The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Facecloth]

BBC News - Partygate: Explain why fine did not breach ministerial code, Boris Johnson told

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61653755

[weller54]

13 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

BBC News - Partygate: Explain why fine did not breach ministerial code, Boris Johnson told

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61653755

F**king Wan*er!!!

[Strokes]

4 hours ago, Facecloth said:

So they couldn't even make up 10 for the list.

 

1. Encourage fracking, shortcut rules on planning consultation via emergency act.

Don't know enough about fracking tbh, I know it's highly contentious. We'll let them have that one.

 

2.Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.

Is this life changing for anyone. Wtf are you doing if you need an ultra strong vacuum? Mines absolutely fine.

 

3.Remove precautionary principle restrictions (for instance) on early use of experimental treatments for seriously ill patients and GM crops.

Yay lets reduce the safeguards on how we treat the ill, and what we eat, the latter will probably lead to more ill people to experiment on. Good business thinking there. Supply and demand.

 

4.Abolish rules around the size of vans that need an operator's licence.

Let's make the roads less safe with less accountability. Cracking idea 

 

5.Abolish EU limits on electrical power levels of electrically assisted pedal cycles.

Increasing the power of unlicenced, uninsured powered things. Also in a obesity crisis I'm not sure encouraging more power assisted bikes and scooters is good thing.

 

6.Allow certain medical professionals, such as pharmacists and paramedics, to qualify in three years.

Yay, let's rush trough the people who hand out your life saving drug and treatment. Always gonna end well.

 

7.Remove requirements for agency workers to have all the attributes of a permanent employee.

Depends on the job I guess, about the only remotely sensible one so far.

 

8.Simplify the calculation of holiday pay (eg 12.07 percent of pay) to make it easier for businesses to operate.

Is working out 12.07% difficult? Maybe we need to be looking at education if it is. And this is based in our own minimum holiday, that we decide, so not sure how the EU makes us use that figure

 

9.Reduce requirements for businesses to conduct fixed wire testing and portable application testing.

Always a good idea to have more fire risks knocking around.

 

So we have 9, and maybe one is useful. The rest are pointless, cutting back standards or **** all to do with the EU as far as I can see. You'd think as he championed it so much JRM would have had a list ready 6 years ago not needed to express readers to provide him with a incomplete list of nothingness.

Does the 12.07 holiday thing not come up in your role as a payroll clerk?

 

Genuine inquiry not a dig.

[Facecloth]

19 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Does the 12.07 holiday thing not come up in your role as a payroll clerk?

 

Genuine inquiry not a dig.

Yes, it's based on our own minimum holiday entitlement, and it's really not hard to work out. So we all earn 12.07% of time at work in holiday and bank holidays. Each EU nation has there own minimum holiday entitlement, so we're not forced to do 28 days.

 

I'm assuming this maybe because a few years ago it was ruled that all overtime and commission had to be included in the calculations. So if you're contracted to 40 hours a week, but over 12 months* (used to be 12 weeks) you average more than that, your holiday pay would reflect this. From memory I think the original case was held over here and then put into EU law later, as with many things. I guess now we're free to scrap that. Lucky us eh. We'll all be poorer for taking time off work. Well those paid hourly mostly, who are often the poorest in society.

 

Most payroll software will work it out for you, or at the very least provide a report for the time period which you can easily grab a calculator and work it out. Nothing about ease, and all about taking something off the employee.

 

*if you've been there less than 12 months it's based on how long you've been there.

Edited 31 May 2022 by Facecloth

[Strokes]

12 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Yes, it's based on our own minimum holiday entitlement, and it's really not hard to work out. So we all earn 12.07% of time at work in holiday and bank holidays. Each EU nation has there own minimum holiday entitlement, so we're not forced to do 28 days.

 

I'm assuming this maybe because a few years ago it was ruled that all overtime and commission had to be included in the calculations. So if you're contracted to 40 hours a week, but over 12 months* (used to be 12 weeks) you average more than that, your holiday pay would reflect this. From memory I think the original case was held over here and then put into EU law later, as with many things. I guess now we're free to scrap that. Lucky us eh. We'll all be poorer for taking time off work. Well those paid hourly mostly, who are often the poorest in society.

 

Most payroll software will work it out for you, or at the very least provide a report for the time period which you can easily grab a calculator and work it out. Nothing about ease, and all about taking something off the employee.

 

*if you've been there less than 12 months it's based on how long you've been there.

I’d guess that changing it to a round number amount, would make easier for employees to work out if they were getting diddled or not though?

Edited 31 May 2022 by Strokes

[Facecloth]

Just now, Strokes said:

I’d guess that changing it to a round number amount would be easier for employees to work out if they were getting diddled or not though?

Well that's up to us to change the number of holidays we give employees, up or down, not to remove the entitlement to average holiday pay.

 

You'd honestly never know you've been paid right unless you went through each payslip or kept a spreadsheet each week/month, even of it was a round percentage. If you have your total 12 months hours and pay, and a calculator, 12.07% is as easy as 10%. And from a payroll view, it's not a difficult thing to work out.

[Strokes]

14 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Well that's up to us to change the number of holidays we give employees, up or down, not to remove the entitlement to average holiday pay.

 

You'd honestly never know you've been paid right unless you went through each payslip or kept a spreadsheet each week/month, even of it was a round percentage. If you have your total 12 months hours and pay, and a calculator, 12.07% is as easy as 10%. And from a payroll view, it's not a difficult thing to work out.

Fair enough, I’ve not worked in payroll for over 20 years and this is a new thing. In fact I don’t think I’ve been employed whilst this has been around (3 years self employed now), unless I’ve missed it? 
I genuinely hadn’t even heard of it until today.

[Facecloth]

@Strokes

 

I should point out we don't even really use the 12.07%. All the workers are contracted to weekly hours, we work out the daily average over 12 months and pay them that for days holiday. If the average is lower then their contractual we pay the contractual. Which is why I think this is to remove the average pay rights as 12.07% its not a huge problem for most payrolls.

 

The 12.07% really comes into play for casual workers. Those on zero hour contracts, those who fill in for other staff or work during school holidays. I've generally just paid a top up of 12.07% of the pay each time I pay them. So if you have a calculator you can easily look at the hours worked on the payslip and times that by 12.07%. The other way would be to keep a record of all hours work and multiply that by 12.07% so they have a total amount of holiday hours to take.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

@Strokes

 

I should point out we don't even really use the 12.07%. All the workers are contracted to weekly hours, we work out the daily average over 12 months and pay them that for days holiday. If the average is lower then their contractual we pay the contractual. Which is why I think this is to remove the average pay rights as 12.07% its not a huge problem for most payrolls.

 

The 12.07% really comes into play for casual workers. Those on zero hour contracts, those who fill in for other staff or work during school holidays. I've generally just paid a top up of 12.07% of the pay each time I pay them. So if you have a calculator you can easily look at the hours worked on the payslip and times that by 12.07%. The other way would be to keep a record of all hours work and multiply that by 12.07% so they have a total amount of holiday hours to take.

So is it holiday paid into the wages or holiday accrued in daily format? 
For instance if someone works 50 hours a week every week but is contacted to 40. Do they gain a day eventually or do you pay them 50 hours when they take a weeks holiday? I’m just struggling to understand how it is received by the employees at the moment.

[Spiritwalker]

5 hours ago, bovril said:

I'm pretty bored by it all now but I still contend Brexit is the strangest thing I've ever seen in a western democracy. It's been pure fantasy land from the get go. 

At least we got all that extra money for the NHS.

[Facecloth]

12 minutes ago, Strokes said:

So is it holiday paid into the wages or holiday accrued in daily format? 
For instance if someone works 50 hours a week every week but is contacted to 40. Do they gain a day eventually or do you pay them 50 hours when they take a weeks holiday? I’m just struggling to understand how it is received by the employees at the moment.

So for casual worker with no contracted hours it what's accrued on the hours you work. The 12.07% is based on the full time equivalent worker getting 28 days a years or 5.6 weeks. So if you're a uni student home for the holidays working 100 hours in the local supermarket, you've earned 12.07 hours holiday. It's totally up to ah employer how they pay the holiday to an employee, either pay it alongside the pay, or store it up from the employee to cash in later.

 

As for average pay, yeah, if you were on 40 hour contract but worked 50 hours every week for the past year, just to simplify things, you would get 50 hours for a week off, or 10 hours for a day.

 

The right to average pay and the right to 12.07% for casual workers were all on the same case, which why I think it's tied into removing average pay, and probably shortchanging casual staff, as I can't see them change the number of holidays.

Edited 31 May 2022 by Facecloth

[CosbehFox]

Part of the reason some won’t give Boris, the vote of no confidence is that they know they gained their seat largely through the cult of Boris. I look at my mate Gary Sambrook, Mr Big Dinners, and he’s been so reliant on that Brexit Boris buzz. 
 

We haven’t really been through Brexit anyway. Boris was still pissing about in Belfast the other week cos he still can’t rectify the situation there. 

[Facecloth]

8 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Part of the reason some won’t give Boris, the vote of no confidence is that they know they gained their seat largely through the cult of Boris. I look at my mate Gary Sambrook, Mr Big Dinners, and he’s been so reliant on that Brexit Boris buzz. 
 

We haven’t really been through Brexit anyway. Boris was still pissing about in Belfast the other week cos he still can’t rectify the situation there. 

I think if Johnson is confident of winning the vote he'll be happy to get the letters in and face it. Win and he's safe for a year at least.

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

So for casual worker with no contracted hours it what's accrued on the hours you work. The 12.07% is based on the full time equivalent worker getting 28 days a years or 5.6 weeks. So if you're a uni student home for the holidays working 100 hours in the local supermarket, you've earned 12.07 hours holiday. It's totally up to ah employer how they pay the holiday to an employee, either pay it alongside the pay, or store it up from the employee to cash in later.

 

As for average pay, yeah, if you were on 40 hour contract but worked 50 hours every week for the past year, just to simplify things, you would get 50 hours for a week off, or 10 hours for a day.

 

The right to average pay and the right to 12.07% for casual workers were all on the same case, which why I think it's tied into removing average pay, and probably shortchanging casual staff, as I can't see them change the number of holidays.

Yeah I’ve got you, I understand now. I’ve never really worked in an environment where part time or casual work has been normal, so I was just trying to understand it in relation to my experience. 
I’ve only ever seen holiday paid as a wage when I’ve worked for an agency or my wife as bank nurse. 
 

[zorro en españa]

6 hours ago, weller54 said:

His pathetic supporters keep bigging him up because he was the only one who could 'get Brexit done'! as if it was some triumph FFS!!... 

It's a fvcking disaster for our Country and future generations and anyone who was taken in by the lies and fairytales need to now realise it was for one and one only purpose.... to get that cretin into Power!!

I know this is very simplistic - but it’s spot on.  I wasn’t quite taken in but was prepared to give him a go.  How I bitterly regret that now.

[zorro en españa]

5 hours ago, Fazzer 7 said:

I feel that there is little to no chance of the Tories winning a second full term under Johnson, certainly not with a majority. 

 

So it begs the question. Why don't Tory MP's see that!  Are they so detached from the real world, or am I missing something.

There will be latent posters here that hate this thread.  I wish they’d raise their head above the parapet.

 

Embarrassed?  See my previous post - I got it wrong.

[zorro en españa]

@Facecloth To be honest I think you are trying to find something positive from that Mogg list.  IYKWIM.

 

Item 7 - agency workers: zero hr employees and agency workers are probably the least empowered people in the workforce.  Not sure watering down rights is a good step forward.  The difficulties of being in and out of work and having to then tackle the Universal Credit maze is a challenge.  Will this Brexit “benefit” attract people to the workplace?  Just a thought.

 

I enjoyed your exchange with Strokes re: 12.07.  Thanks

[Facecloth]

26 minutes ago, zorro en españa said:

@Facecloth To be honest I think you are trying to find something positive from that Mogg list.  IYKWIM.

 

Item 7 - agency workers: zero hr employees and agency workers are probably the least empowered people in the workforce.  Not sure watering down rights is a good step forward.  The difficulties of being in and out of work and having to then tackle the Universal Credit maze is a challenge.  Will this Brexit “benefit” attract people to the workplace?  Just a thought.

 

I enjoyed your exchange with Strokes re: 12.07.  Thanks

I think you're missing my sarcasm in the first post, there's nothing positive on the list.

 

If you read the exchange about the 12.07% I'm clearly against removing it, and even say as much as it will affect the poorest in society.

[st albans fox]

11 hours ago, Facecloth said:

I think if Johnson is confident of winning the vote he'll be happy to get the letters in and face it. Win and he's safe for a year at least.

may won her VNC 

depends what the numbers are

 

if it’s only the 60 that out letters in then it’s no problem 

If it goes above a third then he’s badly wounded - and the privileges committee report in the early autumn could then bring him down 

 

many commentators think we’ll have the 54 letters by middle next week - if not then, after the two by elections in a few weeks 

Edited 1 June 2022 by st albans fox

[Jon the Hat]

14 hours ago, Facecloth said:

 

As Daggers says its anonymous so it won't affect them. There will still be Conservative government when he's gone, so there's a chance they keep there roles anyway. And if he stays there's a chance they lose them in a government performing so shambolically. I imagine Johnson will want to be seen to have made change if he hangs on

 

Also if I was any of this current crop of Tories I'd be more concerned about keeping my job at the next election if he hangs not worrying about pleasing this lame duck of a PM.

I would say quite a few of them have absolutley **** all chance of keeping their jobs under a new leader, but perhaps I am being too optimistic.

[weller54]

Raab 🤬🤬🤬...

'well, look!!..... start of every fvcking answer!!!

..dickhead.

[Lionator]

Alicia Kearns is an interesting one. A Tory relative in Melton wants her gone at the next election for daring to stand up to fuhrer Boris. Seems like she’s principled and actually has ideas unlike most brain dead tories. 

[SpacedX]

34 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Raab 🤬🤬🤬...

'well, look!!..... start of every fvcking answer!!!

..dickhead.

I dunno...it's preferable to 'I mean'. 

[weller54]

43 minutes ago, Line-X said:

I dunno...it's preferable to 'I mean'. 

Well look, I mean.....😂

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-61644662

 

Asinine politicking getting in the way of valuable research collaboration.

 

How daft.