The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[Fazzer 7]

47 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

As long as countries and borders exist, you cannot have a complete open door policy. Resources would soon get overwhelmed and we all would be affected.

Yes, we argue about current immigration policy, but some control is necessary. Can we agree on that?

 

On politics live this lunchtime even the LibDem woman advocated a cap of 10k refugees plus 10k accompanied children. which would probably be acceptable to most. Except there aren't anywhere near that number of kids or even women who make the crossing. And even then, as Tory MP Tom Hunt pointed out, a cap wouldn't stop the dinghies anyway. So then what do they do with them? 10k already this year, close to 30k last year. It is simply unsustainable. The only thing that will deter them is either the threat of removal to another country or make coming less appealing by not handing out such generous benefits. Like hotel rooms free food clothing phone medical care and even spending money. Are the French this generous? 

[yorkie1999]

55 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

As long as countries and borders exist, you cannot have a complete open door policy. Resources would soon get overwhelmed and we all would be affected.

Yes, we argue about current immigration policy, but some control is necessary. Can we agree on that?

 

Yes, but it's such a minefield of who to allow in and who not to allow in, there's just so many arguements and opinions, such as, why do you want to come to the UK, how have you travelled 2000 miles across the EU and managed to get a boat for 5 grand (maybe that's where the 50 million we gave France went).

        I think for a start someone needs to distinguish between who is an immigrant and who is a refugee, imo, an immigrant is someone who is bringing something to the country, be it skills, education or even working in the fields, whatever it is shouldn't be freeloading off the state because that's unaffordable. Why can't farmers and employers who need unskilled labour register on a database what their requirments are, "i need 50 people plucking chickens" let 50 people in, lose their job, they go back unless they've done 5 years. 

   

[Daggers]

12 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

 

Sadly, the reality is that we don't have the space or jobs for them. It would be great for all these people to come over, work in public services and pay tax but they can't - for numerous reasons.

Pigs culled because of a shortage of meat processors. Fields left fallow or crops trashed because of the absence of farm workers. Flights cancelled because no one wants their shit underpaid job back after being sacked…

 

We have space and jobs. The only sad thing is that we also have world-leading bigots and idiots who hate forinaz. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

9 minutes ago, Daggers said:

Flights cancelled because no one wants their shit underpaid job back after being sacked…

Good point.

Wonder what has driven down wages and conditions? 

[Tommy Fresh]

41 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

On politics live this lunchtime even the LibDem woman advocated a cap of 10k refugees plus 10k accompanied children. which would probably be acceptable to most. Except there aren't anywhere near that number of kids or even women who make the crossing. And even then, as Tory MP Tom Hunt pointed out, a cap wouldn't stop the dinghies anyway. So then what do they do with them? 10k already this year, close to 30k last year. It is simply unsustainable. The only thing that will deter them is either the threat of removal to another country or make coming less appealing by not handing out such generous benefits. Like hotel rooms free food clothing phone medical care and even spending money. Are the French this generous? 

Pretty sure I've seen figures before that other countries take in more, and do a lot more than we do. But don't let that take away from whatever red top you read.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Don't know if the last minute intervention by a European Court of Human Rights lawyer carries any legal weight or is just god level gammon trolling 

[Sampson]

13 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Good point.

Wonder what has driven down wages and conditions? 

Penny pinching and tax dodging from billionaires trying to make another few hundred quid that they don’t even need and will never realistically spend, trade unions being constantly belittled and undermined in this country and therefore not having the power to negotiate better working conditions or salaries, corporations who don’t care one iota about their staff and treat them as animals and not good enough labour laws to stop corporations churning through agency staff in busier seasons and kicking people out for nothing after 3 weeks mostly I’d reckon.

Edited 14 June 2022 by Sampson

[Zear0]

28 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Don't know if the last minute intervention by a European Court of Human Rights lawyer carries any legal weight or is just god level gammon trolling 

I chuckled at the same thing. You couldn't make a headline up that's more antagonistic to that demographic. 

[Heathrow fox]

Worth remembering the outrage that followed Covid 19.We’re an island,New Zealand kept it out,shut the ports ffs!!! blah blah blah.Not all that bleated about this were Daily Mail readers.Be kind to immigrants soon went out the window 

 

[Heathrow fox]

On 13/06/2022 at 11:59, Sampson said:

I remember a yougov poll that said like Brexit, immigration is one of those things that those under 40s view very positively on the whole and those under 50s view very negatively on the whole. (Average median voting age is 47 for reference).

 

It’s just the division of those who were born the post-mass globalisation and mass post-industrialsation of the late 80s/early 90s and beforehand really.

 

Right now we’re still just about in the period where those born before are still the voting majority but we’re in the grey area where it’s going to change over soon. I think that’s why the country is so divided by age more than it ever has been and no longer by class.
 

The opinion will change naturally as the demographics of the country change, same with the views of the EU will naturally be more positive in 15-20 years just due to changing demographics.

 

But yes, giving higher taxes to immigrants sounds pretty awful to me. Its treating people as first or second class humans based on whether they were lucky or unlucky enough to have their parents **** in between one set of imaginary lines or not.

 

Said it before though - I’m convinced this Rwanda thing was always designed to fail from the start. And has solely been designed so that the Tories can say “look how these Lefty lawyers and campaigners are blocking our attempts to govern and solve problems” so they can start bringing that attack out as a retort whenever they’re asked about their failings as a government come the next election.

I’ve heard this changing demographic argument since I was about eleven years old.Another Ten year’s time and this lot will be dead and we’ll have a Labour government for ever and ever.It never happens.

[HighPeakFox]

The above the above post has confused me. 

Edited 14 June 2022 by HighPeakFox

[adam]

It's a disgraceful policy but something needs to be done to stop these illegal immigrants coming here. Another 350 today. Must be costing us all an absolute fortune.

[Sampson]

1 minute ago, Heathrow fox said:

I’ve heard this changing demographic argument since I was about eleven years old.Another Ten year’s time and this lot will be dead and we’ll have a Labour government for ever and ever.It never happens.

Whether you’ve heard it before or not, the Yougov polling data suggests the country is far more divided by age than it has been in the past and far less divided by class. The difference is the voting data seems to suggest that it is more true than any anecdotal evidence did when you were 10 years old.

[Lionator]

Fantastic news that it’s been stopped. If you don’t like it, then direct your hatred to something good for society. Yes unfiltered immigration and people trafficking is troubling, however sending traumatised people to a dictatorial country who experienced a genocide 28 years ago is not the solution. 

Edited 14 June 2022 by Lionator

[Otis]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

 Flights cancelled because no one wants their shit underpaid job back after being sacked…

 

 

1 hour ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Good point.

Wonder what has driven down wages and conditions? 

EMA offering baggage handling jobs with a 4am start on minimum wage, with the top benifit of "Free Parking".

 

It's ****ing hilarious.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Zear0 said:

I chuckled at the same thing. You couldn't make a headline up that's more antagonistic to that demographic. 

Priti is going to be fumin 

 

I wonder if its has been publicised in this way (ECJ only stops one person being deported)  in order to save the face of the govt - as you say, they will froth at the mouth at the fact that the euro court has intervened and not ask any other questions 

[Free Falling Foxes]

10 minutes ago, Otis said:

 

EMA offering baggage handling jobs with a 4am start on minimum wage, with the top benifit of "Free Parking".

 

It's ****ing hilarious.

Those type of conditions came about because of what was a then plentiful number of people looking for work and accepting of those type of conditions.

There are a record amount of vacancies currently, so if you want to attract new staff, improve wages.

 

Edited 14 June 2022 by Free Falling Foxes

[Otis]

6 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Those type of conditions came about because of what was a then plentiful number of people looking for work and accepting of those type of conditions.

There are a record amount of vacancies currently, so if you want to attract new staff, improve wages.

 

Spot on. Yet some people think the only answer is to bring in foreign workers. 

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

Those type of conditions came about because of what was a then plentiful number of people looking for work and accepting of those type of conditions.

There are a record amount of vacancies currently, so if you want to attract new staff, improve wages.

 

That’s going to happen - unavoidable.  Lucky we don’t have an inflation problem …….

[weller54]

8 minutes ago, Otis said:

Spot on. Yet some people think the only answer is to bring in foreign workers. 

It's not the only answer, but it's certainly part of it!

Fact is there are a number of jobs in certain sectors that the Brits won't do!!..... it's beneath them.

Edited 14 June 2022 by weller54

[BlueSi13]

So to be clear, this policy passed the Supreme Court, High Court and the Court of Appeal.  Yet has seemingly been blocked by a foreign court.  Whether you like this policy or not that isn't acceptable.  Decisions on what to do with people who enter the UK illegally should be decided by our elected officials and our own rule of law.

 

The clamour for us to leave the ECHR will be huge after this so anyone cheering this decision may be a tad short-sighted.

 

Electorally it's an absolute gift to the Conservatives as well.  Gives them an easy out when criticised about failing to stop the boats and break the traffickers.  Also sets up a new battleground perfectly for them.  Especially if Labour immediately fall in behind the ECHR's decision which would be the form for them.

[Sampson]

The clamour to leave the ECHR won’t be that huge and neither will be a gift to the electorate as leaving it would invalidate the Good Friday Agreement and the Tories have spent the last 2 years arguing the NI protocol needs to end and arguing that upholding the GFA and keeping together the UK and peace in Ireland should be priorities #1 and #2.

 

They’ve already stitched themselves up with regards to the ECHR.

 

And of course that’s acceptable for UK law to be overridden by supranational law, the UK should abide by international law, just like we expect other countries too.

The UK’s elected officials chose to join the ECHR in the first place and then chose not to leave it after Brexit (largely not to affect the CTA and GFA). We did elect our officials to sign up to supranational law.

Edited 14 June 2022 by Sampson

[BlueSi13]

So reading in to this further it looks like the ECHR have blocked deportations until at least 3 weeks after the conclusion of the Judical Review of the policy which takes place at the end of this month.  

 

So a delay.  Not a permanent block.  

[Brizzle Fox]

2 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Don't know if the last minute intervention by a European Court of Human Rights lawyer carries any legal weight or is just god level gammon trolling 

It's brilliant isn't it.  Top banter.

 

Bloody Europeans telling us what to do. I didn't vote for Brexit to let this happen....

[Brizzle Fox]

17 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

So reading in to this further it looks like the ECHR have blocked deportations until at least 3 weeks after the conclusion of the Judical Review of the policy which takes place at the end of this month.  

 

So a delay.  Not a permanent block.  

Also shows you how ****ing incompetent this govt is.  Only had to wait a few weeks.

 

It will serve its purpose for them in the short term with their base though I suppose, as they can play gesture politics in threatening to leave the ECHR and join that upstanding bastion of democracy, Russia, as the only other country to do this.

 

Another totally empty gesture as of course they can't leave the ECHR without breaking the Good Friday agreement, and even this government's disdain for the union,  surely doesn't stretch that far.

 

Does it?