The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Daggers]

10 hours ago, Strokes said:

Your not understanding what I am saying, you won’t bring those voters over to alternative, but there are many that won’t vote Labour or Lib Dem that will currently only vote conservative or abstain that  can be bought. But they do need sweeteners. Allowing the debate to become about identity will drive them away from these parties.

If nobody gives any ground, don’t be surprised if the result is the same.

I really don’t. I agree. 
 

From my perspective, the only party driving an identity politics agenda is the Tories. I don’t see Labour or the Lib Dems doing it, I just see them accused of it by right wing media and social media troll farms. 

[The Year Of The Fox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61726091
 

The good thing is that each time Boris ****s up, he gives us a biscuit 

[Sly]

It feels like the Lib Dems are non existent.

 

We’re all aware that a good proportion of people won’t vote on polices, but personalities. 
 

When it comes to General Election time, we’ll still get a certain number of people voting for Boris over Starmer unfortunately. 
 

I see the BBC are running the line today that party members are urging Boris to cut taxes to reclaim faith in the public. Surely we’re way past that. 

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, Sly said:

It feels like the Lib Dems are non existent.

 

We’re all aware that a good proportion of people won’t vote on polices, but personalities. 
 

When it comes to General Election time, we’ll still get a certain number of people voting for Boris over Starmer unfortunately. 
 

I see the BBC are running the line today that party members are urging Boris to cut taxes to reclaim faith in the public. Surely we’re way past that. 

Cutting taxes is a great way of putting money into people's pockets.  Reduces their cost of living and encourages spending which boosts the overall economy.  Mind you there are always some Tories who would cut more taxes whether it is a good idea or not.

[st albans fox]

7 hours ago, weller54 said:

I know!!.. it's absolutely pathetic.

'oven ready deal' is another!

We have some real thickos in this Country who believe all this nonsense!🤬

 

7 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I used to think that - but I think it's worse. I think it's proud, deliberate ignorance - people who wear it like a crown of virtue.

 

The real thickos way outnumber the deliberately ignorant ….   I would class the basically ignorant in with the real thickos ……

[The Year Of The Fox]

25 minutes ago, Sly said:

It feels like the Lib Dems are non existent.

 

We’re all aware that a good proportion of people won’t vote on polices, but personalities. 
 

When it comes to General Election time, we’ll still get a certain number of people voting for Boris over Starmer unfortunately. 
 

I see the BBC are running the line today that party members are urging Boris to cut taxes to reclaim faith in the public. Surely we’re way past that. 

I’m not sure we are- FT certainly seems incredibly anti Tory/anti Boris but I’m not sure if that’s just a bandwagon everyone’s on or that it’s always been this way. 
 

Combine that with the Tory voters going into hiding on here too as they don’t really have much to shout about 😂

 

I can’t wait for the following comments to rile certain people and the ensuing clamour for them to tell me how much more noble they are than I am,  but I’d like to think voters are more concerned about what lies ahead rather than what’s been and gone.
 

Every single one of us is being hit hard at the moment. Even people who up until this point perhaps have been able to live life pretty financially free are looking over their shoulder and reining in the spending. And that’s before you actually start to look at people who are already classed as poor. 
 

The only thing I’m looking for in ANY potential leader of the country is to get us out of this cost of living crisis. Not a sticking plaster of a few £££ in handouts, but proper cuts. They should windfall tax petrol companies as well as the energy companies (though that’s another sticking plaster) 

 

We are bombing straight into a huge recession all whilst people bicker over historical doings. Recessions are part of an economic cycle and aren’t usually TOO worrying because we know we’ll come out the other side of it within a few months. This is different though. If the cost of living crisis isn’t addressed properly, we’re going to be in the shit for a long long long time. 
 

To me, that is FAR more important than being concerned with some parties I weren’t invited to, or how many birds Boris has boned in the past. I’d like to think the majority of the population think the same and when the time comes, will act accordingly based on who’s best to get us out of the forthcoming shit 

 

This isn’t a pro Boris post before those in paragraph 1 claim so. But merely pointing out I think people are barking up the wrong tree in terms of reasons for wanting Boris gone. 

Edited 8 June 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[CosbehFox]

Take your overall point but following for me:- 

 

1) is this not a bit like when you have a football manager at your club for about three years and you look at his historical performance, then your tally how this might play in the future? That’s generally how you use an indicator of a prospects on a future performance. Cough Rodgers Cough
 

2) why are people poor? Across their time in power, the Tories have made a mess of universal credit and the absolute awful situations people with disabilities are put in repeatedly. The image of food banks increasing is never been tackled head on. 
 

3) in the last few months we’ve already had the NI rise which directly affects the average man rather than the richer person. Lots of examples where peoples pay rises are being in effect wiped by the increase. 

 

Alongside a number of other factors, the historical performance of the Tories has been one of the reasons for the current squeeze on finance.
 

Like it or not, Brexit is one of the factors in the increase of food - the impact on transport and import/export. And that’s still a current issue because of the Irish Sea border.

 

The energy issues have been something which was always a couple of steps away from occurring because the lack of long term planning. Combined with an absolute need to start being sustainable, the current government are effectively asking Joe public to stand the cost for it in their own homes.
 

I totally take your point what may change the general public opinion in what happens over the next six to twelve months but ultimately the root of the situation needs to be identified too. 

Edited 8 June 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[Jon the Hat]

11 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Take your overall point but following for me:- 

 

1) is this not a bit like when you have a football manager at your club for about three years and you look at his historical performance, then your tally how this might play in the future? That’s generally how you use an indicator of a prospects on a future performance. Cough Rodgers Cough
 

2) why are people poor? Across their time in power, the Tories have made a mess of universal credit and the absolute awful situations people with disabilities are put in repeatedly. The image of food banks increasing is never been tackled head on. 
 

3) in the last few months we’ve already had the NI rise which directly affects the average man rather than the richer person. Lots of examples where peoples pay rises are being in effect wiped by the increase. 

 

Alongside a number of other factors, the historical performance of the Tories has been one of the reasons for the current squeeze on finance.
 

Like it or not, Brexit is one of the factors in the increase of food - the impact on transport and import/export. And that’s still a current issue because of the Irish Sea border.

 

The energy issues have been something which was always a couple of steps away from occurring because the lack of long term planning. Combined with an absolute need to start being sustainable, the current government are effectively asking Joe public to stand the cost for it in their own homes.
 

I totally take your point what may change the general public opinion in what happens over the next six to twelve months but ultimately the root of the situation needs to be identified too. 

Universal Credit seems to be running pretty well now from an admin point of view - no major change like that is without some teething troubles. The issue then is the failure to increase it in line with the true cost of living. As inflation gets higher I think we see the truth that some of the metrics used are not reflecting the impact on those living on these benefits.

 

I agree on the DLA, shocking outsource disaster impacting those least able to deal with it.

 

Brexit is part of the reason some prices have increased, but mostly it is down to fuel cost and transport issues including pallets and containers shortages, trucks off the road because drivers have covid, and a very very lean supply chain simply not designed to deal with any of this.

[The Year Of The Fox]

12 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Take your overall point but following for me:- 

 

1) is this not a bit like when you have a football manager at your club for about three years and you look at his historical performance, then your tally how this might play in the future? That’s generally how you use an indicator of a prospects on a future performance. Cough Rodgers Cough
 

2) why are people poor? Across their time in power, the Tories have made a mess of universal credit and the absolute awful situations people with disabilities are put in repeatedly. The image of food banks increasing is never been tackled head on. 
 

3) in the last few months we’ve already had the NI rise which directly affects the average man rather than the richer person. Lots of examples where peoples pay rises are being in effect wiped by the increase. 

 

Alongside a number of other factors, the historical performance of the Tories has been one of the reasons for the current squeeze on finance.
 

Like it or not, Brexit is one of the factors in the increase of food - the impact on transport and import/export. And that’s still a current issue because of the Irish Sea border.

 

The energy issues have been something which was always a couple of steps away from occurring because the lack of long term planning. Combined with an absolute need to start being sustainable, the current government are effectively asking Joe public to stand the cost for it in their own homes.
 

I totally take your point what may change the general public opinion in what happens over the next six to twelve months but ultimately the root of the situation needs to be identified too. 

1. I take your point on that 🤣

 

I actually take your point on all of your post, though I admit I’m fortunate enough to not to have had any dealings with 2. 
 

I feel with Brexit that we’ll now never truly know the impact of that alone due to Covid and Russia, which I feel is unfortunate because I honestly believe it’ll be positive. Most of my mates are remainers and in the many many arguments over the years, I’ve always stated that the first 5-10 years after leaving the EU, things would get worse before becoming better than when we were in the EU. I still believe that but that’s not for this discussion.

 

If more people could dissect the Tories reign like you have in your post then I think it’s far more helpful than someone screaming ‘PARTIES’ or ‘serial cheater’ 

[Wolfox]

Not a very balanced piece, but quite remarkable really….  This isn’t news…. It’s a summary of what we know about the man

Edited 8 June 2022 by Wolfox

[CosbehFox]

8 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

1. I take your point on that 🤣

 

I actually take your point on all of your post, though I admit I’m fortunate enough to not to have had any dealings with 2. 
 

I feel with Brexit that we’ll now never truly know the impact of that alone due to Covid and Russia, which I feel is unfortunate because I honestly believe it’ll be positive. Most of my mates are remainers and in the many many arguments over the years, I’ve always stated that the first 5-10 years after leaving the EU, things would get worse before becoming better than when we were in the EU. I still believe that but that’s not for this discussion.

 

If more people could dissect the Tories reign like you have in your post then I think it’s far more helpful than someone screaming ‘PARTIES’ or ‘serial cheater’ 

I think your point is valid regards how do peoples opinions change in general to Boris and the Tories in the next twelve months because it’s hard to provide such dissection in a concise manner. 
 

I generally think that stuff such as ‘Partygate’ has a limited time in the public conscious. Go on a building site, everyone is bored of that and keeping the story going probably actually benefits BJ and the Tories. 
 

Personally I think his love life etc just speaks for the bloke really. No morals. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

1 hour ago, Sly said:

It feels like the Lib Dems are non existent.

 

We’re all aware that a good proportion of people won’t vote on polices, but personalities. 
 

When it comes to General Election time, we’ll still get a certain number of people voting for Boris over Starmer unfortunately. 
 

I see the BBC are running the line today that party members are urging Boris to cut taxes to reclaim faith in the public. Surely we’re way past that. 

I think it's worse than that now, it's not even personalities, it's name recognition. If you were voting for someone on their personality, surely nobody would vote for Boris Johnson in a million years?

 

Something I hear people say quite a lot, and certainly comes up quite a bit when they interview folk in the street on the news, is how politicians are 'all the same'. Whilst in demographic terms that might be true to some extent, in terms of personality I don't think it is at all. You look at Johnson's track record in life and think all politicians are like that? We really have got low expectations if that's the case

[Number 6]

It's much harder to deliver a "Got Brexit Done" type message, and make people believe it, when they're seeing the money in their pocket go less and less far. Can only see those issues getting worse up to the next scheduled GE, and not sure the Tories can afford to bring that date forward now. They're keeping the ball in the corner hoping they cling on for a 0-0.

 

I get the comments about Starmer being a bit dull but I think he's generally gone in with a plan of playing the long game. 2019 result was a mess and he couldn't touch the obvious elephant in the room in Brexit. Then came a pandemic where the govt were on TV every day and then straight into a war between Russia and Ukraine. Not the easiest seas to navigate.

 

It seems there may be a softening of stance on competing for every seat now too. A bit of cooperation with the Lib Dems will go a long way to getting rid of the current shower in charge, along with their own incompetent governing of course.

 

I'm sure many of his ex wives can attest to the fact that Johnson never changes. This is a pattern and has always been the case. Maybe people saw the rule breaking as necessary for their precious Brexit in 2019 but he was always unfit to govern.

Edited 8 June 2022 by Number 6

[Lionator]

My main fear is Johnson coming out with a lot of promises (that he won’t fulfil) in 2024 and people buying into them. 
 

There’ll also be some kind of sustain smear on Labour. Already we’re seeing Tory MP’s saying it would catastrophic for the country is Labour were governing yet don’t say why. 

[Dunge]

40 minutes ago, Lionator said:

My main fear is Johnson coming out with a lot of promises (that he won’t fulfil) in 2024 and people buying into them. 
 

There’ll also be some kind of sustain smear on Labour. Already we’re seeing Tory MP’s saying it would catastrophic for the country is Labour were governing yet don’t say why. 

I don’t think this line will work again, at least not to anywhere near the same degree. Labour has changed significantly since the last election. It can be argued that Starmer is uninspiring, but they’re going to have a hard time convincing people they should fear him.

[ealingfox]

2 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

1. I take your point on that 🤣

 

I actually take your point on all of your post, though I admit I’m fortunate enough to not to have had any dealings with 2. 
 

I feel with Brexit that we’ll now never truly know the impact of that alone due to Covid and Russia, which I feel is unfortunate because I honestly believe it’ll be positive. Most of my mates are remainers and in the many many arguments over the years, I’ve always stated that the first 5-10 years after leaving the EU, things would get worse before becoming better than when we were in the EU. I still believe that but that’s not for this discussion.

 

If more people could dissect the Tories reign like you have in your post then I think it’s far more helpful than someone screaming ‘PARTIES’ or ‘serial cheater’ 

 

I think you're being a bit of an ostrich if you think these are the only reasons anyone might criticise Johnson.

[The Year Of The Fox]

5 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

I think you're being a bit of an ostrich if you think these are the only reasons anyone might criticise Johnson.

Cardiff Fox bothered to dissect it rather than harp on about irrelevant/historical stuff

 

If people made the effort to do the same, perhaps there’d be less support for Boris than there is now 

[ealingfox]

3 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Cardiff Fox bothered to dissect it rather than harp on about irrelevant/historical stuff

 

If people made the effort to do the same, perhaps there’d be less support for Boris than there is now 

 

Yeah you've mentioned what you think are irrelevant, the parties and the questionable morality, but they aren't the only reasons people are criticising him. Even though it's well documented you still seem to be reverting to the idea that people are doing it without good reason.

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

 

Yeah you've mentioned what you think are irrelevant, the parties and the questionable morality, but they aren't the only reasons people are criticising him. Even though it's well documented you still seem to be reverting to the idea that people are doing it without good reason.

Not at all

 

Im saying that in the main, and I’m not talking solely on FT- friends, the media, social media, the questions over the government and Boris in particular always revert back to Partygate. 
 

There’s many sticks to bash them with that might hopefully reap rewards for the public. Bashing them over Partygate won’t do a thing. We’ve already seen how easily Boris has brushed it all aside, as well as the 140 votes against his leadership. 

[Finnaldo]

9 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Cardiff Fox bothered to dissect it rather than harp on about irrelevant/historical stuff

 

If people made the effort to do the same, perhaps there’d be less support for Boris than there is now 

I don’t want to be rude but he’s been a public figure for decades and a wet wipe for the majority of that period, he was known as something of a court jester pre-Brexit, I don’t get how people need convincing he’s a poor Prime Minister? 
 

If you don’t want to consider in-office law breaking and endless affairs and child abandonment as serious character flaws for the leader of one of the world’s foremost countries, then there’s the complete bag-of-air that’s levelling up which has done absolutely nothing of note despite being a flagship policy, and the inability to fight immigration to the point channel crossings have risen rather than fell in his premiership. Most solutions to this have been preposterously expensive or have no real ability to performed on any large scale. 

Partygate is just the most recent and easily quantifiable of reasons why he’s unfit for office, hence the media around it.

[Tommy Fresh]

Just reposting this...

[The boy Linacre]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I think your point is valid regards how do peoples opinions change in general to Boris and the Tories in the next twelve months because it’s hard to provide such dissection in a concise manner. 
 

I generally think that stuff such as ‘Partygate’ has a limited time in the public conscious. Go on a building site, everyone is bored of that and keeping the story going probably actually benefits BJ and the Tories. 
 

Personally I think his love life etc just speaks for the bloke really. No morals. 

The only paper I read is the Sunday Times and interestingly (as a Tory rag), they have had a few articles over the last few weeks where they have conceded that Brexit has been worse for us.

Apparently our exchange rate is suffering and depressed due strongly to other nations perceptions of our recovery out of Brexit, but the "Brexit issues" we are encountering in our supply chains are affecting UK PLC's ability to trade effectively.

 

For me as other's mentioned Boris was a buffoon, now he is an embarrassment.  The 4 wives/partners etc. was emblematic of his underlying moral compass.

Partygate etc. and not having the honour to resign and what looks to be lying is not appropriate for a person in that position, sadly for them they need to be more than squeaky clean.

 

He still has to appear before a Commons Select Committee on charges of lying to parliament and the view is that will be the reall challenge.

 

This always happen, when the Tories are in power too long, they become flippant about the country and its people, they need to be kept honest and so need a spell in opposition.

[Sly]

I’ve always said that I’ve voted conservative until the last election. I couldn’t vote for Boris, as I didn’t believe and still don’t believe in Brexit. The entire Northern Ireland situation is a mess. 
 

Boris won a good proportion of the last election on not being Jeremy Corbyn and being the face of Brexit. People took to his bumbling personality and we’ve got to remember, not everyone will know the prior history on Boris, as they’ll only see the sound bites on TV. 
 

If Starmer and Ed Davey could elevate their status and just appear non wooden, they’d stand a better chance. 
 

Someone needs to come out and hammer home “this is what I’m going to do for you”, that message needs driving out and a rallying call put across the country, as that’s how they’ll win. It’s not just one form of communication though, it’s internet, social media, face to face ….. interact with people on the ground, listen to the issues and not garner an opinion from an ivory tower. 
 

Party or not, we’re at the point where people can’t afford to get to work, are eating from food banks and skipping meals so kids can eat.
 

I won’t disagree that some sections of society need a reality check to reevaluate the needs / wants, as going out getting smashed every weekend, splashing cash on stuff then pleading poverty isn’t right. When the average person who budgets and plans for these things is feeling the pain, we’re in trouble. 
 

We’ll spiral into recession quickly, then it’ll all fall in on itself like a house of cards if we’re not careful.

 

People stop spending, so save cash for essentials > Business don’t have the income so cut staff > People no longer have cash. 
 

It’s a circular economy, the challenge is keeping the cash flowing.

[hackneyfox]

1 hour ago, The boy Linacre said:

The only paper I read is the Sunday Times and interestingly (as a Tory rag), they have had a few articles over the last few weeks where they have conceded that Brexit has been worse for us.

Apparently our exchange rate is suffering and depressed due strongly to other nations perceptions of our recovery out of Brexit, but the "Brexit issues" we are encountering in our supply chains are affecting UK PLC's ability to trade effectively.

 

Most people will just hear the narrative that Covid is to blame for everything.

Strange that when there was a world wide crash the tories and media blamed, and continue to blame, it all on Gordon Brown.

[foxes1988]

27 minutes ago, hackneyfox said:

Most people will just hear the narrative that Covid is to blame for everything.

Strange that when there was a world wide crash the tories and media blamed, and continue to blame, it all on Gordon Brown.

Yeah I have no idea why people fell for it, Browns response to the banking collapse was generally viewed positively in other countries and by analysts.  Plus the only failings Labour made with the crash was that they went too 'Conservative' in their approach with their little regulation of the financial sector.  The Tories have had bigger negative impact on the cost of living crisis with their austerity measures they had for years the affects of which are being compounded now in this crisis especially as the party we are supposed to believe are best for the economy haven't managed to help it grow much since they came in.

 

Although having said that I do think part of it was just Labour being in power for such a long time and also the Iraq war and being pushed around by the US definitely had an affect in getting the coalition in.

Edited 8 June 2022 by foxes1988