The I cant believe it’s not politics thread.

[RoboFox]

47 minutes ago, LVocey said:

Does anybody know what time we can expect the by-election results to be announced?

Reckon between 3-6am tomorrow morning. 

[Finnegan]

15 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I love Mick Lynch.

 

 

I've deleted Facebook. Is that real?

[urban.spaceman]

7 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've deleted Facebook. Is that real?

Sadly looks like I've been hoodwinked  

 

[weller54]

2 hours ago, Dunge said:

On the Tories, what we’re seeing at the moment doesn’t resemble a Tory party that I’d want to vote for. The lack of honour, the lack of integrity, the lack of any discernible plan, the Republican-esque focus on culture wars. They have had two really unfortunate situations to deal with in Covid and Ukraine, both of which have contributed a lot to current problems, but there are so few signs of competence out there, plus the increasingly erratic behaviour of the so-called Tory press, plus the fact that Labour have a moderate and electable leader - I can’t see why they should get my support right now.

 

Which I don’t see as a good thing. The Conservative party should stand for something after all - economic prudence, a society of achievement and ambition, personal responsibility and family values. It’s perfectly clear by now that all Boris stands for is himself, and the awful thing is the sheer number of Tory MPs who have joined him in that. I’m not writing the Conservatives off for the future, but they need a clearout, and that won’t happen until they lose a general election badly. If they keep on moving toward the Republicans, I can’t see them ever getting my vote back.

 

As for Brexit, I voted Brexit, still back Brexit and would vote for it again. I can’t say I’m happy about how it’s going, but I fully expected a period of turbulence. I still think breaking from the EU is a good thing on balance in the longer term, and would only have got harder the longer it went on.

 

I prefer not to engage in arguments about it anymore though. I’ve had enough misery on that front to last a lifetime. The arguments always end up going around in circles and have ended up with people I like and love getting angry at me for not backing down. It’s possible my health suffered from it. So aside from very occasional bits like this I try to avoid disappearing down that rabbit hole anymore.

 

Of course, it doesn’t help matters when you get people like Jacob Rees-Mogg scratching around for “benefits of Brexit”, only managing to display in the process that he hasn’t got any clue what he was campaigning for in the first place. To me, Brexit was - and remains - an opportunity for us to define ourselves, to have Brand Britain, one of independent scientific and technological excellence, one of military and diplomatic shrewdness, of being able to respond quickly and flexibly to world events, of being the leader in the global fight against climate change, of believing that Britain and British values are good for the world and worth promoting. Instead we have JRM bringing back imperial measurements.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me if we ended up back in the EU, given that nobody at the top table has any demonstrable vision for what Brexit Britain. It’s almost like they’re destroying the idea through their own incompetence. However, I can’t imagine the EU would let us back in without significant demands, including joining the Euro. So that argument feels like it’s hiding around the corner in a few years’ time, ready to blow up on society once again. I expect I’ll just shake my head at it sadly and try not to offer an opinion.

Excellent post!..

Apart from you standing by the horrors of Brexit!!😎

[weller54]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

No no regrets, no we should never rejoin. The UK economy is outperforming the Eurozone last year and this year on WTO growth figures.

The handling of Brexit has been crap no doubt, but I suppose it was never going to be easy with so many on both sides of the channel against it.

There is no point shouting about it, lots of examples of poor implementation for people to point out so it’s a lose lose situation.

I would point out that the UK has remained important both economically and politically in Europe despite the doomsayers believing Europe = the EU and leaving would make us irrelevant.

Let's see how the UK economy fares in the next few years shall we!!

[HighPeakFox]

There is a type of person that simply cannot admit they made a terrible mistake. Unfortunately there are quite a lot of people like that. 

[Heathrow fox]

25 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

There is a type of person that simply cannot admit they made a terrible mistake. Unfortunately there are quite a lot of people like that. 

People like Mick Lynch?

[BenTheFox]

On 22/06/2022 at 13:50, kingkisnorbo said:

Why do tory’s fetishise the war and everything to do with it so much? 

Because it panders to a certain type of voter

[Dunge]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

There is a type of person that simply cannot admit they made a terrible mistake. Unfortunately there are quite a lot of people like that. 

On a slight tangent, but there is one thing I’ve learned from Brexit:

 

I remember a phrase from my childhood: Never talk about religion or politics. Perhaps I’m centrist by nature, or perhaps that’s just the way I was brought up, but I never really understood that phrase. Either one was an opportunity to have an interesting discussion with someone, to put your view and listen to theirs in response. Brexit felt like it changed that. You couldn’t discuss it anymore, such was the vitriol. You couldn’t even say you understood the opposing point of view. To many people, you had to be either for or against, black or white, compadre or traitor. I remember an advert back in the 2000s where it was taking the P out of someone saying “I don’t do politics”. I find myself wishing for those days back now.

 

So if there’s anything I regret about it, it’s ultimately having - or at least vocalising - an opinion. (I never campaigned either way.) I think being in the social media age has an impact as well, but it feels like the terrible mistake I made wasn’t considering and deciding a vote, but instead telling anyone about it or engaging in debate. Ironically it appears to be a mistake I continue to make even to this day. I doubt I’ll ever learn now.

[Free Falling Foxes]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

I love Mick Lynch.

 

That's very hood, sorry, meant good.

[Soar Fox]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

No no regrets, no we should never rejoin. The UK economy is outperforming the Eurozone last year and this year on WTO growth figures.

The handling of Brexit has been crap no doubt, but I suppose it was never going to be easy with so many on both sides of the channel against it.

There is no point shouting about it, lots of examples of poor implementation for people to point out so it’s a lose lose situation.

I would point out that the UK has remained important both economically and politically in Europe despite the doomsayers believing Europe = the EU and leaving would make us irrelevant.

You emigrated to Australia about 18 months ago didn’t you? 

[Fazzer 7]

Have to say, I’m loving the way Mick Lynch is owning the MSM he’s made absolute mugs out of some of them. This is what we want, more people like him who’ll challenge and refute their agenda. Pity there weren’t more like this fella during covid. 

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

… it feels like the terrible mistake I made wasn’t considering and deciding a vote, but instead telling anyone about it or engaging in debate. Ironically it appears to be a mistake I continue to make even to this day. I doubt I’ll ever learn now.

Maybe because I’ve yet to see an argument for Brexit that hasn’t been soundly debunked.

 

Given that we are still to see one single Brexit benefit, some might say that to continue to stand behind such a failed, flawed proposition is (at best) a feat of self-delusion and (at worst) an act of toxic destruction.

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

Have to say, I’m loving the way Mick Lynch is owning the MSM he’s made absolute mugs out of some of them. This is what we want, more people like him who’ll challenge and refute their agenda. Pity there weren’t more like this fella during covid. 

I'm going to be honest...when it comes to acts of nature, spontaneous and difficult-to-control acts of nature at that, it tends to be it, not the any human agency, that does the owning as we humans bicker among ourselves thinking it's all a conspiracy generated by other humans - as if we have the most power on this lump of rock, water and gas.

 

Lynch is doing a damn good job though

[ealingfox]

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

No no regrets, no we should never rejoin. The UK economy is outperforming the Eurozone last year and this year on WTO growth figures.

The handling of Brexit has been crap no doubt, but I suppose it was never going to be easy with so many on both sides of the channel against it.

There is no point shouting about it, lots of examples of poor implementation for people to point out so it’s a lose lose situation.

I would point out that the UK has remained important both economically and politically in Europe despite the doomsayers believing Europe = the EU and leaving would make us irrelevant.

 

Could you post that data please, out of interest?

[Fazzer 7]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

I'm going to be honest...when it comes to acts of nature, spontaneous and difficult-to-control acts of nature at that, it tends to be it, not the any human agency, that does the owning as we humans bicker among ourselves thinking it's all a conspiracy generated by other humans - as if we have the most power on this lump of rock, water and gas.

 

Lynch is doing a damn good job though

But the MSM definitely had an agenda of wanting harder longer lockdowns more restrictions etc etc. I don’t ever recall them wanting less, unlike some of the lesser known media outlets. 

[Voll Blau]

19 minutes ago, Fazzer 7 said:

But the MSM definitely had an agenda of wanting harder longer lockdowns more restrictions etc etc. I don’t ever recall them wanting less, unlike some of the lesser known media outlets. 

Go on then, share some evidence of that "agenda" please...

[The Horse's Mouth]

It's just depressing I've seen more opposition from Mick Lynch to Tory rule than Starmer who hasn't even endorsed him, we really are ****ed as a country get Liz in charge 

[zorro en españa]

8 hours ago, TiffToff88 said:

One fantastic thing that's come from all of this is that there seems to be a distinct lack of Pro-Tory comments in this thread now. I guess they've finally become totally indefensible

It is not fantastic though really, is it?  I’ve never been really aligned to one party so I don’t really get too het up about the party politics bit.  Counter argument/ discussion is very much to be applauded and sought.
 

What I dislike most of all is people having empathy for the leader of HMG with what he has done, is doing and will continue to do until his own party kick him out ….. or the electorate.  So when so many still love him, where are they?  Come on, do tell - what makes Johnson so special?

[zorro en españa]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

No no regrets, no we should never rejoin. The UK economy is outperforming the Eurozone last year and this year on WTO growth figures.

Like Ealing Fox I, too, am interested where you are sourcing your data.

 

Hopefully not to pi** too many people off the “sovereign” Govt of Spain yesterday halved VAT on domestic electricity from 10% to 5% as one of a range of items to help people; this includes 20% per litre off petrol prices initially until the end of June but now extended to the end of September.  Sorry!

[Fazzer 7]

Evidence? Do you not remember the questions at those press conferences, they were always inferring the lockdowns and restrictions should have been introduced sooner etc. You may disagree, that's fine, but it's what I recall and that's the only 'evidence' you're getting. Sorry.  

 

 

[BenTheFox]

The line that I keep hearing from Tory MPs is "at a time when we are trying to encourage as many people to use the railways as possible". Really? What incentives do people have to use the trains. There certainly isn't a financial one. The cost of rail travel in this country is an absolute disgrace and has been for years. 

[Head Honcho]

This blame Brexit nonsense is ridiculous.

 

Someone once said

 

"People Are Entitled To Their Own Opinions But Not To Their Own Facts"

 

Here's the facts!

 

Current UK v EU inflation rates.

 

UK inflation 9.1% EU inflation 8.8% (May 2022)

 

Thirteen EU countries have a higher rate than us and thirteen have rates lower.

 

Only France and Malta have rates lower than 6% these two figures reduce the EU average significantly without them the average EU rate would be 9.4%.

 

On the flip side and with fair play in mind. Four EU countries have rates above 15%. Remove these figures and the EU average would be 7.1% 

 

Seven EU countries have rates above 12% twelve above 10%.

 

Inflation is driven by capitalism. What feeds capitalism...

 

Three simple things we could all do to reduce inflation. Stop buying shite (cheap tack) you don't need (especially if it's from China) Reduce the number of subscriptions you have!  Do you need three or four streaming channels or that top of the range £60 a month phone contract  and finally, learn to cook, stop buying branded goods. A staple diet doesn't come in a tin or a box.

 

Each year we spend £152,000,000,000 on groceries, £3,000,000,000 a week, £500,000,000 a day. 

 

 

 

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I'm going to be honest...when it comes to acts of nature, spontaneous and difficult-to-control acts of nature at that, it tends to be it, not the any human agency, that does the owning as we humans bicker among ourselves thinking it's all a conspiracy generated by other humans - as if we have the most power on this lump of rock, water and gas.

 

Lynch is doing a damn good job though

 

[CosbehFox]

Checkmate on that one