead, it was still the right thing though, as personally I would think less of the Government if they had not seen sense.
 

And why couldn’t Starmer say ‘Yes it was the right thing (to add the energy subsidy)’ and then castigate the government for being tardy in introducing it, he had the ideal chance to stick the knife in, but didn’t to any substantial level.

Starmer did eventually comment that the energy subsidy was labour policy 

if they hadn’t done anything then we would be looking at a v deep recession next year along with 15-18% inflation. growth for 2023 would be non existent because people would have no disposable income, irrespective of any tax cuts.  

She was unlucky that the death of the monarch took away all the attention from the  policy announcement 

 

but she is conflating the energy announcement made 8th sept with the mini budget measures announced 23 sept. (Business support was leaked 22 sept). 

 

if she wasn’t doing this then I probably would give them more credit for the policy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Starmer did eventually comment that the energy subsidy was labour policy 

if they hadn’t done anything then we would be looking at a v deep recession next year along with 15-18% inflation. growth for 2023 would be non existent because people would have no disposable income, irrespective of any tax cuts.  

She was unlucky that the death of the monarch took away all the attention from the  policy announcement 

 

but she is conflating the energy announcement made 8th sept with the mini budget measures announced 23 sept. (Business support was leaked 22 sept). 

 

if she wasn’t doing this then I probably would give them more credit for the policy. 

As soon as there was no OBR report you just knew it was going to be carnage.  

 

Markets being notoriously resilient to uncertainty…..

[st albans fox]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

As soon as there was no OBR report you just knew it was going to be carnage.  

 

Markets being notoriously resilient to uncertainty…..

Without the additional tax cuts, there probably wasn’t any need for the report at that point. 

 

the NI cut and the CT cut was long trailed. The lack of an OBR report had already been announced. The markets weren’t panicking at that point. They panicked at the pulling forward by twelve months of income tax to 19p, the 45p abolition and the stamp duty adjustments  - with no OBR assessment. And then the comment on Sunday by KK that he hadn’t finished yet ! 

[rachhere]

I completely missed this: 

Is this real? Or is it more complex than Greenpeace are portraying?

[Zear0]

1 minute ago, rachhere said:

I completely missed this: 

Is this real? Or is it more complex than Greenpeace are portraying?

This is what the whole thing has been. A hit on the energy producers and not the gas producers. Any claim that this is equivalent to Labour's, or Europe's, windfall is way off the mark. 

 

Its a disgrace. 

[st albans fox]

39 minutes ago, rachhere said:

I completely missed this: 

Is this real? Or is it more complex than Greenpeace are portraying?

I think the reason is that the green energy producers are generating power at a price like $20 per unit cost and receiving $150, whereas the fossil fuel producers are paying  $120 and receiving $150 

 

the numbers are made up by me but still an indication that the renewable sector is making much much larger margins than the gas/oil sector 

[Daggers]

 

[StanSP]

Prince Charles saying 'back again' to Truss in the most disappointed way is golden

 

[Corky]

10 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Didn't need it anyway, We'll do it alone from now on. Go Tories!

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

Didn't need it anyway, We'll do it alone from now on. Go Tories!

The tea plantations of Yorkshire will see us through ?  I can get Yorkshire tea at the co op ….