The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Fazzer 7]

3 hours ago, Dames said:

Borrowing and debt have increased year on year since the Conservatives came into power even before the pandemic, another myth dispelled. 

 

Yes they have but they would have done so under any government, surely!

[Fazzer 7]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

No. The Corbynites have been pushed right to the fringes and from all accounts are getting frustrated enough that they are going to set up their own ‘Peace and Justice’ party. 
 

Each party will have a minority of far leaning loons but you just have to compare the achievements of New Labour compared to this lot and its a no brainer. 
 

Has anywhere apart from London been ‘levelled up’? Johnson is the same as the rest, hes just more comfortable lying and the Tory party are too cowardly to do anything about it.

 

At least Starmer will resign if he gets an FPN. 

I have to admit to being surprised, well actually more disappointed than surprised that the party haven't removed Johnson. It was good to see Harper sticking to his condemnation of Johnson on todays politics live, in calling for him to go. The longer this debacle rumbles on I think the better the chances are of getting him out. Surely the majority will eventually see him as more of a liability than an asset.

[ozleicester]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

So we didn’t have austerity then?

"quantative easing" since 2009...

[String fellow]

32 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I have to admit to being surprised, well actually more disappointed than surprised that the party haven't removed Johnson. It was good to see Harper sticking to his condemnation of Johnson on todays politics live, in calling for him to go. The longer this debacle rumbles on I think the better the chances are of getting him out. Surely the majority will eventually see him as more of a liability than an asset.

I think that virtually every Conservative MP knows that the PM has lost all credibilty in the eyes of the general public. The problem with removing him from office is that it could quickly lead to his replacement requiring a fresh mandate from the electorate. This would undoubtedly see Sir Keir Starmer in No.10 and lots of Conservative MPs out of a job. So by keeping the current PM in place, those MPs are helping to extend the duration of their own jobs for as long as possible.

Edited 24 May 2022 by String fellow

[Finnaldo]

2 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Well this is the most persuasive response why I should consider being open to vote Labour imo. Can I ask, do you see any way back for the far left under the current leadership of the Labour Party? 

I’m probably more closely aligned to the left of the Labour Party in an economic sense (at least in that I believe that key infrastructure should be run by the State, especially rail would probably be more efficient with the modern tech available) but I completely disagree with their outright hostility to any level of patriotism. As generally left-leaning and voting Remain, I’m quite proud to be English/British and I want a Labour Party that is both for the people and still not afraid to celebrate the British identity, I feel Starmer has tried to push in this direction but the Left Wing of the party have conceded so many own goals it’s hard to reconcile, the whole Palestine lot (it’s my opinion both the Israeli Government and Hamas are horrendous leadership and both sets of people suffer under them) I don’t like either. The entire Stop The War palaver was the final nail in the coffin for me, it’s pure ideological Puritanism over good statesmanship and common decency.
 

I think the Left of the Labour Party are done for now in terms of influence. They need to marry their economic policy (which has proven quite popular in many blind polls I believe) with a more pro-British and pragmatic outlook and they may find themselves relevant again, but I don’t see it any time soon. To that point I’m glad Starmer has gave them the proverbial slap round the ear. 

[Robo61]

3 hours ago, Strokes said:

So we didn’t have austerity then?

We clearly did,  the Tory and Tory/Liberal Governments inflicted austerity on the poorest in the country by reducing expenditure on welfare and the services that the pooresat in society access.  That could have been successful had there been other policies in place to increase productivity, i.e. by investing education and infrastructure.  However such investment never happened so productivity stagnated and so government income further reduced resulting in further Government borrowing. 

 

[Dames]

37 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

I’m probably more closely aligned to the left of the Labour Party in an economic sense (at least in that I believe that key infrastructure should be run by the State, especially rail would probably be more efficient with the modern tech available) but I completely disagree with their outright hostility to any level of patriotism. As generally left-leaning and voting Remain, I’m quite proud to be English/British and I want a Labour Party that is both for the people and still not afraid to celebrate the British identity, I feel Starmer has tried to push in this direction but the Left Wing of the party have conceded so many own goals it’s hard to reconcile, the whole Palestine lot (it’s my opinion both the Israeli Government and Hamas are horrendous leadership and both sets of people suffer under them) I don’t like either. The entire Stop The War palaver was the final nail in the coffin for me, it’s pure ideological Puritanism over good statesmanship and common decency.
 

I think the Left of the Labour Party are done for now in terms of influence. They need to marry their economic policy (which has proven quite popular in many blind polls I believe) with a more pro-British and pragmatic outlook and they may find themselves relevant again, but I don’t see it any time soon. To that point I’m glad Starmer has gave them the proverbial slap round the ear. 

The hard left of the Labour Party are in a constant race to the bottom in terms of who can be more ideologically pure, they won’t accept compromise and its partly why we’ve been lumbered with the worst government in recent history.

 

I consider myself similar to you that all essential infrastructure should be under public ownership. I find it astonishing that National Grid have based their HQ in Hong Kong to avoid paying tax. More importantly and this is massively overlooked is that at some point in the future the company responsible for running our National Grid will be at the mercy of the Chinese Government, they could seize it at any time and leave us in a very dangerous position.

 

I’ve always maintained that the biggest threat to this country’s security is the Conservative Party because they will sell anything to the highest bidder. I fully expect channel 4 to come under ownership linked to a foreign regime which can end up being quite dangerous in the long run.  

[Fazzer 7]

 

[weller54]

9 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

 

A decent Tory!!

...we should have him stuffed.

[Legend_in_blue]

20 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

 

Decent MP.  Thinks outside the box.  His train of thought during Covid was also to be commended but, as is the case here, will be ignored as MPs would rather follow the crowd than voice reasonable suggestions/alternatives.

Edited 24 May 2022 by Legend_in_blue

[Wymsey]

How apt.. 

 

[String fellow]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

The hard left of the Labour Party are in a constant race to the bottom in terms of who can be more ideologically pure, they won’t accept compromise and its partly why we’ve been lumbered with the worst government in recent history.

 

I consider myself similar to you that all essential infrastructure should be under public ownership. I find it astonishing that National Grid have based their HQ in Hong Kong to avoid paying tax. More importantly and this is massively overlooked is that at some point in the future the company responsible for running our National Grid will be at the mercy of the Chinese Government, they could seize it at any time and leave us in a very dangerous position.

 

I’ve always maintained that the biggest threat to this country’s security is the Conservative Party because they will sell anything to the highest bidder. I fully expect channel 4 to come under ownership linked to a foreign regime which can end up being quite dangerous in the long run.  

Having done a quick fact-check of the second paragraph, apparently the National Grid's HQ are in London. Two holding companies (in Hong Kong and Luxembourg) were established to try to protect the one million UK shareholders' investments from re-nationalisation under a future Labour government.

[Strokes]

4 hours ago, ozleicester said:

"quantative easing" since 2009...

Now we are getting somewhere, who was the brainchild of this practice?

[Dames]

40 minutes ago, String fellow said:

Having done a quick fact-check of the second paragraph, apparently the National Grid's HQ are in London. Two holding companies (in Hong Kong and Luxembourg) were established to try to protect the one million UK shareholders' investments from re-nationalisation under a future Labour government.

Which still means that the ultimate control of the company is based outside of the UK because thats where the money is. 

[rachhere]

https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-govt-poised-to-announce-multibillion-pound-cost-of-living-package-as-sue-gray-report-expected-12620711 

 

How incredibly convenient for them to coincide...

 

The audacity of this government to use the fact that people are panicked about whether they afford their basic needs as a way to detract from the report. 

[Zear0]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/24/details-emerge-of-new-downing-street-lockdown-event

 

Another one...The inevitable trickle to continue as hacked off staff report more.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-govt-poised-to-announce-multibillion-pound-cost-of-living-package-as-sue-gray-report-expected-12620711 

 

How incredibly convenient for them to coincide...

 

The audacity of this government to use the fact that people are panicked about whether they afford their basic needs as a way to detract from the report. 

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

Do nothing, exacerbate the problem

HERE'S OUR PLAN TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM AREN'T WE WONDERFUL.

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, rachhere said:

https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-govt-poised-to-announce-multibillion-pound-cost-of-living-package-as-sue-gray-report-expected-12620711 

 

How incredibly convenient for them to coincide...

 

The audacity of this government to use the fact that people are panicked about whether they afford their basic needs as a way to detract from the report. 

 

Priorities.....

1. "Operation Save Big Dog"

2. Control the PR/Media agenda in order to achieve Priority 1.

 

No, there no more priorities. Nothing else matters. Not cost of living, economy, war, N. Ireland, EU trade, US relations,  climate change, Afghan interpreters, the law, democracy, impartiality of police/civil service, public decency.....none of it matters.

So long as Big Dog retains power, public profile and the ability to do whatever he wants - and his mates, class and financial beneficiaries retain access to power, influence and megabucks, nothing else matters. Certainly not scum like voters.

 

[Dames]

I know theres a cost of living crisis and partygate but there should only be one question at PMQs today. Why is Crispin Blunt still a Conservative MP after twice defending a man convicted in a court of law for sexually assaulting an underage boy?

 

Since there is no official comment from the party distancing themselves from these remarks is it safe to assume that the Conservative leadership also hold the view that convictions for sexually assulting underage boys are miscarriages of justice as its been 3 days and no comment.. 

[weller54]

Have you noticed that these dimwit Tory cabinet members when interviewed and are asked a question always start their feeble answers with....

'well, look...... blah blah, lie, blah, lie..

[Jon the Hat]

35 minutes ago, Dames said:

I know theres a cost of living crisis and partygate but there should only be one question at PMQs today. Why is Crispin Blunt still a Conservative MP after twice defending a man convicted in a court of law for sexually assaulting an underage boy?

 

Since there is no official comment from the party distancing themselves from these remarks is it safe to assume that the Conservative leadership also hold the view that convictions for sexually assulting underage boys are miscarriages of justice as its been 3 days and no comment.. 

He obviously believes his friend is innocent.  He might be wrong, but I am not sure this is a basis for him to lose the whip?  There appear to be grounds for an appeal.

[Jon the Hat]

5 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Have you noticed that these dimwit Tory cabinet members when interviewed and are asked a question always start their feeble answers with....

'well, look...... blah blah, lie, blah, lie..

Its media training - they all do it.  You start with something you can easily say so you aren't sitting there struggling to start talking when you are in front of the cameras or a crowd.  You also see them say things like "that's a great question" or "thanks for asking me on the show", "good morning it's great to be here" and suchlike.  It helps to get your mind going.

[Vlad the Fox]

All these tory mps that keep appearing on tv to defend him are making themselves look as ridiculous as boris. Its embarrassing for them and makes me cringe to even watch (and I’ve never been a Tory) this crawling and toadyism, these are grown men and women with their own mind supposedly. If they’re trying to protect their jobs then surely it’s short term thinking as once he goes anyone replacing him will need to remove these pathetic individuals as the party will still be unelectable while they hold any position of power. 

[Dames]

16 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

He obviously believes his friend is innocent.  He might be wrong, but I am not sure this is a basis for him to lose the whip?  There appear to be grounds for an appeal.

His friend was found guilty in a court of law, it doesn't matter what Crispin believes. Given the nature of the crime and his responsibility as part of this country's legislature its outrageous and irresponsible he's making such comments.  

[urban.spaceman]

The report has landed....