The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[FoxesDeb]

37 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

She would be proud

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

Education 

How does one afford/find the time for education if one is in poverty and working 60 hour weeks while also having a family to raise?

Edited 17 May 2022 by Sampson

[Charl91]

1 hour ago, FoxesDeb said:

Education 

Its a bit of a 0 sum game though. Education may allow you to get a better job, but often at the expense of someone else.  There are only finite "well paying" jobs. 

 

What I was alluding too (and Bryn says it better than I can) is that until there is huge systematic reform, there will always be "crappy" jobs that, while essential to our functioning as a society, will continue to be underpaid to the point where the people doing them are in poverty. 

 

So, to bring it back to the Jack Munroe point that I quoted earlier, it's a bizarre criticism to level at her to say "why is she teaching people how to live in poverty, not escape it" when there's no great solution on how to eradicate poverty on a population-wide level. Yeah she can give hints on how to do well at getting a better paid job, but if you get it then it's at the expense of some other poor bugger. 

 

I dont know much about Jack Munroe to be honest, but just based on what I hear on here, sounds like she should be applauded. 

 

 

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, Charl91 said:

So how does one get away from poverty? 

Onlyfans 

[FoxesDeb]

Just now, Sampson said:

How does one afford education if one is in poverty?

Education is freely available in schools to all, whether people are living in poverty or not. The things people are taught could no doubt be bettered, but education is the key. Education is also available elsewhere, again mostly available to those in poverty. 

[Charl91]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Onlyfans 

Fair. I have thought about being a 'content creator', but I was worried about becoming too rich. 

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

Education is freely available in schools to all, whether people are living in poverty or not. The things people are taught could no doubt be bettered, but education is the key. Education is also available elsewhere, again mostly available to those in poverty. 

It's only freely available to those under the age of 19. Not to those over. And even many things one becomes educated for in work could well be obsolete in a person's working lifetime.

Edited 17 May 2022 by Sampson

[FoxesDeb]

2 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

Its a bit of a 0 sum game though. Education may allow you to get a better job, but often at the expense of someone else.  There are only finite "well paying" jobs. 

 

What I was alluding too (and Bryn says it better than I can) is that until there is huge systematic reform, there will always be "crappy" jobs that, while essential to our functioning as a society, will continue to be underpaid to the point where the people doing them are in poverty. 

 

So, to bring it back to the Jack Munroe point that I quoted earlier, it's a bizarre criticism to level at her to say "why is she teaching people how to live in poverty, not escape it" when there's no great solution on how to eradicate poverty on a population-wide level. Yeah she can give hints on how to do well at getting a better paid job, but if you get it then it's at the expense of some other poor bugger. 

 

I dont know much about Jack Munroe to be honest, but just based on what I hear on here, sounds like she should be applauded. 

 

 

Education is not just about getting a better job though, is it? Education teaches people how to budget, how to eat better, there are many more forms of education than simply 'university to get a better job' 

[Sampson]

3 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

Education is not just about getting a better job though, is it? Education teaches people how to budget, how to eat better, there are many more forms of education than simply 'university to get a better job' 

What happens if you've been educated to budget, eat well, perform great tasks which suit your particular skill sets, say, as an engineer for example, but then find out 10 years after graduating, all your skills are now performed by computers and your skills are essentially obsolete in the work place? You have hereditary back problems so can't do manual labour and are dyslexic so can't really do much office admin work either.

Yet you have a partner and 2 kids to feed and rent or a mortgage to pay so need work asap and can't afford nor have the time to completely retrain in something else, which may take years and be extremely expensive.

Edited 17 May 2022 by Sampson

[FoxesDeb]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

No it doesn't, and that's a big part of the problem. The education system in this country only suits those who want to go to university. The only skills that I use from school now are basic IT, English and Maths and the social skills you learn from interacting with people. Opportunities for those who want to do anything other than go to uni are extremely limited. 

 

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

What happens if you've been educated to budget, eat well, perform great tasks which suit your particular skill sets, say, as an engineer for example, but then find out 10 years after graduating, all your skills are now performed by computers and your skills are essentially obsolete in the work place? You have hereditary back problems so can't do manual labour and are dyslexic so can't really do much office admin work either.

Yet you have a partner and 2 kids to feed and rent or a mortgage to pay so need work asap and can't afford nor have the time to completely retrain in something else, which may take years and be extremely expensive.

Situations like that are why we have Universal Credit, housing benefit, council tax benefit and child benefit I would think, all of which I have been a recipient of in the past. 

[FoxesDeb]

5 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

No it doesn't, and that's a big part of the problem. The education system in this country only suits those who want to go to university. The only skills that I use from school now are basic IT, English and Maths and the social skills you learn from interacting with people. Opportunities for those who want to do anything other than go to uni are extremely limited. 

Education doesn't just mean formal education though, we're not just talking about school. But definitely the formal education system does need to include basics like this. 

[kenny]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

Education doesn't just mean formal education though, we're not just talking about school. But definitely the formal education system does need to include basics like this. 

It often doesn't teach aspiration either. This is a country of opportunity for people to better themselves but believe the 'system' works against them to keep them where they came from which isn't the case in my experience.

[Bryn]

Education is part of the answer.

 

I believe socialism is a big part of the answer. And I'm not one of these who was a wannabe commie with a Che Guevara t-shirt (I did actually have one tbf but it wasn't something I was really into) in my formative years, I don't believe in getting something for nothing. But the global economy will fail at the level of the masses without change and I think serious redistribution of wealth and regulation of industry is needed for society (again, at the level of the masses) to avoid collapse.

 

At this stage I would advocate strongly for a universal basic income and increased worker ownership/share in the profits of business. I see that as the only way you could possibly maintain growth whilst allowing for increased standard of living for all and for a movement to protect against worsening of climate change and the other existential crises we're going to face.

 

The alternative is a two-tier system of the ultra-wealthy (and I mean ultra-wealthy) having a good quality of life and everyone else including people on middle income seriously struggling and eventually collapsing.

Edited 17 May 2022 by Bryn

[Greg2607]

It's a bit of a sh*Tstorm at the minute isn't it.... I'm in a really fortunate position, that I work for an employer that gives us an annual payrise... this year, mine was 4%.   just done a quick calculation to see what that means in terms of month to month increase versus current situation... 

 

Well..... as a result of the NI change.... it makes me £90 a month worse off! lol. 

 

between me and my wife, we have just had a 15% rise in our Gross Pay which has resulted in a net uplift of £100 a month. 

 

Now don't get me wrong, i'm really lucky to have a payrise at all, i'm lucky that my wife has a great job as well.  I dread to think what it is like for large parts of the population that don't have a payrise and can't just "get a better job".... 

 

[Zear0]

How do we fix it? No idea, but I'd suggest we start by stop blaming the poor as if this is their fault and it's all because they can't cook or are too dim. This is a consequence of our economic model and I'd suggest it could be fixed if people wanted to. Problem is, it'd cost them and therefore they don't. 

Edited 17 May 2022 by Zear0

[Fox in the North]

 

[StanSP]

Not even suspended, just asked to stay away? 

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

If he's charging £10 per egg, I can see some competition entering the market. I might jump on a train myself and set up a stall charging £5 per egg.

The whole green could be covered in competing egg stalls, representing the epitome of deregulated free market capitalism.

Maybe whichever stallholder ultimately achieves market monopoly will open a Grantham grocer's shop and his/her daughter will grow up to become PM and ruin the country.

[Facecloth]

28 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not even suspended, just asked to stay away? 

On going investigation, I think suspension would mean the name is released which the police aren't doing at this moment. So I suppose it makes sense.

[Lionator]

The problem is rampant capitalism. Capitalism itself isn’t a problem, but tonight in the House of Commons we’ve seen the worst of capitalism. The windfall tax should be put in place. I cannot think of a single reason why taxing oil and gas companies more isn’t seen as a solution for the government? This doesn’t benefit anybody apart from multi billionaire CEO’s. It laughs in the face of everybody on this forum and 99.9% of the population who are facing increased inflation and increased taxation. It’s utterly, utterly shameful. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

2 hours ago, Fox in the North said:

 

I've mentioned it before but ages ago there was a bloke who I think was a Labour MP saying on Radio 4 that sexually exploiting end abusing junior staff, especially unpaid interns, was rife on both sides of the house and one day it would become a massive scandal and everyone would be astonished how it had gone on for so long.

 

Whenever I see something like this I wonder if it's the beginning of it coming to light

[Izzy]

13 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

As a young adult, it’s really hard to plan for the future and have aspirations when you feel like it’s only going to end in disappointment. Don’t get me wrong, I still apply myself to my career etc. and want to be successful/comfortable, but it’s not very inspiring when the only people that seem to do well are the ones who were already in a more privileged position than yourself, anyway. 

Depends what you mean by 'do well'. As in do well financially? 

 

There's plenty of examples of people who've done well for themselves who don't come from a privileged background. Of course there's an element of luck involved as LeicsMac will do doubt come along and tell us, but you can still have a successful/comfortable life without being born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

 

How about being inspired by the likes of Ben Francis who set up Gym Shark after delivering pizza's or Steven Bartlett off Dragons Den who dropped out of Uni instead?

 

[Bryn]

58 minutes ago, Lionator said:

The problem is rampant capitalism. Capitalism itself isn’t a problem, but tonight in the House of Commons we’ve seen the worst of capitalism. The windfall tax should be put in place. I cannot think of a single reason why taxing oil and gas companies more isn’t seen as a solution for the government? This doesn’t benefit anybody apart from multi billionaire CEO’s. It laughs in the face of everybody on this forum and 99.9% of the population who are facing increased inflation and increased taxation. It’s utterly, utterly shameful. 

Because they’re threatening to withhold investment if they’re taxed, and our energy sector does need investment.

 

In fairness, it isn’t just CEOs, a lot of fairly normal people’s pensions are invested into the energy sector.

[HighPeakFox]

I have come to believe that education's primary objective should be to teach you how to learn - so that the learning continues throughout life. There is too much disdain for good education generally, and too many people just don't want to learn and have their limited thinking challenged.

 

And yes, I am sure I am often guilty of this too.

[bovril]

I think people are overthinking this a little bit. The current crisis is caused by events out of our hands but also a series of appalling but deliberate choices by the government to make us poorer.