The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[David Hankey]

The only politicians calling for a GE are those in Opposition. Would they be doing the same if the boot was on the other foot, no, I thought not.

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

I know full well we haven't had a war - my point is the sideshow and impact the war has had on our economy, inflation, supply chains etc etc. These are material impacts on our economy from no fault of our own.

 

…Apart from Boris’ refusal to do anything  initially, and then actively make it worse through a economically illiterate mini-budget? 
 
The public have every right to suggest an election after this shambles. 

[Tommy G]

Just now, Finnaldo said:

 

…Apart from Boris’ refusal to do anything  initially, and then actively make it worse through a economically illiterate mini-budget? 
 
The public have every right to suggest an election after this shambles. 

I'd agree with the mini budget part - but there is no way on earth the conservatives will call for a GE now - so people need to just stop wittering on about it.

[The People's Hero]

The very simple (and obvious) truth is that we only get a GE as and when the Govt start losing votes in the house; and possibly not even then but we would see.

 

It could be the most depressing GE ever as I wouldn't trust Keir Starmer to run a bath. Hell, I wouldn't trust him to run Liz Truss' bath. I certainly wouldn't trust him to run our (or indeed any) country.

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

[Foxdiamond]

25 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Why on earth would the tories call for a GE? Have we seen any ideas from Starmer or just his usual sniping at PMQ's? Between 2019 and now we have had a pandemic and a war, most parties manifestos would change in this period irregardless if you are left or right. 

Let alone the fact that 2 Tory PMs cocked it right up while having a large majority. No wonder a lot of the public feel they want another say.

[Finnaldo]

10 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I'd agree with the mini budget part - but there is no way on earth the conservatives will call for a GE now - so people need to just stop wittering on about it.

Quite frankly it probably suits Labour to hold off anyway and sit through the worst part of the financial crisis- but if folk are worried about making it through the winter and feel like a party seemingly at war with itself won’t offer enough assistance then they’re full within their rights to push for what they feel is in their best interests. 

[Raj]

Get in Rishi lad!!

Diwali day and first ever non white PM...all the gods are on his side.

The racist tories will still hound him out by Christmas!

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

If you think the Ukraine vs Russian war is low intensity and localised you clearly don't understand the material impact it has had on ours and other major G7 economies around the world. 

Oh, I understand very well.

 

I still maintain that by comparison to numerous conflicts in the past this one is lesser in scope of material impact, and I think that can be backed with statistics.

 

Of course, it has had a profound effect on the world, but not nearly so much as past conflicts, and certainly nowhere near as much as some future problems have the potential to generate.

 

And if the current government have allowed the economic effects of this conflict to be as far reaching as they are now, I say again that they are not fit to face the bigger issues that the future will raise. And soon.

[StriderHiryu]

My father was Indian, so seeing this happen should represent some kind of watershed moment. That we've moved away from Xenophobia and racist undertones and are committed to building a fairer and more tolerant society.

 

In reality they've just installed a power-hungry rich man masquerading as a politician. The country is more broken and more divided than it's been in my lifetime.

 

Hopefully the next General Election is not too far away. Thee only thing I can say about this appointment is that he's the best of a bad bunch. If that even means anything.

 

Curious to see what other forum members with Asian or other commonwealth heritage make of his appointment.

 

 

 

Edited 24 October 2022 by StriderHiryu

[Finnaldo]

6 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

The very simple (and obvious) truth is that we only get a GE as and when the Govt start losing votes in the house; and possibly not even then but we would see.

 

It could be the most depressing GE ever as I wouldn't trust Keir Starmer to run a bath. Hell, I wouldn't trust him to run Liz Truss' bath. I certainly wouldn't trust him to run our (or indeed any) country.

Comes across as being contrarian for the sake of it. There’s a chance he’s a below-average PM and doesn’t achieve much, it’ll still rank him within the top three PMs since the turn of the millennia. 
 

What about him suggests he’s incompetent? The only time I ever hear this is from people who simply ‘don’t like Labour’. 

[Greg2607]

46 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

Well, yes. How else?

 

Why should we keep recycling through Tory prime ministers when it's clear what is on offer is completely different to what people voted for in 2019?

To be fair, I've been a fairly vocal Labour supporter on here..... but the Manifesto in 2019 is entirely irrelevant given what happened subsequently to that.... Covid and all the fiscal impact that followed, will have torn up and trashed whatever aspirational vision the Tories had at the time. 

 

Now, clearly, I would prefer a different government in place, but actually, as far as the Tory candidates Go, Rishi is the most sensible and most statesmanlike of the bunch. 

 

We aren't getting a GE, it's not happening for 2 years at least.  So lets hope that we see some sensible Governing for a change and someone actually trying to tackle some of the issues we face as a society. 

 

You couldn't run a business with 5 MD's in 6 years (or at least, not in a way that would be successful!) - so lets hope that the next 2 years doesn't leave even more of the UK impoverished and Destitute. 

 

 

 

[Greg2607]

12 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

The very simple (and obvious) truth is that we only get a GE as and when the Govt start losing votes in the house; and possibly not even then but we would see.

 

It could be the most depressing GE ever as I wouldn't trust Keir Starmer to run a bath. Hell, I wouldn't trust him to run Liz Truss' bath. I certainly wouldn't trust him to run our (or indeed any) country.

 

 

Why is that? 

I personally think he comes across as relatively straight laced.  

 

I'm not asking for the sake of argument, i'm genuinely interested... is it just a gut reaction or you have deep misgivings about him? 

[The People's Hero]

1 minute ago, Finnaldo said:

Comes across as being contrarian for the sake of it. There’s a chance he’s a below-average PM and doesn’t achieve much, it’ll still rank him within the top three PMs since the turn of the millennia. 
 

What about him suggests he’s incompetent? The only time I ever hear this is from people who simply ‘don’t like Labour’. 

Just because someone has a different view to you, it doesn't them contrary... just contrary to your view (which it may or may not be). 

 

To dignify the ad hominem attack though with a response; I engage keenly with politics and have formed my own views based on the quality (and consistency or lack of it) to his responses to questions and his line of questioning.

 

It was plain and obvious to most that Truss was ill-equipped to rule and I believe Starmer is similarly ill-equipped. You may think differently and that's fine, I certainly wouldn't accuse you of being contrarian if you disagreed with me.

[westernpark]

I've never understood where these opinions of Starmer being wholly incompetent emerge from. He was in charge of public prosecutions. He went to two very good Universities on merit, rather than being a product of Private School. The Beergate was also his opportunity to demonstrate that he could be trusted, morally by the public. After a ridiculous public media campaign by the Daily Mail and other right wing media, not to forget 100,000 pounds spent by the police, he was found not guilty. Even stating he would resign if he was found guilty! He deserves respect as a public servant before his career in politics and deserves respect at least on par with his Conservative counterparts as a politician. 

[Finnaldo]

1 minute ago, The People's Hero said:

Just because someone has a different view to you, it doesn't them contrary... just contrary to your view (which it may or may not be). 

 

To dignify the ad hominem attack though with a response; I engage keenly with politics and have formed my own views based on the quality (and consistency or lack of it) to his responses to questions and his line of questioning.

 

It was plain and obvious to most that Truss was ill-equipped to rule and I believe Starmer is similarly ill-equipped. You may think differently and that's fine, I certainly wouldn't accuse you of being contrarian if you disagreed with me.

You’ve managed to answer without an answer, what exactly strikes you as ill-equipped, what part of his policy do you think is weak? What makes it as economically dangerous as Truss? As you’re keenly engaged I’d like to hear the detail. 
 

I’m happy to accept a lot of differing opinions, if you said you don’t think he’d be a ‘good’ Prime Minister I can fully accept that, or if you think Sunak would be better on the economic side of things, but you’ve suggested he’ll be even worse than Truss. 

[The People's Hero]

2 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Why is that? 

I personally think he comes across as relatively straight laced.  

 

I'm not asking for the sake of argument, i'm genuinely interested... is it just a gut reaction or you have deep misgivings about him? 

This will be a brief response, but it does adequately summarise my position and impression of him. I am happy to flesh it out with examples and detail but I doubt those would be of much interest.

 

Starmer has plenty of common sense and strikes you as maybe even one of the nicer and perhaps even more interesting guys to share a pint with on a personal level, but in terms of policy and his position on anything, he genuinely flip flops. He will also only flip or indeed flop when there is no fence to sit on. There's nothing really wrong with a fence sitter of flip-flopper unless of course you expect them to provide any real leadership in government. As a leader of the opposition he sometimes asks good questions, but he can't really probe since the PM will just always pad back the question with something like 'yeah but you said the opposite last week/last month' etc.

 

I think Boris once said Keir had 'more flip flops than Bournemouth beach' - (I've probably got the wrong UK coastal town there, sorry). And its one thing I agree with Boris on. 

 

I don't think Starmer is an odious man or a liar or whatever. He's just a populist who likes the sound of his own voice and doesn't even really know what he thinks OR IS A GENIUS AND WHENEVER THINKS CHANGE HE CHANGES HIS MIND!!!!!

[The People's Hero]

19 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

You’ve managed to answer without an answer, what exactly strikes you as ill-equipped, what part of his policy do you think is weak? What makes it as economically dangerous as Truss? As you’re keenly engaged I’d like to hear the detail. 
 

I’m happy to accept a lot of differing opinions, if you said you don’t think he’d be a ‘good’ Prime Minister I can fully accept that, or if you think Sunak would be better on the economic side of things, but you’ve suggested he’ll be even worse than Truss. 

Just to clarify, Starmer would not be worse than Truss and I guarantee you will not find that I've ever said or thought that.

 

When I mentioned Liz Truss it was because that's just a bath I couldn't care less about. Starmer > Truss. 

 

No anti-labour bias here. There are plenty of labour MPs/politicians/commentators I rate and plenty of Tory/Lib Dems I don't rate. In fact, I don't think political ability, worthiness, insight or whatever is linked to a large extent to your affiliation/membership/views aside from obvious the more odious extreme parties which will attract certain sorts.

 

 

Edited 24 October 2022 by The People's Hero
Run out of posts. I'm limited to 5 or something

[Finnaldo]

Just now, The People's Hero said:

Just to clarify, Starmer would not be worse than Truss and I guarantee you will not find that I've ever said or thought that.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

It could be the most depressing GE ever as I wouldn't trust Keir Starmer to run a bath. Hell, I wouldn't trust him to run Liz Truss' bath. I certainly wouldn't trust him to run our (or indeed any) country.

 

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

12 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

My father was Indian, so seeing this happen should represent some kind of watershed moment. That we've moved away from Xenophobia and racist undertones and are committed to building a fairer and more tolerant society.

 

In reality they've just installed a power-hungry rich man masquerading as a politician. The country is more broken and more divided than it's been in my lifetime.

 

Hopefully the next General Election is not too far away. Thee only thing I can say about this appointment is that he's the best of a bad bunch. If that even means anything.

 

Curious to see what other forum members with Asian or other commonwealth heritage make of his appointment.

 

 

 

Its great to see someone of a similar background (parents who emigrated from Africa but of Indian origin) achieve what he has. Looking at his background, he gets a lot of flack for being "rich". His father was a dr and his mother a pharmacist. They both moved here and worked hard, perhaps making sacrifices to give their kids the golden education ticket. This will be a proud moment for them (I dont know if they are both alive). I know from my parents own experiences, its not easy to get up and move countries, start again and achieve success.

 

However, its disappointing that this milestone has been achieved in these circumstances. 

[Foxdiamond]

8 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Just because someone has a different view to you, it doesn't them contrary... just contrary to your view (which it may or may not be). 

 

To dignify the ad hominem attack though with a response; I engage keenly with politics and have formed my own views based on the quality (and consistency or lack of it) to his responses to questions and his line of questioning.

 

It was plain and obvious to most that Truss was ill-equipped to rule and I believe Starmer is similarly ill-equipped. You may think differently and that's fine, I certainly wouldn't accuse you of being contrarian if you disagreed with me.

It was not plain and obvious to those Tory MPs and party members who supported Truss. Johnson even made her Foreign Secretary so great judgement not. I suspect Starmer's failure in your eyes is that he is Labour. 

[Tommy G]

19 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

To be fair, I've been a fairly vocal Labour supporter on here..... but the Manifesto in 2019 is entirely irrelevant given what happened subsequently to that.... Covid and all the fiscal impact that followed, will have torn up and trashed whatever aspirational vision the Tories had at the time. 

 

Now, clearly, I would prefer a different government in place, but actually, as far as the Tory candidates Go, Rishi is the most sensible and most statesmanlike of the bunch. 

 

We aren't getting a GE, it's not happening for 2 years at least.  So lets hope that we see some sensible Governing for a change and someone actually trying to tackle some of the issues we face as a society. 

 

You couldn't run a business with 5 MD's in 6 years (or at least, not in a way that would be successful!) - so lets hope that the next 2 years doesn't leave even more of the UK impoverished and Destitute. 

 

 

 

Completely agree - 2 massive and major events and the previous posters seem to think just because it's not as big as WW2 its not a big event that doesn't have a material impact on our Economy - as for the pandemic it was a first in a generation. It's easy to fall back on the Tories are all sh*ts - because of the damage Boris did, and the members did when voting in Truss. I hope Rishi is a breath of fresh air, he has to be if they want to be serious about a majority at the next GE. 

[Captain...]

The anti woke brigade will be fuming. 

 

Since David Gameron they've elected  a really diverse set of leaders:

2 Women

1 British Asian Man

1 SEN Manchild 

Edited 24 October 2022 by Captain...

[Tommy G]

Just now, Captain... said:

The anti woke brigade will be fuming. 

 

Since David Gameron they've elected  a really diverse set of leaders:

2 Women

1 British Asian Man

1 SEN Manchild 

What do you mean by that?

[Raj]

Hope the markets respond well, that will be a good first indication.

Just hope he does well and stabilizes  the country and does some proper work in sorting out the sh1tshow that his predecessors  have left the country in.