The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[urban.spaceman]

(like oil heiress Aileen Getty)

 

https://www.climateemergencyfund.org/aileen-getty

[urban.spaceman]

(I'm not saying you're being manipulated to dislike climate change activists and therefore be indifferent to the very real and serious issues about climate change, but...)

[Fazzer 7]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Here's their website if you want to donate:

 

https://juststopoil.org

I bet you have a monthly standing order. 

[Fazzer 7]

11 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I bet you have a monthly standing order. 

You do don’t you😂

[urban.spaceman]

10 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

You do don’t you😂

No.

[Fazzer 7]

32 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

No.

What a disappointment. 

[Dahnsouff]

8 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

What a disappointment. 

Although I would maintain that X number of people writing letters to the government would be more effective than X number of people chucking paint, it is wrong to suppress people, especially those whose futures are most at risk. 

[bovril]

Everything in this country revolves around Conservative Party psychodramas. We're indirectly involved in a land war in Europe and we may not even avoid blackouts this winter and we're still wondering who's going to be the next PM in a couple of weeks time. Utter twats, deserve to be out of power not for a generation but forever. 

[Fazzer 7]

42 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Although I would maintain that X number of people writing letters to the government would be more effective than X number of people chucking paint, it is wrong to suppress people, especially those whose futures are most at risk. 

I’ve no beef with protesting it’s a fundamental right. But what these idiots are doing is unlawful it’s as simple as that. 

[Fox in the North]

1 hour ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I’ve no beef with protesting it’s a fundamental right. But what these idiots are doing is unlawful it’s as simple as that. 

Shouldn’t matter to you as the party you support has been unlawful on numerous occasions.

[zorro en españa]

I see the Chairman of Tesco has said: "I don’t think we’ve seen a growth plan from the Tories. We’ve seen the beginnings of a quite plausible growth plan from Labour. Many of their ideas are actionable and attractive."

 

It got me thinking - since the Brexit Referendum there has been no strategic planning from the Government.  It went alone in “delivering” an outcome IT wanted with little consideration about what would be the best implementation policy for the country.  If the plan was to divide the country I suppose you can say it succeeded, I regret to say (even in jest).

 

Then came the Pandemic.  I would be magnanimous enough to concede it was a challenge but the bungling and bumbling throughout shone a light on the Government’s lack of any strategy and the waste of taxpayer monies was extraordinary (Nightingale Hospitals as one of many, many illustrations).  If the “plan” was to ensure their “mates” benefitted from dodgy contracts there appears to be a lot of evidence to suggest this was an outcome.

 

So we get a new leader who in her infinite wisdom decides that cutting taxes, removing the cap on bankers’ bonuses, will increase the national income and thus preserve the public purse.  Every economic indicator suggested this was a ludicrous step.  Not surprisingly the markets spooked, the pound took a kicking and the BoE had to shore up the market (esp pension funds) to the tune of a potential £65bn.

 

The reality is no one knows where this Government is going.  It would be offensive to think it can get away with simply replacing Truss without going to the electorate.  If they do it needs to be called out big time.

[rachhere]

11 minutes ago, zorro en españa said:

I see the Chairman of Tesco has said: "I don’t think we’ve seen a growth plan from the Tories. We’ve seen the beginnings of a quite plausible growth plan from Labour. Many of their ideas are actionable and attractive."

 

It got me thinking - since the Brexit Referendum there has been no strategic planning from the Government.  It went alone in “delivering” an outcome IT wanted with little consideration about what would be the best implementation policy for the country.  If the plan was to divide the country I suppose you can say it succeeded, I regret to say (even in jest).

 

Then came the Pandemic.  I would be magnanimous enough to concede it was a challenge but the bungling and bumbling throughout shone a light on the Government’s lack of any strategy and the waste of taxpayer monies was extraordinary (Nightingale Hospitals as one of many, many illustrations).  If the “plan” was to ensure their “mates” benefitted from dodgy contracts there appears to be a lot of evidence to suggest this was an outcome.

 

So we get a new leader who in her infinite wisdom decides that cutting taxes, removing the cap on bankers’ bonuses, will increase the national income and thus preserve the public purse.  Every economic indicator suggested this was a ludicrous step.  Not surprisingly the markets spooked, the pound took a kicking and the BoE had to shore up the market (esp pension funds) to the tune of a potential £65bn.

 

The reality is no one knows where this Government is going.  It would be offensive to think it can get away with simply replacing Truss without going to the electorate.  If they do it needs to be called out big time.

I think this sums it up really - they present ideology, but no clear strategy. 

[Captain...]

10 hours ago, rachhere said:

I remember growing up that you would often see people on the streets with leaflets looking to educate people on things like animal cruelty. It did have an impact on me as a kid, and my friend became a veggie back in the 90s as a result of those conversations as well. I just don’t see anything like that these days - it’s all about making big statements without the substance. I completely believe change is necessary - but this is not the way to go about it. Why don’t they stand outside supermarkets and talk with people and give out information about alternatives to cows milk and why it’s important. 

 

I remember growing up with people throwing red paint on models wearing fur coats, (fur farming is now illegal in the UK and heavily restricted on imports) breaking into animal testing facilities and freeing animals (comestic testing on animals is now banned in the UK) and Swampy living in tunnels to stop bypasses and runways (non of his protests were specifically successful but he did raise awareness).

 

Yes there were probably leaflet campaigns, but I don't remember a single one. I also did not grow up in an age of unlimited information at my finger tips. Everyone is already well entrenched in their echo chambers so a well worded leaflet is not going to capture anyone's attention. Pouring milk on the floor or throwing soup on a painting might, of course it might turn people off the messengers, but maybe not the message. Maybe it gets enough people talking to have an impact. Maybe not, but whilst I don't condone these actions I won't condemn them for trying to do something, because all of this scientific research and empty promises isn't getting us far enough quick enough.

 

(I've clarified my position in a previous thread, I don't believe in the extreme views but I do think we can all reduce our impact to maintain a sustainable, balanced healthy, cruelty free, exploitation free approach to energy, farming, housing etc)

 

5 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Dear lord, what is happening to this Country.

 

https://twitter.com/Erstwhilian/status/1581619502978326530?s=20&t=-UmQ5T9U126MUt2TK-Z7Ug

Try to ignore the messenger and the delivery, but still listen to the message. It's important. If you can prove that what they is saying is not true then I will condemn them as vandals. It sounds very much like we are being lied to, again, about our government's commitment to tackling climate change, it is our future and our children's and grandchildren's futures that are at risk.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/19/uk-has-approved-several-fossil-fuel-projects-since-cop26-analysis-finds

 

Here is a well researched article saying the same thing, but you probably haven't  seen this (I hadn't until I today, but was aware of these new licenses, but not the scale), so somebody throwing paint over a luxury car dealership means you have at least heard it, even if you disagree with the method of delivering the message to the detriment of the message you've still actually heard it.

Edited 16 October 2022 by Captain...

[rachhere]

48 minutes ago, Captain... said:

 

I remember growing up with people throwing red paint on models wearing fur coats, (fur farming is now illegal in the UK and heavily restricted on imports) breaking into animal testing facilities and freeing animals (comestic testing on animals is now banned in the UK) and Swampy living in tunnels to stop bypasses and runways (non of his protests were specifically successful but he did raise awareness).

 

Yes there were probably leaflet campaigns, but I don't remember a single one. I also did not grow up in an age of unlimited information at my finger tips. Everyone is already well entrenched in their echo chambers so a well worded leaflet is not going to capture anyone's attention. Pouring milk on the floor or throwing soup on a painting might, of course it might turn people off the messengers, but maybe not the message. Maybe it gets enough people talking to have an impact. Maybe not, but whilst I don't condone these actions I won't condemn them for trying to do something, because all of this scientific research and empty promises isn't getting us far enough quick enough.

 

(I've clarified my position in a previous thread, I don't believe in the extreme views but I do think we can all reduce our impact to maintain a sustainable, balanced healthy, cruelty free, exploitation free approach to energy, farming, housing etc)

 

Try to ignore the messenger and the delivery, but still listen to the message. It's important. If you can prove that what they is saying is not true then I will condemn them as vandals. It sounds very much like we are being lied to, again, about our government's commitment to tackling climate change, it is our future and our children's and grandchildren's futures that are at risk.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/19/uk-has-approved-several-fossil-fuel-projects-since-cop26-analysis-finds

 

Here is a well researched article saying the same thing, but you probably haven't  seen this (I hadn't until I today, but was aware of these new licenses, but not the scale), so somebody throwing paint over a luxury car dealership means you have at least heard it, even if you disagree with the method of delivering the message to the detriment of the message you've still actually heard it.

I am in no way saying I disagree with the cause - its the way of communication that is the issue. This country and this world has an enormous job on it's hands (enormous isn't even the word here - its of a magnitude that words can't quite capture it) in ensuring that policy makers make smart decisions for the future. But it's like in business where if you try to enforce change without your staff buying into or understanding the vision, you are setting yourself up to fail. 

 

Right now we have such crazy inequality across society that we have ended up with deep rooted focus on self. We see this all the time with attitudes towards asylum seekers, people on benefits, and on giving foreign aid. I think it's fair to say that in that context a huge proportion of the population are not going to react well to actions like we have seen from these protesters - especially in situations where it will inconvenience them. 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

 

I remember growing up with people throwing red paint on models wearing fur coats, (fur farming is now illegal in the UK and heavily restricted on imports) breaking into animal testing facilities and freeing animals (comestic testing on animals is now banned in the UK) and Swampy living in tunnels to stop bypasses and runways (non of his protests were specifically successful but he did raise awareness).

 

Yes there were probably leaflet campaigns, but I don't remember a single one. I also did not grow up in an age of unlimited information at my finger tips. Everyone is already well entrenched in their echo chambers so a well worded leaflet is not going to capture anyone's attention. Pouring milk on the floor or throwing soup on a painting might, of course it might turn people off the messengers, but maybe not the message. Maybe it gets enough people talking to have an impact. Maybe not, but whilst I don't condone these actions I won't condemn them for trying to do something, because all of this scientific research and empty promises isn't getting us far enough quick enough.

 

(I've clarified my position in a previous thread, I don't believe in the extreme views but I do think we can all reduce our impact to maintain a sustainable, balanced healthy, cruelty free, exploitation free approach to energy, farming, housing etc)

 

Try to ignore the messenger and the delivery, but still listen to the message. It's important. If you can prove that what they is saying is not true then I will condemn them as vandals. It sounds very much like we are being lied to, again, about our government's commitment to tackling climate change, it is our future and our children's and grandchildren's futures that are at risk.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/19/uk-has-approved-several-fossil-fuel-projects-since-cop26-analysis-finds

 

Here is a well researched article saying the same thing, but you probably haven't  seen this (I hadn't until I today, but was aware of these new licenses, but not the scale), so somebody throwing paint over a luxury car dealership means you have at least heard it, even if you disagree with the method of delivering the message to the detriment of the message you've still actually heard it.

And do you know what happened to all the mink that got freed. They set up home on the river Trent and ate all the fish. There’s thousands of them.

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I’ve no beef with protesting it’s a fundamental right. But what these idiots are doing is unlawful it’s as simple as that. 

 

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

(I'm not saying you're being manipulated to dislike climate change activists and therefore be indifferent to the very real and serious issues about climate change, but...)

 

5 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Although I would maintain that X number of people writing letters to the government would be more effective than X number of people chucking paint, it is wrong to suppress people, especially those whose futures are most at risk. 

Well, lack of forethought towards the future due to focus on short term self-interest is a valid position. It may be wildly unethical and will (if I am any judge at all) be viewed by what remains of history after all of this comes to no good end as similar to those who stood by while millions died in the past (only with an even higher body count than any of those), but it is a valid position to take.

 

I just wish some basic honesty and confession of it was shown, rather than hiding behind the veneer of "no, I really do care about the fate of around a billion people and maybe more but these nasty people doing stupid things are making it difficult".

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

And do you know what happened to all the mink that got freed. They set up home on the river Trent and ate all the fish. There’s thousands of them.

To be fair this is not really correct, there was a substantial American mink population already from decades of escaped and or released mink decades before the protests.  The released mink were mostly recaptured as they were pretty domesticated after generations of captive breeding.

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

To be fair this is not really correct, there was a substantial American mink population already from decades of escaped and or released mink decades before the protests.  The released mink were mostly recaptured as they were pretty domesticated after generations of captive breeding.

Except we didn’t see any until they escaped from near derby. 

[leicsmac]

Also, tbf idiot animal rights protestors were also responsible for kicking off the zombie apocalypse in 28 Days Later, so clearly good judgement does have to be shown on such matters.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

18 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Except we didn’t see any until they escaped from near derby. 

Fair enough, I am sure there are local examples where it was a disaster, but the fur breeders are not blameless either allowing them to escape for decades.

[Jon the Hat]

If people want to do outrageous things to get attention for their cause then fine, as long as they are treated the same as any other vandal and fined or jailed.  If they damaged the Sunflowers painting I expect them to have to sell everything they own and pay over part of their earnings for the rest of their life to pay for it.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

If people want to do outrageous things to get attention for their cause then fine, as long as they are treated the same as any other vandal and fined or jailed.  If they damaged the Sunflowers painting I expect them to have to sell everything they own and pay over part of their earnings for the rest of their life to pay for it.

And it really shouldn't be newsworthy anyway.

 

At least 600 people have died in Nigeria from floods, most likely exacerbated by climate change. Where's the outrage about that?

 

It's almost as if such death and misery doesn't really matter to some folks and instead idiotic stunts like this are focused on as a means for discrediting the cause they highlight and therefore keeping the status quo, just because it happens to suit a few powerful interests and a public who aren't feeling the effects of it themselves. Yet.

[ozleicester]

13 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

If people want to do outrageous things to get attention for their cause then fine, as long as they are treated the same as any other vandal and fined or jailed.  If they damaged the Sunflowers painting I expect them to have to sell everything they own and pay over part of their earnings for the rest of their life to pay for it.

here you go.... fixed.... or do you need you an NFT?

[Mike Oxlong]