The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[leicsmac]

Well, could it be that we're finally getting elected governments that treat climate change with the seriousness it deserves? Glory be.

 

Good to see from Aus.

[WigstonWanderer]

Great election result in Australia. Looking like a hung parliament with Greens and Teals holding the balance. Labour paying the price IMO for running such a timid campaign in which they conceded handing $15B per year to the very rich in tax cuts, and continuation of opening new coal mines, fracking, etc.

 

They will form the government, but others will have a say, and they will push for greater action on the environment, and tough action on corruption (disgustingly rife in the form of pork barreling by the Liberal government).

 

A breath of fresh air, and hopefully Australia will play a proper role in climate action leadership.

[Facecloth]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Well, could it be that we're finally getting elected governments that treat climate change with the seriousness it deserves? Glory be.

 

Good to see from Aus.

Or just treat people in general how they deserve.

 

Not everything has to go back to one issue.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Or just treat people in general how they deserve.

 

Not everything has to go back to one issue.

Agreed.

 

However, in this particular case, it was a hot-button issue that had an effect apparently, and given recent events in Australia it's not hard to see why.

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

So it looks like Labor will form the next Australian Government with a rather dull unassuming leader against a bullshitting incumbent.  There might be a lesson for the Tories in there somewhere.

I think youll see a different Albanease in power, after losing last time by appearing to progressive, the alp were careful this campaign.

He still is no great personality... but im expecting big changes as they act on good human requiements

 

[WigstonWanderer]

58 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

I think youll see a different Albanease in power, after losing last time by appearing to progressive, the alp were careful this campaign.

He still is no great personality... but im expecting big changes as they act on good human requiements

 

Not a particularly impressive politician, but I expect he’ll make a better PM. His heart’s in the right place and I believe he has massively more integrity than Morrison, something in short supply these days. Tempered by a requirement to do business with Greens and/or the independents, I’m hoping for a much more responsible attitude to the environment and corruption. Hopefully they’ll eventually be able to build a consensus for taking on the vested interests in the fossil fuel industry, and on matters of taxation of the the very rich.

Edited 21 May 2022 by WigstonWanderer

[Aus Fox]

I think the massive swing in many seats towards independent and Green candidates is a clear message that in Australia, we are sick of the crap both major parties keep spouting.

People like Tim Wilson and Josh Frydenburg losing seats to independents and Liberals losing safe Queensland seats to the Greens shown the people as a whole are ready for change. 
I hope others around the world with similar governments to the Morrison shot show, wake up and take note.

[urban.spaceman]

How do we bankrupt these bastards? Like literally make them lose all their money. Make them ****ing destitute?

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-61539426

 

Encouraging sounds, but talk is cheap.

[WigstonWanderer]

52 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-61539426

 

Encouraging sounds, but talk is cheap.

The interesting thing now is what will happen to the Liberal party.

 

Will they end the climate wars and join in a genuine attempt to decarbonise, whilst trying to protect those affected in a declining coal and gas industry by encouraging replacement clean alternative industries in those areas? To do so they would presumably have to break with the Nationals and woo their electorate.

 

Or will they double down on a Trump like denial of climate change, with anti vax and conspiracy theory rhetoric? Looking more like the latter, with Peter Dutton likely to become leader.

 

Judging by what I’m hearing on TV, they (the Liberals) seem to be learning all the wrong lessons. They lost many of their moderates in affluent inner city areas to candidates supporting action on climate change and integrity. Their conclusion is that because their moderates lost, it must mean that the party was too left wing! You couldn’t make this stuff up.

 

If they do move to the right, hopefully they and the Nationals will be isolated as a right wing rump. Don’t want this place going like the US.

Edited 22 May 2022 by WigstonWanderer

[ozleicester]

50 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The interesting thing now is what will happen to the Liberal party.

 

Will they end the climate wars and join in a genuine attempt to decarbonise, whilst trying to protect those affected in a declining coal and gas industry by encouraging replacement clean alternative industries in those areas? To do so they would presumably have to break with the Nationals and woo their electorate.

 

Or will they double down on a Trump like denial of climate change, with anti vax and conspiracy theory rhetoric? Looking more like the latter, with Peter Dutton likely to become leader.

 

Judging by what I’m hearing on TV, they (the Liberals) seem to be learning all the wrong lessons. They lost many of their moderates in affluent inner city areas to candidates supporting action on climate change and integrity. Their conclusion is that because their moderates lost, it must mean that the party was too left wing! You couldn’t make this stuff up.

 

If they do move to the right, hopefully they and the Nationals will be isolated as a right wing rump. Don’t want this place going like the US.

If they elect Dutton, then...Trump it is.

I still think they will find a sacrificial woman...parachute Frydenberg into a safe seat in 12 months...then give him top job.

 

Either way, the nutjob one nation are losing a seat and NOONE can deny this is a vote for climate action and people before profit.

 

Looks now like the ALP will have a majority, which is a disappointment.

[ozleicester]

17 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Or just treat people in general how they deserve.

 

Not everything has to go back to one issue.

The election of so many independents and swings of up to 14% away from the right wingers is definitive ...climate action now!

[ozleicester]

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

How do we bankrupt these bastards? Like literally make them lose all their money. Make them ****ing destitute?

 

 

 

Tax!

[Facecloth]

10 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

The election of so many independents and swings of up to 14% away from the right wingers is definitive ...climate action now!

Oh I get climate change played a part in the election it was just more making a point the mac can turn any discussion into a climate change discussion. You've been on here numerous time bemoaning all sorts of aspects of Morrisons poor leadership, so I'm sure it wasn't a one issue election.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

Oh I get climate change played a part in the election it was just more making a point the mac can turn any discussion into a climate change discussion. You've been on here numerous time bemoaning all sorts of aspects of Morrisons poor leadership, so I'm sure it wasn't a one issue election.

I don't deny that - nor do I shy away from keeping on about an issue that can and will affect everyone in a way otherwise unseen outside of global nuclear war. I talk about it often because it's so big - and while people do have other priorities (and more power to them), this one issue has the power to render each and every one of them moot and judging by efforts so far as a species we're simply not doing enough.

 

That all being said, it seems to be a matter of fact that the above discussion did probably have the largest part to play in the way this particular election played out, if the reportage is to be believed - so it's not all hot air (figuratively) here.

[Facecloth]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I don't deny that - nor do I shy away from keeping on about an issue that can and will affect everyone in a way otherwise unseen outside of global nuclear war. I talk about it often because it's so big - and while people do have other priorities (and more power to them), this one issue has the power to render each and every one of them moot and judging by efforts so far as a species we're simply not doing enough.

 

That all being said, it seems to be a matter of fact that the above discussion did probably have the largest part to play in the way this particular election played out, if the reportage is to be believed - so it's not all hot air (figuratively) here.

I admire your passion and I don't deny its a big issue.

 

I've seen you mention human nature a lot on here. Well there's one aspect of human nature you should probably consider. When people talk a lot about something they are passionate about and the other person isn't, eventually the listeners passive interest turns to just switching off. If I go into the office tomorrow and talk for 8 hours about Leicester City, my colleagues might get through day one being polite and listening to what I'm saying, asking questions. By the middle of the week they are probably quietly thinking STFU and by next week they'll probably be telling me straight to to my face to STFU.

 

My point is pick your battles, know when it's time to bring it up, dial it back a bit. You might be right here and apologise if that's the case but my mind always goes back to the Ukraine thread, where you managed to turn discussion about people fleeing bombs and certain death into one about climate change. I've seen you get involved in some great debates on here and show some excellent knowledge on a array of subjects. Now regardless of the subject I can guarantee 8 out 10 posts will somehow find a way back to climate change.

 

Anyway, keep fighting the fight, just don't get to middle of the second week 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I admire your passion and I don't deny its a big issue.

 

I've seen you mention human nature a lot on here. Well there's one aspect of human nature you should probably consider. When people talk a lot about something they are passionate about and the other person isn't, eventually the listeners passive interest turns to just switching off. If I go into the office tomorrow and talk for 8 hours about Leicester City, my colleagues might get through day one being polite and listening to what I'm saying, asking questions. By the middle of the week they are probably quietly thinking STFU and by next week they'll probably be telling me straight to to my face to STFU.

 

My point is pick your battles, know when it's time to bring it up, dial it back a bit. You might be right here and apologise if that's the case but my mind always goes back to the Ukraine thread, where you managed to turn discussion about people fleeing bombs and certain death into one about climate change. I've seen you get involved in some great debates on here and show some excellent knowledge on a array of subjects. Now regardless of the subject I can guarantee 8 out 10 posts will somehow find a way back to climate change.

 

Anyway, keep fighting the fight, just don't get to middle of the second week 

...and that's because I think, at a big enough level, it ties into a lot of other issues, warfare included, but I reckon you're dead right about human nature. I don't mind saying that it's a frustrating thing to deal with at times - and I include my own irrationality and hypocrisy in that, too.

 

I guess some of it is borne from worry, too. I can't simply switch off my sentiments about the future in the way it seems many people out in the world can.

 

In any case, you've made a good point and I'll try my best - that this particular election was a locus for that one issue and that's why I mentioned it (honest) notwithstanding.

 

 

 

 

[Facecloth]

23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

...and that's because I think, at a big enough level, it ties into a lot of other issues, warfare included, but I reckon you're dead right about human nature. I don't mind saying that it's a frustrating thing to deal with at times - and I include my own irrationality and hypocrisy in that, too.

 

I guess some of it is borne from worry, too. I can't simply switch off my sentiments about the future in the way it seems many people out in the world can.

 

In any case, you've made a good point and I'll try my best - that this particular election was a locus for that one issue and that's why I mentioned it (honest) notwithstanding.

 

 

 

 

I think it was one of the main issues. I've seen him criticised over the cost of living crisis, his human right record, his attitude to minorities etc. So hopefully action on those things too.

 

I would say for most people, if you can't afford to feed your family or heat your home. If you're struggling to fuel the car to get to work. If you are fleeing war. If you are discriminated against for your race, sexuality etc, sadly climate change may not be at the forefront of your mind. So whilst it's a big issue and whilst it, as you say, ties into those things from one side in someway, you aren't going to get people on side if all those personal issues are still on going. People are more worried right now if they can what they can afford to put in their trolley, not what that thing they put in the trolley is packaged in. 

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Facecloth said:

I think it was one of the main issues. I've seen him criticised over the cost of living crisis, his human right record, his attitude to minorities etc. So hopefully action on those things too.

 

I would say for most people, if you can't afford to feed your family or heat your home. If you're struggling to fuel the car to get to work. If you are fleeing war. If you are discriminated against for your race, sexuality etc, sadly climate change may not be at the forefront of your mind. So whilst it's a big issue and whilst it, as you say, ties into those things from one side in someway, you aren't going to get people on side if all those personal issues are still on going. People are more worried right now if they can what they can afford to put in their trolley, not what that thing they put in the trolley is packaged in. 

Absolutely. So we need to fix the one to get to the other.

 

No easy task - I hope we're up to it. We need to be.

[Facecloth]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Absolutely. So we need to fix the one to get to the other.

 

No easy task - I hope we're up to it. We need to be.

Exactly. I think sometimes you have to play the hand you have now. I know climate change is a pressing issue, but its also the bigger picture compared to the others things mentioned right now. And to sort the bigger picture you have to sort the little things first. So let's make sure people can actually live today, and then we can kick on making sure they can live tomorrow.

[Facecloth]

Twitter rumours that Carrie Johnson has run off with Zac Goldsmith. Bet Boris is delighted he made him a lord if this is true.

[Fazzer 7]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

The election of so many independents and swings of up to 14% away from the right wingers is definitive ...climate action now!

If people like you could decide policy on climate change. What exactly would you do, over say the next decade? 

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

If people like you could decide policy on climate change. What exactly would you do, over say the next decade? 

Can't speak for the Aussies alone, but worldwide...

 

- Begin phasing out of any and all coal and oil burning energy generation facilities. No new ones built, those that remain designate for staged decommission. Keep gas-based ones for the time being as they are the best of a poor bunch.

- To compensate for this, immediately begin work on Gen III/IV/fast breeder fission reactors to fill the gap at large grid level and bespoke renewable infrastructure (solar for Aus, tidal/wind etc for other places like the UK) at a smaller level

- Aim to have the above completed within the next 15 years, 20 at the outside

- Seek to make single-person transportation vehicles no longer reliant on the internal combustion engine within the same timeframe. Ditto for cargo shipping vehicles, as much as is possible.

- Overall goal being reducing carbon emissions to cap average global temperature increase at less than 2 degree C overall (compared to 1850) by three decades time. 1.5 would be preferable, but I think that ship has sailed.

- Invest in infrastructure - flood defences, more durable crops and the like - to defend against changes that will come no matter what we do, because there will be some. The UK might well avoid the worst of it - other places won't.

 

It's going to cost, without any shadow of a doubt. But without any other doubt, not doing these things will cost much, much more down the line.

Edited 22 May 2022 by leicsmac

[Dunge]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Can't speak for the Aussies alone, but worldwide...

 

- Begin phasing out of any and all coal and oil burning energy generation facilities. No new ones built, those that remain designate for staged decommission

- To compensate for this, immediately begin work on Gen III/IV/fast breeder fission reactors to fill the gap at large grid level and bespoke renewable infrastructure (solar for Aus, tidal/wind etc for other places like the UK) at a smaller level

- Aim to have the above completed within the next 15 years, 20 at the outside

- Seek to make single-person transportation vehicles no longer reliant on the internal combustion engine within the same timeframe. Ditto for cargo shipping vehicles, as much as is possible.

- Overall goal being reducing carbon emissions to cap average global temperature increase at less than 2 degree C overall (compared to 1950) by three decades time. 1.5 would be preferable, but I think that ship has sailed.

- Invest in infrastructure - flood defences, more durable crops and the like - to defend against changes that will come no matter what we do, because there will be some. The UK might well avoid the worst of it - other places won't.

 

It's going to cost, without any shadow of a doubt. But without any other doubt, not doing these things will cost much, much more down the line.

This.

 

Plus the development of GM foods and lab-grown meat. I know people will be unhappy about that, and I wasn’t comfortable about it myself when first mooted, but ultimately I don’t think we’ll have a choice and people will have to get used to the idea.

[Fazzer 7]

27 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Can't speak for the Aussies alone, but worldwide...

 

- Begin phasing out of any and all coal and oil burning energy generation facilities. No new ones built, those that remain designate for staged decommission. Keep gas-based ones for the time being as they are the best of a poor bunch.

- To compensate for this, immediately begin work on Gen III/IV/fast breeder fission reactors to fill the gap at large grid level and bespoke renewable infrastructure (solar for Aus, tidal/wind etc for other places like the UK) at a smaller level

- Aim to have the above completed within the next 15 years, 20 at the outside

- Seek to make single-person transportation vehicles no longer reliant on the internal combustion engine within the same timeframe. Ditto for cargo shipping vehicles, as much as is possible.

- Overall goal being reducing carbon emissions to cap average global temperature increase at less than 2 degree C overall (compared to 1850) by three decades time. 1.5 would be preferable, but I think that ship has sailed.

- Invest in infrastructure - flood defences, more durable crops and the like - to defend against changes that will come no matter what we do, because there will be some. The UK might well avoid the worst of it - other places won't.

 

It's going to cost, without any shadow of a doubt. But without any other doubt, not doing these things will cost much, much more down the line.

You see that doesn’t sound too radical to me. In fact in this Country and indeed Europe I’d think we were already heading towards those goals. There was me thinking you would come back with stuff like banning international air travel or making it the reserve of the rich. I support pretty much all you advocate.