The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Moose was a Tory was he or she?

Moose was all sorts. Must have had four or five different accounts in my time here. 
Anyway, I’m only joking with you about that really. I think it’s actually good for the thread that there’s a bit of balance now MattP and Geoff aren’t here to represent. 

FWIW I’m a traditional Tory voter too but this current shower of shit ain’t getting my vote next time.

[st albans fox]

26 minutes ago, blabyboy said:

The Fixed Term parliament Act was repealed earlier this year. The PM can prorogue parliament at their choosing again.

So it was 

but whatever the law, the Tory party are entitled to govern for five years unless they lose a vote of no confidence or decide to dissolve parliament and call a GE. That’s their prerogative on the basis of winning a majority of seats.   most of those arguing that so much has changed that there has to be a GE are making their point from a position of opposition 

[Fazzer 7]

6 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Moose was all sorts. Must have had four or five different accounts in my time here. 
Anyway, I’m only joking with you about that really. I think it’s actually good for the thread that there’s a bit of balance now MattP and Geoff aren’t here to represent. 

FWIW I’m a traditional Tory voter too but this current shower of shit ain’t getting my vote next time.

I will live in the hope this will prove to be a turning point. We’ve still in all likelihood got 2 years to turn things around. Whether they will or not remains to be seen, but it’s blindingly obvious Truss is mortally wounded and should probably quit. 

[fox_up_north]

I'll never understand just seeing yourself as a Tory or Labour person for life. Currently, I like Labour. I didn't like them under Corbyn but I preferred that to what the Tories were offering, so I voted for that. If, suddenly, the Lib Dems offered something that I felt was better, I'd vote for them. 

 

Parties and politicians change. The party is just the branding for a bunch of people at any one time. 

[Legend_in_blue]

BBC News - I'll lead Tories into next election, says embattled Liz Truss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63293891

 

[SecretPro]

9 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

BBC News - I'll lead Tories into next election, says embattled Liz Truss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63293891

 

Just watched the interview. So painful. 

[Ian Nacho]

Fvck me. That was painful. 

[reporterpenguin]

She’s been like blinky Ben Swain whenever we’ve seen her today.

 

The Thick of It calls it yet again.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I can assure you I'm not a parody, troll, wind up merchant. or a Moose. That must've been before my time. Just a minority Tory.

Moosbreath confirmed

[The whole world smiles]

I know I shouldn't because her recklessness has pushed millions either into or further into poverty. But I've almost felt a little sorry for her today. 

 

Just painfully out of her depth and the whole country either hates her or are laughing at her. Reminds me of myself at 17 when I lied myself an admin job for an air conditioning firm and had absolutely no idea what I was doing. 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

I'll never understand just seeing yourself as a Tory or Labour person for life. Currently, I like Labour. I didn't like them under Corbyn but I preferred that to what the Tories were offering, so I voted for that. If, suddenly, the Lib Dems offered something that I felt was better, I'd vote for them. 

 

Parties and politicians change. The party is just the branding for a bunch of people at any one time. 

Because I’m a socialist. I believe in socialism. I could never vote for a party that actively works to benefit the rich and pour misery on the poor. The shittest Labour government would still be better for society as a whole than the best Tory one.

[leicsmac]

For me it does depend on their platform and ethos.

 

Stateside and over here it's rather simpler - the Repubs and the People Power Party seem to stick by their brand of social conservatism that views women with either paternalistic condescension or outright contempt and anyone with different colour skin as either inherently inferior or a useful fig-leaf for saying "hey, we're not like that anymore" (Candace Owens). Oh, and allowing short-term self-interest and daft religious viewpoints to interfere with scientific discovery and policymaking that would make everyone's lives better. So yeah, no thanks.

 

In the UK it's a little less clear-cut IMO as at least most of the Tories have something of a handle on some scientific and race/gender issues and are actually willing to change their mind on them, and there is reasonably broad consensus across the board there. Though Labour are, at this point in time and likely for a considerable while, the better option for a more egalitarian future (the best way to have any kind of future at all).

[Daggers]

[Jon the Hat]

16 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Reprehensible.

 

 

 

THEY WILL PAY MORE TAX!!  Who cares?

[Jon the Hat]

7 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

I'll never understand just seeing yourself as a Tory or Labour person for life. Currently, I like Labour. I didn't like them under Corbyn but I preferred that to what the Tories were offering, so I voted for that. If, suddenly, the Lib Dems offered something that I felt was better, I'd vote for them. 

 

Parties and politicians change. The party is just the branding for a bunch of people at any one time. 

Yes agreed, I couldn't vote for this current bunch of idiots.  Or the last bunch of idiots, although i did vote for Boris as I knew he would get the brexit deal at least over the line.  In my view I am still very much conservative economically, but this lot are mad.

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, Daggers said:

Because I’m a socialist. I believe in socialism. I could never vote for a party that actively works to benefit the rich and pour misery on the poor. The shittest Labour government would still be better for society as a whole than the best Tory one.

You will be shocked to know I don't agree at all.  for all its many faults, Capitalism increases the wealth of just about everyone, particulalry with a decent welfare state alongside it.

That said I won't say I would vote against Labour at the moment, and more than 10 years of any party is too long.  A bit of right then a bit of left seems to see the country cruising along the centre over time.

[Captain...]

5 hours ago, Daggers said:

Because I’m a socialist. I believe in socialism. I could never vote for a party that actively works to benefit the rich and pour misery on the poor. The shittest Labour government would still be better for society as a whole than the best Tory one.

Likewise, my votes have floated around Lib Dems, Greens and Labour. I could never vote Tory because I fundamentally disagree with their core principles.

[Daggers]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

You will be shocked to know I don't agree at all.  for all its many faults, Capitalism increases the wealth of just about everyone, particulalry with a decent welfare state alongside it.

That said I won't say I would vote against Labour at the moment, and more than 10 years of any party is too long.  A bit of right then a bit of left seems to see the country cruising along the centre over time.

Socialism isn’t the obverse of capitalism, only a narrow definition of it is.

 

Unfettered capitalism absolutely doesn’t increase the wealth of everyone, money is accumulated by an increasingly tiny number of people in a fixed system. You’re living a life of denial if you can’t see the ever increasing chasm between rich and poor. Society seems to want to celebrate individual entrepreneurs for their genius, they aren’t, they’re just selfish *****. Obscene wealth while millions can’t heat or eat - and where the **** is a decent welfare state? Not in the ****ing uk.

[st albans fox]

I think the banks asked for the bankers bonus (max twice salary)  to be scrapped because at the moment  they have to pay v large salaries to their staff in order that their final packages can compete with what they can earn in the states or Asia. 
 

economically it’s not an issue for us - although the treasury should be arguing that they prefer the paye take on a higher guaranteed salary rather than potential bonus’. Especially when there can be schemes for these bonus’ to be paid in other ways or other places. Additionally, the more bonus leaning package encourages a more gambling attitude from traders ??

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes agreed, I couldn't vote for this current bunch of idiots.  Or the last bunch of idiots, although i did vote for Boris as I knew he would get the brexit deal at least over the line.  In my view I am still very much conservative economically, but this lot are mad.

May I ask, do you still think this was a good idea? If so, what tangible benefits do you think have accrued?

[Bellend Sebastian]

Love to chat with the lads I know whose earnings are capped at 150 grand about how they're having to tighten their belts, and really, really love seeing them tie themselves in knots about how Tory economic policy has fallen apart. They're basically furious with markets not being onboard with what they see as rational thinking

[Fazzer 7]

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes agreed, I couldn't vote for this current bunch of idiots.  Or the last bunch of idiots, although i did vote for Boris as I knew he would get the brexit deal at least over the line.  In my view I am still very much conservative economically, but this lot are mad.

Do you think Hunt went anywhere near restoring your trust in economic policy  yesterday? 

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Socialism isn’t the obverse of capitalism, only a narrow definition of it is.

 

Unfettered capitalism absolutely doesn’t increase the wealth of everyone, money is accumulated by an increasingly tiny number of people in a fixed system. You’re living a life of denial if you can’t see the ever increasing chasm between rich and poor. Society seems to want to celebrate individual entrepreneurs for their genius, they aren’t, they’re just selfish *****. Obscene wealth while millions can’t heat or eat - and where the **** is a decent welfare state? Not in the ****ing uk.

You are right, unfettered capitalism is abhorrent, but is that really what we have? The struggles of the lower paid has little or nothing to do with our capitalism directly, it has everything to do with people, with unscrupulous individuals.

On another note, I thought Socialism did not discount some having more than others (Thats communism isn't it?)  Anyway some people will always still want to have more of things than others in any system.

[ozleicester]

12 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

You are right, unfettered capitalism is abhorrent, but is that really what we have?

yes

[weller54]

5 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Yes agreed, I couldn't vote for this current bunch of idiots.  Or the last bunch of idiots, although i did vote for Boris as I knew he would get the brexit deal at least over the line.  In my view I am still very much conservative economically, but this lot are mad.

So you voted for Johnson so Brexit would 'be done '?...

Can I ask you what benefits the UK are experiencing now the 'oven ready ' deal is done and dusted?

I'm genuinely interested.