The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[fox_up_north]

While strikes and unions are important, I have to say it's not great optics when A level exams are still on, people are trying to travel to major events and you're arguing over £30-60k jobs. 

 

Striking is, increasingly, something of a luxury. There's plenty of people who don't even have the financial security to strike. Perhaps this could have been coordinated with a walk out from other sectors?

 

I know plenty of public sector workers (hospital, prisons and police) who have really taken against these rail strikes. 

[Diffco]

35 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

And it's not even a new thing. And look who was involved last time!

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2022/06/20/carriegate-the-whittingdale-scandal-and-press-cover-up/

 

I never heard about this, understandable to degree as it is pretty low level and easier to obscure back then. Not surprising though in this climate. What is another level is the Cabinet sleaze happening right in front of our eyes, in the open, involving our b**tard PM. Journalists are being actively instructed not to report, Editors are not speaking up?! Where does this head?!? 

[Bellend Sebastian]

16 minutes ago, Diffco said:

I never heard about this, understandable to degree as it is pretty low level and easier to obscure back then. Not surprising though in this climate. What is another level is the Cabinet sleaze happening right in front of our eyes, in the open, involving our b**tard PM. Journalists are being actively instructed not to report, Editors are not speaking up?! Where does this head?!? 

To be honest I can't remember much about the Whittingdale thing from the time, but what I can remember was wondering how did we get from the Leveson inquiry recommendations being agreed by all the major parties and pretty much signed up to the whole thing being chucked in the bin and Leveson part 2 being cancelled

[Wymsey]

To some extent, the ones striking are likely to have a decent pay/reward package in what they do already; and that one could rightly think that they're becoming greedy for more with these actions.

Edited 20 June 2022 by Wymsey

[Strokes]

She has a real point.

How can anyone who is working class or a taxpayer be against their rights to strike and who are we to comment on salary’s of ticket staff, drivers and cleaners when those at the top are taking such vast amounts? 
 

 

[Heathrow fox]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

To some extent, the ones striking are likely to have a decent pay/reward package in what they do already; and that one could rightly think that they're becoming greedy for more with these actions.

Straight out of the Daily Mail’s letter’s page this one.So trying to maintain an average wage make’s you greedy now does it?

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

...I have to say it's not great optics when A level exams are still on, people are trying to travel to major events and...

When would you say is an acceptable time of year to strike?

 

[Heathrow fox]

3 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

While strikes and unions are important, I have to say it's not great optics when A level exams are still on, people are trying to travel to major events and you're arguing over £30-60k jobs. 

 

Striking is, increasingly, something of a luxury. There's plenty of people who don't even have the financial security to strike. Perhaps this could have been coordinated with a walk out from other sectors?

 

I know plenty of public sector workers (hospital, prisons and police) who have really taken against these rail strikes. 

You do get the general jist of going on strike?Anyway enough of this £30000/£60000 wage,why are they moaning.I’ve got a broken leg therefore everyone has to have a broken leg.Let’s just hold hands and race to the bottom together.

[Daggers]

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

36 minutes ago, Daggers said:

When would you say is an acceptable time of year to strike?

 

Christmas Day?

[Silebyfox_89]

8 hours ago, Lionator said:

Power to all of the railway workers striking tomorrow. Yes it’s inconvenient but so is not being paid enough, having poor employee rights and leaving you having to scrape to live. Frankly I don’t know why more of us aren’t out on the streets, protesting and striking with the stinking mess in government currently. 

Have you seen how much of them are being paid? Check the median salary table, the majority are way above the average wage.

 

This is partly the reason why rail travel in this country is disgustingly expensive.

 

I'm all for striking for the right reasons especially this tory government but I don't support the rail strike.

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

11 minutes ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Have you seen how much of them are being paid? Check the median salary table, the majority are way above the average wage.

 

This is partly the reason why rail travel in this country is disgustingly expensive.

 

I'm all for striking for the right reasons especially this tory government but I don't support the rail strike.

 

I’ve just finished a night shift (and started my strike day) so I’ll try to keep it relatively short and sweet. Don’t listen to the media telling you it’s all about a payrise, we’re fighting to protect the safety of the job which is already almost stretched to the limit, eventually we’re going to have another Clapham Common. 
 

They’re coming for our T&Cs, they’re coming for our pensions and they’ve already discussed about ‘fire and rehire’. Look at what happened at British Gas and P&O. We’re fighting to protect this. 
 

Ignore the media gulf about the train drivers, I think 4% of them are in the RMT. 

 

We had lads earning 23k a year, working 9 weekends in 13, working 6 months of nightshifts without any dayshifts, who have to sign off on equipment to say it’s fit for purpose etc. Anything that goes wrong and it’ll be them in court explaining why people have died. 
 

We’ve trained for years to do the job, we’ll obviously fight to keep it as good as possible. We haven’t had a payrise since January 2020, and until yesterday not one single solid offer was made of a payrise, which was a laughable 2%. If we wanted 3% that comes with us giving up certain parts of our T&Cs. A strike is the last thing 90% of us wanted, we’re losing pay, we’re being hounded by the media, the public are turning against us, but unless we did so we’d have just carried on like this for another 18 months, they had no intention of giving us anything. 
 

I’m realistic that costs need to be saved, but we’re a workforce where something like 55% is going to be hitting retirement age in the next 10 years, skill gaps are being created, the training is lacking, the experience is dwindling. There are many layers to this ‘battle’ we’re having, I do fear it’ll go on for a while and I fear this is what the Government wants, they want unions crushed. 

[adam]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I’ve just finished a night shift (and started my strike day) so I’ll try to keep it relatively short and sweet. Don’t listen to the media telling you it’s all about a payrise, we’re fighting to protect the safety of the job which is already almost stretched to the limit, eventually we’re going to have another Clapham Common. 
 

They’re coming for our T&Cs, they’re coming for our pensions and they’ve already discussed about ‘fire and rehire’. Look at what happened at British Gas and P&O. We’re fighting to protect this. 
 

Ignore the media gulf about the train drivers, I think 4% of them are in the RMT. 

 

We had lads earning 23k a year, working 9 weekends in 13, working 6 months of nightshifts without any dayshifts, who have to sign off on equipment to say it’s fit for purpose etc. Anything that goes wrong and it’ll be them in court explaining why people have died. 
 

We’ve trained for years to do the job, we’ll obviously fight to keep it as good as possible. We haven’t had a payrise since January 2020, and until yesterday not one single solid offer was made of a payrise, which was a laughable 2%. If we wanted 3% that comes with us giving up certain parts of our T&Cs. A strike is the last thing 90% of us wanted, we’re losing pay, we’re being hounded by the media, the public are turning against us, but unless we did so we’d have just carried on like this for another 18 months, they had no intention of giving us anything. 
 

I’m realistic that costs need to be saved, but we’re a workforce where something like 55% is going to be hitting retirement age in the next 10 years, skill gaps are being created, the training is lacking, the experience is dwindling. There are many layers to this ‘battle’ we’re having, I do fear it’ll go on for a while and I fear this is what the Government wants, they want unions crushed. 

Great Post 👏 👏 👏 

[fox_up_north]

The above post is the first I've been able to find about this. I googled, genuinely, to find out the reason and asked 2 people who work on trains about what they're striking over. Everything and all the comments from that head of the union were about pay - nothing I could find was about safety.

 

That's all been poorly communicated by the union. Even that bloke on the telly this morning made comments about a pay rise of 7% and there wasn't a mention of safety or job cuts. 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Have you seen how much of them are being paid? Check the median salary table, the majority are way above the average wage.

 

This is partly the reason why rail travel in this country is disgustingly expensive.

 

I'm all for striking for the right reasons especially this tory government but I don't support the rail strike.

 

 

This.
 

Isn’t.

 

About.

 

Train.

 

Drivers.

 

And.

 

Their.

 

Salaries.

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, Silebyfox_89 said:

Have you seen how much of them are being paid? Check the median salary table, the majority are way above the average wage.

 

This is partly the reason why rail travel in this country is disgustingly expensive.

 

I'm all for striking for the right reasons especially this tory government but I don't support the rail strike.

 

 

Yes and your salary could be higher too if you unionised. How do you not put two and two together and see that? 

 

Rail travel isn't prohibitively expensive because some of their staff have higher pay, its prohibitively expensive because the CEOs, share holders, fuel suppliers and whoever else involved in the process insist on making millions and billions every year in profit. 

 

How is that still not sinking in for you. 

 

You dislike unions because you've been told to dislike unions for the best part of a hundred years by million and billionaires who paid a hell of a lot of money to buy newspapers and later TV stations for the specific reason of convincing the working class not to unionise.

 

Collective bargaining will always, always, always be good for us as the work force. Don't get angry or jealous about it, get inspired. We're living in the era of THE worst wealth disparity that capitalism has ever produced and its only a matter of time before it becomes unsustainable, if it isn't already. 

 

Even if you believe captialism is the correct model we should be living under, you still have to surely accept that corporation have to be kept in check somehow. When governments can be bought and paid off, the best way to balance out the other end of the scale and make sure the Musks, Bezos and Co of this world don't entirely take the piss is for workers and the bottom of the rung band together to protect themselves and balance out the system. 

 

Edited 21 June 2022 by Finnegan

[Footballwipe]

I'm not sure whether to be impressed by the gall, angry or simply indifferent that the government of 12 (TWELVE) years is trying to pin these strikes on the opposition.

 

They simply refuse to take absolutely any responsibility (oh sorry, except when they're finally exposed to be liars and even then, move along don't worry) for anything. 12 years, and trying to blame the opposition.

 

It'd be hilarious if there weren't so many sheep falling for it. Incredible. BLAME LABOUR

[surrifox]

The rail unions want the taxpayer to fund massive infrastructure projects that could not be paid for by private investment (Crossrail, HS2) and their declared aim is to renationalise the network ( presumably hoping that the people that remember how crap that was and how poor the railways were run are a dwindling minority). This keeps the railways front and centre and is an investment by taxpayers in their industry and future.

The railways in Scotland are back in public ownership and the strikes there are the worst in the country. 

Point being this is a massive F*** you to the people who rely on the railways to get around to their places of work and without whom the railways would employ far fewer staff. So the argument that this is some crusade against income inequality at the top  is a somewhat strained one.

Edited 21 June 2022 by surrifox

[Footballwipe]

39 minutes ago, surrifox said:

The rail unions want the taxpayer to fund massive infrastructure projects that could not be paid for by private investment (Crossrail, HS2) and their declared aim is to renationalise the network ( presumably hoping that the people that remember how crap that was and how poor the railways were run are a dwindling minority). This keeps the railways front and centre and is an investment by taxpayers in their industry and future.

The railways in Scotland are back in public ownership and the strikes there are the worst in the country. 

Point being this is a massive F*** you to the people who rely on the railways to get around to their places of work and without whom the railways would employ far fewer staff. So the argument that this is some crusade against income inequality at the top  is a somewhat strained one.

So, you just completely disregarded everything @Leicester_Loyalsaid, eh.

 

Interesting. Keep that tactic up Tory boy. One day your fantasies may come true.

[Daggers]

39 minutes ago, surrifox said:

... ( presumably hoping that the people that remember how crap that was and how poor the railways were run are a dwindling minority)...

... this is a massive F*** you to the people who rely on the railways to get around...

You know what remember about how poor the railways were? You could always get a seat and the tickets were affordable.

 

Roundtrip to Manchester for a meeting is going to cost me over £150. That's insane. It's pretty much the same as what the point of the trip is going to earn me - and so I'll drive. A ridiculous state of affairs.

 

Just because there were bad aspects to state ownership in the 70s doesn't mean the country can't learn from them, the one's it is still making, and the successes of coherent mass transport policies across Europe.

[Daggers]

 

 

[Strokes]

51 minutes ago, surrifox said:

The rail unions want the taxpayer to fund massive infrastructure projects that could not be paid for by private investment (Crossrail, HS2) and their declared aim is to renationalise the network ( presumably hoping that the people that remember how crap that was and how poor the railways were run are a dwindling minority). This keeps the railways front and centre and is an investment by taxpayers in their industry and future.

The railways in Scotland are back in public ownership and the strikes there are the worst in the country. 

Point being this is a massive F*** you to the people who rely on the railways to get around to their places of work and without whom the railways would employ far fewer staff. So the argument that this is some crusade against income inequality at the top  is a somewhat strained one.

Is this parody?

People are fighting for pay and conditions and you only care about yourself?

[urban.spaceman]

It's literally Tory Britain you dopey ****ing ****.

 

 

 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

It's literally Tory Britain you dopey ****ing ****.

 

 

 

Came in to post this too.

 

What an absolute melon. 

[Daggers]

19 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

It's literally Tory Britain you dopey ****ing ****.