Captain... Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 2 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Idealistically, a human life should have price beyond anything material, and only comparable to another life in terms of price. Practically, in a time and space where the generation and distribution of resources necessary for life is still imperfect enough to have scarcity be a factor, of course some decisions have to be made that put a material price on a human life. Perhaps the hallmark of a truly developed society is one where such discussions are no longer needed. Maybe we'll get there one day. There will always be a value placed on lives. If you look at the number deaths on the roads, we could take the approach lives must be saved at any cost then all cars will be limited to 20mph, require an MOT every month and pedestrians would be required to wear protective clothing. Yes there would be no deaths on the road but we'd live in a ridiculously expensive nanny state. (Not really sure what this adds to the discussion). If the government really were concerned about the lives lost crossing the channel they would create an effective and efficient processing system on both sides of the channel. The fact that the channel crossing is expensive and dangerous fits their agenda and so have no desire to actually resolve, they are just determined to make the idea of coming to the UK illegally as unpleasant as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 1 hour ago, bmt said: "On the amount of money the scheme costs, she says you cannot place a price on a life lost at sea in the English Channel" from BBC PMQs coverage. This is such bollocks. A huge amount of government spending, in particular decision-making on health funding, is founded in the belief that you absolutely can put a price on the value of life (ie. the statistical value of a life). It's obviously bollocks because this policy isn't about saving lives. It's not even about targeting human trafficking. It's about trying to have a political scene dominated by culture war and emotional reasoning. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 34 minutes ago, Captain... said: There will always be a value placed on lives. If you look at the number deaths on the roads, we could take the approach lives must be saved at any cost then all cars will be limited to 20mph, require an MOT every month and pedestrians would be required to wear protective clothing. Yes there would be no deaths on the road but we'd live in a ridiculously expensive nanny state. (Not really sure what this adds to the discussion). If the government really were concerned about the lives lost crossing the channel they would create an effective and efficient processing system on both sides of the channel. The fact that the channel crossing is expensive and dangerous fits their agenda and so have no desire to actually resolve, they are just determined to make the idea of coming to the UK illegally as unpleasant as possible. ...as long as there are roads, and cars, and other forms of transport that have an attendant risk, yes. Thing is, a hundred years ago cars were barely a thing. What will personal transportation be like in a hundred years time? My point that adds to the discussion is that: of course we put a price on life now, but it's rather short-sighted to think it will "always" be the case when change often happens so quickly, relatively speaking, nor that no longer having to do so isn't something worth working towards. Certainly agree with all of the second paragraph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalFox Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: I don't much like the Rwanda policy, and I wonder whether the Government are even serious about it, or whether it is part of the 'being seen to be doing something about the boats" approach. That said, I do think there is an argument for returning people who are clearly economic migrants and come to the UK via several safe countries looking for work. And I don't blame people for wanting to come here, but they must go through the proper channels - not across the channel. For a start it is not safe to do so, and more people succeed the more will try it. Policy which welcomes people who come illegally puts others at risk of death. The question is then, if you cannot send them back to France, where do you send them? It's never been legal to just decide to come over to the UK for economic reasons. This policy doesn't apply to economic migrants who don't have valid reason to be here. Those would be deported to their country of origin or ideally refused entry in the first place. The obvious solution is you simply make it a legal reason to come to the UK to claim asylum. Then when people arrive they are processed in an efficient and respectful process with those failing being sent back. There's no need for this Rwanda policy which isn't actually saving any money. On top of that it's well worth having the capacity to process refugees because who knows what the future might hold, we've recently struggled to accommodate Afghan and Ukrainian refugees despite strong public support. If you did this then the only people with an incentive to use unsafe routes would be people who intended to hide from the authorities. Nobody is paying human traffickers several thousand pounds to make a potentially lethal channel crossing instead of buying a ticket on a ferry. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazzer 7 Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 19 hours ago, Tommy Fresh said: Pretty sure I've seen figures before that other countries take in more, and do a lot more than we do. But don't let that take away from whatever red top you read. Online Telegraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weller54 Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 Bozo's ethics adviser just resigned!!... 😂😂😂.. what ethics? ..the c**t hasn't got any to be advised on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafox Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, weller54 said: Bozo's ethics adviser just resigned!!... 😂😂😂.. what ethics? ..the c**t hasn't got any to be advised on! Apparently unable to continue in the role after the PM's huge gaffes around partygate and other issues. Lord Geidt resigns as Boris Johnson's ethics adviser (telegraph.co.uk) At least Lord Geidt seems to have ethics and a conscience. Edited 15 June 2022 by Parafox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathrow fox Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 Just watched the back end of ITN.Imran Khan talking sense.Can’t we sign him up and give him a go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Falling Foxes Posted 15 June 2022 Share Posted 15 June 2022 10 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said: Just watched the back end of ITN.Imran Khan talking sense.Can’t we sign him up and give him a go? Leicestershire CCC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SecretPro Posted 15 June 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 15 June 2022 What a home secretary should be: 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post weller54 Posted 15 June 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 15 June 2022 7 minutes ago, SecretPro said: What a home secretary should be: Patel is a vile, nasty piece of work!!.. that smirk is pure evil!! What has our Country become 😢!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 15 hours ago, weller54 said: That description perfectly describes the typical Brexiteer!! You think that describes 52% of the voting population? You don't get out much do you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 2 hours ago, SecretPro said: What a home secretary should be: Very well said. Impressed with Cooper these days. She should be leader imo, much more electable than Starmer. Speaks better, more passion, more experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Fox Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 (edited) On 14/06/2022 at 20:28, Daggers said: Pigs culled because of a shortage of meat processors. Fields left fallow or crops trashed because of the absence of farm workers. Flights cancelled because no one wants their shit underpaid job back after being sacked… We have space and jobs. The only sad thing is that we also have world-leading bigots and idiots who hate forinaz. I also find it bewildering how there seems to be this feeling that everyone wants to come here and we're overrun with refuges. It's simply not true.... Edited 16 June 2022 by Brizzle Fox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 1 hour ago, Brizzle Fox said: I also find it bewildering how there seems to be this feeling that everyone wants to come here and we're overrun with refuges. It's simply not true.... I don't even want to be here... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post urban.spaceman Posted 16 June 2022 Popular Post Share Posted 16 June 2022 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 15 hours ago, weller54 said: Bozo's ethics adviser just resigned!!... 😂😂😂.. what ethics? ..the c**t hasn't got any to be advised on! 14 hours ago, Parafox said: Apparently unable to continue in the role after the PM's huge gaffes around partygate and other issues. Lord Geidt resigns as Boris Johnson's ethics adviser (telegraph.co.uk) At least Lord Geidt seems to have ethics and a conscience. To lose one ethics adviser could be described as careless ……… how you lose two within three years ……. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 How long until the new ethics advisor is announced as Stanley Johnson? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 Isn’t “Boris Johnson’s ethics adviser” basically the equivalent of being “Duncan Goodhew’s barber”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weller54 Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 28 minutes ago, Dunge said: Isn’t “Boris Johnson’s ethics adviser” basically the equivalent of being “Duncan Goodhew’s barber”? Or Priti Patel's dietician. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: Very well said. Impressed with Cooper these days. She should be leader imo, much more electable than Starmer. Speaks better, more passion, more experience. Just throwing the word electable around gratuitously now aren't you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxile5 Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 The ethics advisor's resignation letter in full : https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jun/16/boris-johnson-lord-geidt-resignation-conservatives-dominic-raab-partygate-uk-politics-latest Hahah - asked to deliberately breach the ministerial code. 'My mate Boris.' 'He'll sort 'em out' etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 5 hours ago, Brizzle Fox said: I also find it bewildering how there seems to be this feeling that everyone wants to come here and we're overrun with refuges. It's simply not true.... Has anyone said refugees are the issue? Economic migrants are the issue, and indeed for some parts of the country where a lot of EU migration happened, people remain concerned. Of course some people don't want anyone to come from anywhere, but that is not who this charade is aimed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Fox Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: How long until the new ethics advisor is announced as Stanley Johnson? Well he's a EU citizen now so can probably facilitate some advantageous tax arrangements for his salary.. Nah Bojo will I'd imagine appoint himself Or Nad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Posted 16 June 2022 Share Posted 16 June 2022 1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said: Has anyone said refugees are the issue? Economic migrants are the issue, and indeed for some parts of the country where a lot of EU migration happened, people remain concerned. Of course some people don't want anyone to come from anywhere, but that is not who this charade is aimed at. Quite right. This aimed at the boats full of young adult males coming from Albania. This problem takes resources away from genuine refugees in need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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