Dahnsouff Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 1 minute ago, Facecloth said: Abusing his privilege would be refusing on the grounds he disagreed with the politics of the party. Refusing based on this revolving door of unelected shitness can't be allowed to continue for the good of the nation is using it responsibly. You are way too partisan to see the realities of this clearly. There is a case for a GE but this isn’t it, if the Tories choose a new leader because Truss steps down, they should naturally call one due to divergence on manifesto promises, but asking the King to vote Labour (which is exactly what he would be doing) mid term is a bit of a stretch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 1 hour ago, bovril said: for her own sake Don't give a monkeys for her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said: They waste millions. A family member of mine has been on the end of their bureaucratic misdemeanours which ended up costing them thousands and was nothing to do with government. It’s too easy to blame government for everything. NHS was massively underfunded by Hunt ≠ the NHS is run perfectly and doesn’t require any reform There’s plenty good debates to be had on whether the NHS could or should be revamped bureaucratically, it doesn’t have much to do with the objective fact Hunt massively underfunded it under his tenure. You could say it’s too easy to blame the government for everything (you’ve gone a good job of excusing them of everything), likewise one anecdote is nowhere near enough to wave off years of Hunt’s mismanagement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SecretPro Posted 17 October 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 17 October 2022 3 minutes ago, Finnaldo said: NHS was massively underfunded by Hunt ≠ the NHS is run perfectly and doesn’t require any reform There’s plenty good debates to be had on whether the NHS could or should be revamped bureaucratically, it doesn’t have much to do with the objective fact Hunt massively underfunded it under his tenure. You could say it’s too easy to blame the government for everything (you’ve gone a good job of excusing them of everything), likewise one anecdote is nowhere near enough to wave off years of Hunt’s mismanagement. That Fazzer account is clearly a parody or troll. On here as a WUM. You won't talk sense into it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: You are way too partisan to see the realities of this clearly. There is a case for a GE but this isn’t it, if the Tories choose a new leader because Truss steps down, they should naturally call one due to divergence on manifesto promises, but asking the King to vote Labour (which is exactly what he would be doing) mid term is a bit of a stretch. No, I'm say he would be saying "you have changed leader too often since you last went to the people, you are no longer enacting the manifesto you were elected under in 2019, in good conscience I cannot grant you permission to form new government without first taking it to the people." Simple really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 Just now, Facecloth said: No, I'm say he would be saying "you have changed leader too often since you last went to the people, you are no longer enacting the manifesto you were elected under in 2019, in good conscience I cannot grant you permission to form new government without first taking it to the people." Simple really. I get it, I do, I just think it should not require the Monarch to be the arbiter on this as he would effectively be deciding who should be in power rather than who should not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: I get it, I do, I just think it should not require the Monarch to be the arbiter on this as he would effectively be deciding who should be in power rather than who should not. He's not deciding who's in power, he's saying you can still be in power if that's what the people want, but right now we have noway of knowing if they do. You're right, it shouldn't fall on him, but that's how bad its got. They can't be trusted to put someone sensible in charge and they are unlikely to take it to the people off their own back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 29 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said: They waste millions. A family member of mine has been on the end of their bureaucratic misdemeanours which ended up costing them thousands and was nothing to do with government. It’s too easy to blame government for everything. Agree. I'm very right wing and I think that the NHS should be privatised, as no private company has ever wasted money or suffered bureaucratic misdemeanours. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 4 minutes ago, Facecloth said: He's not deciding who's in power, he's saying you can still be in power if that's what the people want, but right now we have noway of knowing if they do. You're right, it shouldn't fall on him, but that's how bad its got. They can't be trusted to put someone sensible in charge and they are unlikely to take it to the people off their own back. You are strictly right of course, calling a GE is fair and gives all parties a chance, but in reality, the righteous anger at the shocking governance by the Tories, means that clear majority would, as of right now, vote to get them out. This may seem fair, as if the majority want the out, then that’s what the people want, but this would lead to a very reactive democracy allowing governmental changes outside of electoral terms, undoing parts of our democratic processes overnight, and setting a very concerning precedent for any future government. Absolute best case is she steps down and the Tories man up and call a GE in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 14 minutes ago, Facecloth said: No, I'm say he would be saying "you have changed leader too often since you last went to the people, you are no longer enacting the manifesto you were elected under in 2019, in good conscience I cannot grant you permission to form new government without first taking it to the people." Simple really. He cannot become involved outside of his constitutional duties which are effectively ceremonial if you don’t like the rules and regs of our representative parliamentary democracy then you should campaign for the next Labour govt to change it. The conservatives have a mandate to govern for five years under the fixed parliament act. The party leader is normally accepted to be PM. If they change their leader then the PM changes. there is some chat that she can remain party leader but not be PM - not sure how that works but I heard it mentioned on the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 36 minutes ago, SecretPro said: That Fazzer account is clearly a parody or troll. On here as a WUM. You won't talk sense into it. We haven’t had an incarnation of Moose on here for some time. I wonder… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 Truss has gone beyond being a lame duck PM. She’s deceased, roasted, shredded and on the plate alongside the pancakes, cucumber, spring onions and hoisin sauce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 8 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said: Truss has gone beyond being a lame duck PM. She’s deceased, roasted, shredded and on the plate alongside the pancakes, cucumber, spring onions and hoisin sauce Stuffed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facecloth Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 30 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: You are strictly right of course, calling a GE is fair and gives all parties a chance, but in reality, the righteous anger at the shocking governance by the Tories, means that clear majority would, as of right now, vote to get them out. This may seem fair, as if the majority want the out, then that’s what the people want, but this would lead to a very reactive democracy allowing governmental changes outside of electoral terms, undoing parts of our democratic processes overnight, and setting a very concerning precedent for any future government. Absolute best case is she steps down and the Tories man up and call a GE in my opinion. Surely having a government electing new leaders numerous times and enacting policies not in the manifesto they were originally elected on is undemocratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazzer 7 Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 53 minutes ago, Finnaldo said: NHS was massively underfunded by Hunt ≠ the NHS is run perfectly and doesn’t require any reform There’s plenty good debates to be had on whether the NHS could or should be revamped bureaucratically, it doesn’t have much to do with the objective fact Hunt massively underfunded it under his tenure. You could say it’s too easy to blame the government for everything (you’ve gone a good job of excusing them of everything), likewise one anecdote is nowhere near enough to wave off years of Hunt’s mismanagement. They spent around 2 billion on negligence claims and the like last year. 20/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 4 minutes ago, Zear0 said: Stuffed? All yours 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazzer 7 Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 21 minutes ago, Izzy said: We haven’t had an incarnation of Moose on here for some time. I wonder… I can assure you I'm not a parody, troll, wind up merchant. or a Moose. That must've been before my time. Just a minority Tory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 6 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Surely having a government electing new leaders numerous times and enacting policies not in the manifesto they were originally elected on is undemocratic. Not sure, it’s certainly not a good look and one you would hope the voting public remember in two years time; their really should already be some form of legislation in such situations, but as there isn’t any action now would seem both reactive and unconstitutional, and yes, I realise the irony in typing this to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 1 minute ago, Fazzer 7 said: I can assure you I'm not a parody, troll, wind up merchant. or a Moose. That must've been before my time. Just a minority Tory. I think you might have done better pretending you are a parody, to be honest. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahnsouff Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 2 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said: I can assure you I'm not a parody, troll, wind up merchant. or a Moose. That must've been before my time. Just a minority Tory. Then how the hell did you get into this echo chamber??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blabyboy Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 53 minutes ago, st albans fox said: He cannot become involved outside of his constitutional duties which are effectively ceremonial if you don’t like the rules and regs of our representative parliamentary democracy then you should campaign for the next Labour govt to change it. The conservatives have a mandate to govern for five years under the fixed parliament act. The party leader is normally accepted to be PM. If they change their leader then the PM changes. there is some chat that she can remain party leader but not be PM - not sure how that works but I heard it mentioned on the radio. The Fixed Term parliament Act was repealed earlier this year. The PM can prorogue parliament at their choosing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 (edited) Yeah, Big Chaz can't be getting involved in this - even if he seems more up for that kind if stuff than his mum was. In cases like this, the people need to make their feelings clear via protest. Imagine that's what would be happening right now in most other countries if this situation befell them... Edited 17 October 2022 by Voll Blau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 1 minute ago, Voll Blau said: Yeah, Big Chaz can't be getting involved in this - even if he seems more up for that kind if stuff than his mum was. In cases like this, the people need to make their feelings clear via protest. Imagine that's what would be happening right now in most other countries if this situation befell them... But our lovely, democratic, free-speech loving Govt would like to outlaw protest.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 29 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said: I can assure you I'm not a parody, troll, wind up merchant. or a Moose. That must've been before my time. Just a minority Tory. That's just what Moose would have said 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazzer 7 Posted 17 October 2022 Share Posted 17 October 2022 Moose was a Tory was he or she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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