The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Boris wanted it and was Prime Minister for 2 and a half years. Rishi wanted it and is Prime Minister, and was Chancellor for 2 and a half years.

 

Those who 'wanted' Brexit have been in direct control of making it work and have failed miserably. Because it's unworkable.

Carrying out the will of the people as expressed by a referendum is one form of the use of the word “want” I am unfamiliar with. .

 

[leicsmac]

16 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Brexit has been made worse by those who didn't want it.

 

Coupled together with the Covid pandemic, which I agree hasn't helped, but how many foresaw this when casting their vote back in 2016.

How many people foresaw a world affecting event that would cause trouble and chaos on a disunited world?

 

I did. Just got the type and the immediate timeline wrong, which does have an effect on the landscape.

 

Brexit was a bad idea then and its an even worse one now in a world that increasingly requires unity on a laundry list of problems that aren't going away.

 

People take the natural status quo for granted. They really shouldn't.

Edited 1 November 2022 by leicsmac

[Voll Blau]

13 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Brexit has been made worse by those who didn't want it.

 

Coupled together with the Covid pandemic, which I agree hasn't helped, but how many foresaw this when casting their vote back in 2016.

Always the victims, it's never your fault...

[leicsmac]

And regarding Ms Hopkins, IMO it would be better for folks to address the highly questionable ideas rather than the person delivering them. Makes for a surer argument.

[urban.spaceman]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Carrying out the will of the people as expressed by a referendum is one form of the use of the word “want” I am unfamiliar with. .

 

To be clear, though I didn't vote for Brexit I believe we should have carried out the will of the people on June 24th 2016 and just left immediately.  

[David Hankey]

8 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Boris wanted it and was Prime Minister for 2 and a half years. Rishi wanted it and is Prime Minister, and was Chancellor for 2 and a half years.

 

Those who 'wanted' Brexit have been in direct control of making it work and have failed miserably. Because it's unworkable.

You forgot to mention Theresa May who failed in getting Brexit done. It is not unworkable, how do you think this nation coped before we joined EU?

 

Politicians and others who voted 'Remain', cannot even today accept the referendum result. I sometimes wonder why we, the British people, were given that opportunity in the first place.

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Actual lunatics.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, foxy boxing said:

i think he knows he's pretty much done in politics and is obviously looking to market himself to find a new career.

He clearly won’t have a clue at what is about to happen to him 

the producers know that watching him suffer, night after night will bring in huge audiences 

Hancock is too stupid to realise what he’s got himself into 

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

To be clear, though I didn't vote for Brexit I believe we should have carried out the will of the people on June 24th 2016 and just left immediately.  

I did not vote for it, will never forgive Cameron it, but yes, it was the outcome, and it was never ever ever going to be quick, it never ever ever could be, to think otherwise is delusional.

However. Even slow is quicker than this….  

[David Hankey]

5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Always the victims, it's never your fault...

I was one of the 8.5M people who voted 'No' about the UK joining the European Economic Community, as it was then called, but accepted the situation.

 

I thought it was a bad idea then and feel exactly the same 47 years on!!

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

You forgot to mention Theresa May who failed in getting Brexit done. It is not unworkable, how do you think this nation coped before we joined EU?

 

Politicians and others who voted 'Remain', cannot even today accept the referendum result. I sometimes wonder why we, the British people, were given that opportunity in the first place.

sitn you think it’s  unworkable in the context of the island of Ireland ?

 

this was the case in 2016 when we voted and remains the same now 

 

there was never a right or wrong answer to the brexit question - but timing was everything and our economy wasn’t strong enough to withstand brexit in 2016, never mind now. 
 

any tangible benefits remain some distance away and we could do with being in the single market at the moment post covid and it’s economic fall out. 
 

i hope we all live long enough to see those benefits as and when they come into view. No doubt they eventually will but who knows the context by then. 

[urban.spaceman]

3 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

You forgot to mention Theresa May who failed in getting Brexit done. It is not unworkable, how do you think this nation coped before we joined EU?

 

Politicians and others who voted 'Remain', cannot even today accept the referendum result. I sometimes wonder why we, the British people, were given that opportunity in the first place.

May became Prime Minister because the people who enabled Brexit chickened out of dealing with it. Boris backed out immediately after the result and Cameron cowarded out of dealing with the atom bomb of a mess he created.

 

Brexit is unworkable in terms of the country and its peoples being perpetually worse off, having fewer freedoms and less rights than we did before. Being in the EU, cooperating and aligning with our nearest neighbours, gave us more prosperity, freedoms and rights than we had before.

 

Everyone does need to accept the result of the referendum. I did on day one, but that doesn't stop me being angry about the people who enabled it because it sets our country back decades and leaves me feeling like I'm being kept hostage on this island.

[Fazzer 7]

13 minutes ago, Rain King said:

Jesus christ, seeing her face should be enough to avoid. 

There are actually people that listen to this shite and think it's worthwhile.

So you dismiss the idea that entities are making huge sums of money out of facilitating immigration, and not just the people smugglers. I’d refer you back to @Tielemans63 post earlier. 

[Fox in the North]

Brexit was and continues to be one of the biggest farces in this country’s history. 

[st albans fox]

10 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

To be clear, though I didn't vote for Brexit I believe we should have carried out the will of the people on June 24th 2016 and just left immediately.  

Let’s say that your family decide that they want to move out of the house and buy/rent somewhere else. 
 

can you just walk out straight away?

 

there were fifty years of stuff to unravel and we wanted to get the best leaving deal that we could. 
 

yes we dragged it out at first, hoping that the EU would do us a few favours but they decided it wouldn’t be politically savvy to do so. 
 

even farage and the ERG didn’t advocate an immediate departure with no negs - that was unworkable. 

[David Hankey]

Cameron, to my mind, has a lot to answer for. On becoming PM hew said he would give the people the 'In/Out' option of our membership of the EU and in fairness he did this.

 

Obviously, he didn't like the result but instead of walking away leaving others to pick up the pieces he should have worked towards implementing the wishes of the electorate.

 

He was a coward, nothing more nothing less.

[grobyfox1990]

30 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Brexit has been made worse by those who didn't want it.

 

Coupled together with the Covid pandemic, which I agree hasn't helped, but how many foresaw this when casting their vote back in 2016.

Markets. A wholesale sell off of the currency which hasn't really recovered since then, yes obvs other factors contributed but this was the root cause.

 

We live in a country that, since the industrial revolution, has stayed first world due to stolen wealth from the colonies and shuffling money from A to B and taking a cut from it. The looted wealth hasn't got long to go and brexit has made that shuffling a lot harder. So what do we have to offer the world and convince people to base here? Nada. Markets largely undertood this in 2016.

 

Ps not to say Brexit couldn't be a huge success in a few decades time, if we get competent leadership in and Putin tears Europe apart, but that would be luck rather than hindsight.

[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Cameron, to my mind, has a lot to answer for. On becoming PM hew said he would give the people the 'In/Out' option of our membership of the EU and in fairness he did this.

 

Obviously, he didn't like the result but instead of walking away leaving others to pick up the pieces he should have worked towards implementing the wishes of the electorate.

 

He was a coward, nothing more nothing less.

He couldn't stay when he campaigned for staying and then lost.

[The Guvnor]

35 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Would you say our relationship with France is better, the same, or worse following Brexit?

Our relationship with France I would suggest has no bearing at all in making someone’s decision to leaving their home country.

Pretty sure I heard Macron saying their relationship with the UK is a special one and one France wishes to maintain.

Was he massaging the truth.

 

[Unabomber]

Crazy how some people still can’t admit that voting to leave was a bad idea. Just hold your hands up we all make mistakes. 

[fox_up_north]

19 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Cameron, to my mind, has a lot to answer for. On becoming PM hew said he would give the people the 'In/Out' option of our membership of the EU and in fairness he did this.

 

Obviously, he didn't like the result but instead of walking away leaving others to pick up the pieces he should have worked towards implementing the wishes of the electorate.

 

He was a coward, nothing more nothing less.

For me, this was his biggest mistake. The margin was incredibly fine but he could have used the result to dig into that. Nobody said (or even really expected) it to be a case of leaving with no deal.

 

I genuinely anticipated him staying, putting civil servants to work to find out what were the different agreements and things that could be done. It could have been a case, such as things like Grimsby and Boston, whereby only the UK had access to X waters in the north sea for fishing but on a smaller scale to what was available before and there would be certain tariffs on imported fish from France. 

 

The Brexit result wasn't the big cock up; him resigning was. 

[Tommy G]

Clearly tax hikes on the way - and stealth tax increases from freezing rate bands effectively with wages increasing the govt will be collecting more tax.

 

Looks like Sunak and Hunt want all this out in the open before the 17th to see the public and market reaction. I was never in the truss camp for tax cuts but I don't agree with reversing the 1.25% NI increase Sunak put in as Chancellor - we are already over taxed in this country and I don't know how a conserative governement can stomach more rises off the back of the last few years alone.  Shambles

[st albans fox]

18 minutes ago, The Guvnor said:

Our relationship with France I would suggest has no bearing at all in making someone’s decision to leaving their home country.

Pretty sure I heard Macron saying their relationship with the UK is a special one and one France wishes to maintain.

Was he massaging the truth.

 

Our relationship with France will dictate how bothered they are about allowing people to cast off their north coast in small boats 

 

I suggest if we were still in the EU we would be able to exert more influence on them stopping more boats from leaving. At the moment they care not a jot to stop anyone - it removes an asylum seeker or immigrant from their shores and dumps the problem onto ours 

 

and yes, macron is being disingenuous…..

[Fox92]

23 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Crazy how some people still can’t admit that voting to leave was a bad idea. Just hold your hands up we all make mistakes. 

Just look at the people that campagined for it, not exactly the type that hold their hands up!

[Unabomber]

Just now, Fox92 said:

Just look at the people that campagined for it, not exactly the type that hold their hands up!

I just find it very weak that people can’t admit when they got things wrong. 

[Salisbury Fox]

3 hours ago, Greg2607 said:

it absolutely is broken. 

 

As it stands, it is impossible to apply for asylum unless you have your feet on the ground in the UK.   

 

We don't have any overseas centres at all to allow this to happen in british embassies etc. 

 

so, by the very nature of our system, we are actively encouraging people to get into boats, pay criminal gangs and try to get to the UK. 

 

Now clearly, there will be alot of people doing this, that are coming for nefarious reasons, but you can't filter those out. 

 

If we had an overseas solution, then we could categorically state that ANYONE arriving in the UK via a boat, is an illegal immigrant and should be deported immediately.   As it stands we can't do that. 

How would an overseas solution actually work, genuinely interested? I assume that there would have to be an agreement with a country that a particular area of theirs would become a magnet to people looking for asylum in a similar way that Calais is now. I assume that this may not prove very attractive for the host country for varying reasons.
 

What about the assumptions that individuals from a country like Eritrea are all genuine cases? If these assumptions are accepted then making access easier would increase the numbers hugely wouldn’t it? Before even thinking of doing this there would need to be a fairly accurate understanding of how many would come so that the infrastructure could be provided to support this. 
 

How would this fit in with the move to more automation? People with low and poor communication skills may have a role to play now but will they always? Of course training can be provided, but this would be at significant cost. Would it be a one off or would it be an open ended agreement? I remember reading that Africa’s population is expected to double by 2050, surely we need to establish an upper limit that can be provided for given the size of our country?