Strokes Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 1 minute ago, bovril said: I know even less about gyms than about European politics Both are really difficult to get out of, once signed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 2 minutes ago, Strokes said: Both are really difficult to get out of, once signed up. And in both you can't say you're going to stop paying membership and then demand to keep using all the facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 18 minutes ago, Charl91 said: And in both you can't say you're going to stop paying membership and then demand to keep using all the facilities. You can but it’s unlikely to yield positive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 Howard Cox: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 Also Howard Cox: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 1 hour ago, Daggers said: Also Howard Cox: These only one way to protest fuel prices and that's for every motorist to boycott one of the big companies. e.g. B.P., Shell. They need to be forced to drop prices by hitting sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 26 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said: These only one way to protest fuel prices and that's for every motorist to boycott one of the big companies. e.g. B.P., Shell. They need to be forced to drop prices by hitting sales. The problem is we are stuck in a game if who blinks first between the Government and the Oil companies. They are rising prices so fast and are expecting the political pressure to mount and fuel duty gets cut whilst they continue to rake in record profits. I would understand if the Government took a principled stance but unfortunately they dont have principles or a plan. Instead of legislating for controlled prices in line with supply costs they’ll just panic and cut fuel duty when it becomes untenable for them to not do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 2 hours ago, Dames said: The problem is we are stuck in a game if who blinks first between the Government and the Oil companies. They are rising prices so fast and are expecting the political pressure to mount and fuel duty gets cut whilst they continue to rake in record profits. I would understand if the Government took a principled stance but unfortunately they dont have principles or a plan. Instead of legislating for controlled prices in line with supply costs they’ll just panic and cut fuel duty when it becomes untenable for them to not do anything. Oil prices a have risen because of the market - it’s supply and demand on a global level. the issue with our govt is that they are earning pretty much 30p/litre more than a year ago. They could afford to cut the fuel duty by 30p and not be worse off. But they would argue that they lost a lot of this income during the lockdowns when people weren’t travelling. cutting fuel duty would have a negative effect on the inflation rate too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 4 July 2022 Author Share Posted 4 July 2022 https://t.co/VFeQFTPelp the government really think this is going to win them votes when their voter base will be dying in their droves this winter freezing to death in their houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 1 hour ago, st albans fox said: Oil prices a have risen because of the market - it’s supply and demand on a global level. the issue with our govt is that they are earning pretty much 30p/litre more than a year ago. They could afford to cut the fuel duty by 30p and not be worse off. But they would argue that they lost a lot of this income during the lockdowns when people weren’t travelling. cutting fuel duty would have a negative effect on the inflation rate too. Yes but the costs far out strip the rises. The government and the companies are raking in what they believe they are entitled too due to covid. Its why there seems to be ‘record breaking profits’ everywhere. If it isnt dealt with soon it will become the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dames Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 22 minutes ago, Lionator said: https://t.co/VFeQFTPelp the government really think this is going to win them votes when their voter base will be dying in their droves this winter freezing to death in their houses. There is no hope for the older generations, voting Tory is so ingrained in them they wouldn’t be able to stop themselves. A Conservative Leader could announce a cull on everyone over the age of 60 and they would still get 60% or more of the vote share for that demographic. Generation Bootlick will be servile to the very end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 4 July 2022 Share Posted 4 July 2022 10 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I just looked into this online as it was the first I'd heard of it....particularly as it misleadingly associates Corbyn's supposed need for a legal fund with his allegedly "shameful" treatment by Starmer & allies in the Labour Party. As I thought, neither Starmer nor the Labour Party is suing Corbyn for anything. He's just had the party whip removed for openly challenging the findings of its anti-semitism investigation. It seems the legal fund was established a couple of years ago - and most of the funds obtained back then. It was meant to fund the defence of a libel case due to be brought by a Panorama journalist, alleging Corbyn had libeled his professional integrity. However, that case was settled out of court when the Labour Party made a large compensation payment to the journalist. The large sum collected has now reportedly been handed to Corbyn, who is looking after it in a dedicated bank account. But the fund organisers now want to use the funds collected for a different case, the one brought by a blogger/campaigner, again alleging libel by Corbyn about his behaviour at a meeting after he'd circulated the recording of Corbyn commenting that "Zionists" had "no sense of English irony". Corbyn has lost the initial appeal so it's now due to go to High Court. Not sure what Mr. Tweedale is so "proud" about funding....and it seems to have sod all to do with fighting Starmer or Labour, as he implies. Corbyn's response to losing the 2019 election summed up his entire shitshow as LOTO as well as his most obsessed followers. "Well we won the argument". All they care about is being right, rather than actually being effective. They'll back him to the hilt because they can't possibly admit their mistake. Everyone's wrong, they were right. Even to the point of trying to sabotage Labour and Starmer now out of spite - the same thing they were accusing everyone who wasn't in their cult of doing during Corbyn's time. Childish student politics. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 11 hours ago, st albans fox said: Oil prices a have risen because of the market - it’s supply and demand on a global level. the issue with our govt is that they are earning pretty much 30p/litre more than a year ago. They could afford to cut the fuel duty by 30p and not be worse off. But they would argue that they lost a lot of this income during the lockdowns when people weren’t travelling. cutting fuel duty would have a negative effect on the inflation rate too. At their highest, in 2008, brent oil was $133 and petrol was £1.03, at the end of june it was $115, Petrol is £1.96. It's not a case of supply and demand, it's a case of you pay what we demand. Also there is no competition between the oil companies, they're all in with each other and it's become a cartel with the government rubbing their hands at the amount of duty they're collecting, an organisation, i might add, that is supposed to be their to protect the interests of the people who put them into power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_up_north Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 I think the way to do it is for people to car share, managers to allow WFH and encourage closer to home working. This affects everyone and Darren middle manager needs to realise that forcing people into the office just makes it worse. In theory, that should cool demand so that nurses, social workers, carers etc can all pay cheaper prices. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxes1988 Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 18 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: Even the Lib Dems don't support rejoining the EU in the short-term. They support rejoining the Single Market and have a long-term aspiration to rejoin the EU. Although Labour don't go that far in the short-term, their policy might not be so different in the long-term: in the short-term, they're backing a closer UK-EU relationship in various ways: improving N. Ireland trade problem, membership of scientific research bodies, rights for touring musicians etc. In the longer-term, the hope will be that voters see the benefits of a closer relationship with the EU and the disadvantages of a Hard Brexit. Depending on events and voters' opinions, it wouldn't surprise me if Labour is backing membership of the Single Market or even a full return to the EU by the election after next. Calling for the UK to rejoin the EU at the next election would be electoral suicide for Labour. Not only would it lose crucial votes in Red Wall marginals, it would also alienate people all round the country who simply didn't want the whole Brexit can of worms opened up again - including some Remainers. There's also the small matter of whether the EU would want all the hassle of us rejoining immediately, after years of nightmare Brexit negotiations - highly unlikely. It might feel good to call for us to rejoin the EU (I voted Remain myself and opposed the Tory choice of a Hard Brexit) - just as it felt good to Corbyn supporters to demand mass nationalisation and high public spending - but if the result of doing so is that we end up with yet another hideous Tory Govt, is the feeling of personal purity worth it? Compromise often achieves a lot more than purity.... If you're in a Con-Lab marginal constituency, a LD vote simply improves the chances for the Tories. Likewise, a Lab vote in a Tory-LD marginal. That's unfair but that's our electoral system - and realistically the best chance of electoral reform to eliminate that problem is for Labour to be the biggest party at Westminster, but reliant on Lib Dem support. This is me basically. I voted to remain but I really cant be bothered to go through it all again might as well get on with it at least for the next 10/20 years. Just felt like a Conservative internal fight that we all had to get involved in for some reason. I thought it was a bit of a distraction at the time as I didn't think things would change drastically one way or the other whether we remained or brexited. Found the extremes from both sides weird the way they would go over the top in their predictions. Immigration and 'taking back control' seemed to be the biggest issues and I couldn't and don't see how its changed since leaving to be honest. Immigration was always going to continue at near similar levels to what it was before as its what the country needs and we already had control of the vast vast vast majority of rules and laws anyway. We were never going to fall of an economic cliff and whilst the economy has been doing terrible I think its difficult to put that blame on leaving the EU. Covid but mainly the conservatives have to take blame for that. Think its unlikely with Starmer as leader Labour will pursue rejoining the EU. unless they go back further left again they'll just except being out or wait 20 years for a large proportion of brexiters to die off and re-joining will be a majority. I think people got so entrenched in remain /leave that theyll be less movement from one to the other in opinion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2607 Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said: At their highest, in 2008, brent oil was $133 and petrol was £1.03, at the end of june it was $115, Petrol is £1.96. It's not a case of supply and demand, it's a case of you pay what we demand. Also there is no competition between the oil companies, they're all in with each other and it's become a cartel with the government rubbing their hands at the amount of duty they're collecting, an organisation, i might add, that is supposed to be their to protect the interests of the people who put them into power. it's also a case of the price of the £ against the $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 I'm shocked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdiamond Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 12 hours ago, Dames said: There is no hope for the older generations, voting Tory is so ingrained in them they wouldn’t be able to stop themselves. A Conservative Leader could announce a cull on everyone over the age of 60 and they would still get 60% or more of the vote share for that demographic. Generation Bootlick will be servile to the very end. Just like to point out that this 66 year old has never voted Tory. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 10 minutes ago, Zear0 said: I'm shocked. Absolutely epic signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 17 minutes ago, Zear0 said: I'm shocked. There's also this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 22 minutes ago, foxes1988 said: This is me basically. I voted to remain but I really cant be bothered to go through it all again might as well get on with it at least for the next 10/20 years. Just felt like a Conservative internal fight that we all had to get involved in for some reason. I thought it was a bit of a distraction at the time as I didn't think things would change drastically one way or the other whether we remained or brexited. Found the extremes from both sides weird the way they would go over the top in their predictions. Immigration and 'taking back control' seemed to be the biggest issues and I couldn't and don't see how its changed since leaving to be honest. Immigration was always going to continue at near similar levels to what it was before as its what the country needs and we already had control of the vast vast vast majority of rules and laws anyway. We were never going to fall of an economic cliff and whilst the economy has been doing terrible I think its difficult to put that blame on leaving the EU. Covid but mainly the conservatives have to take blame for that. Think its unlikely with Starmer as leader Labour will pursue rejoining the EU. unless they go back further left again they'll just except being out or wait 20 years for a large proportion of brexiters to die off and re-joining will be a majority. I think people got so entrenched in remain /leave that theyll be less movement from one to the other in opinion You're probably right that 20 years is a likelier timescale for any reconsideration of leaving the EU, as neither voters nor the EU will want want to go through all that again any time soon. Depending on voter attitudes and wider events, maybe Labour might be advocating Single Market membership by the election after next....but a lot can happen in 7 years. While I agree with your comments about both sides exaggerating and the lack of an "economic cliff", it might be too early to say things won't change drastically, if gradually. Covid and Ukraine make it hard to assess the impact of Brexit. But there was an interesting graphic on TV the other night (Newsnight? C4 News?). It showed that throughout Covid UK trade had largely followed the same trajectory as the trade of other Western nations - dips during lockdowns etc. But more recently, trends in UK trade have diverged and our trade has recovered much less than similar nations, which analysts are putting down to Brexit.....that might not continue long-term or other factors might emerge, but is one to watch. Likewise, while similar nations are all afflicted with inflation due to Covid recovery, energy prices and Ukraine, UK inflation is trending higher - though that might be partly due to some other national govts doing more to alleviate the impacts of the cost of living crisis. I've not seen any immigration stats for ages - and am not sure how meaningful they'd be, as Covid and repeated lockdowns must have disrupted it massively over the last 2 years. We know that there are labour shortages, though many Brexiters would see that as a good thing - potentially more opportunities or better pay for British workers. I know experts are saying that a lot of that tight labour market overall is down to demographics and to a large number of older Brits (esp. self-employed) becoming economically active in the last 2 years. Labour shortages could also have different causes in different sectors: there's a lack of airport staff due to so many being laid off during Covid and finding other jobs, but fruit/veg growers having to leave crops in the field are blaming lack of migrant labour post-Brexit. All will become clearer over the next couple of years, I expect... Starmer's new "Make Brexit Work" slogan could be effective electorally. Not only in addressing voter suspicions and likely Tory claims that Labour would seek to reverse Brexit. It turns the issue back on the Tories, effectively asking voters "has this Tory Brexit made things better for you?". Johnson has raised all sorts of expectations of voters' lives being better post-Brexit, especially with "levelling up". Some Brexit voters will just be happy with the idea that "we've taken back control", but many might wonder why things have got worse economically, not better, since Brexit and despite all the levelling up and mass spending on hospitals and police that was promised. Of course, a lot of the problems are down to Covid, gas/oil prices, Ukraine etc. But some of it is down to poor management, inaction and chaos by the govt - plus the govt of the day tends to get blamed for problems on its watch (as Labour got blamed for the 2008 Financial Crash). Ironically, if the Hard Left ever did take control of Labour again, it might be LESS inclined to rejoin the EU or Single Market - most (not all) Hard Left politicians are Eurosceptics, unlike the more Europhile centrists and Soft Left. Starmer was/is a Remainer who is just recognising that battle is now lost for the foreseeable future, whereas Corbyn was a closet Eurosceptic, even if most of his fans weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 12 hours ago, Dames said: There is no hope for the older generations, voting Tory is so ingrained in them they wouldn’t be able to stop themselves. A Conservative Leader could announce a cull on everyone over the age of 60 and they would still get 60% or more of the vote share for that demographic. Generation Bootlick will be servile to the very end. 22 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said: Just like to point out that this 66 year old has never voted Tory. Yes, as someone who joins Generation Bootlick in a few weeks (if 60 is the threshold), I've never voted Tory in my life and hope I never will. I know there's some validity in your generalisation, Dames, and a bit of poetic licence, but it would be unfair of me to describe young people as Generation ArseSit just because 50% don't vote, whereas 80% of pensioners do. It would be good to know why older people become more reactionary, a long-term trend. The current generation of (mainly) Tory-voting geriatrics weren't always like that. Perhaps you'll join Generation Bootlick in a few decades? I mean, take a 74-year-old..... - Born 1948 - 1966 election: aged 18, mainly votes in a majority Labour Govt - 1967: aged 19, grows hair, smokes pot and enjoys the Summer of Love - 1970s: aged 22-32, again mainly votes in Labour Govts - 1980s: aged 32-42, switches to Thatcher - 1997: aged 49, mainly votes for Blair's New Labour - 2010-2022: Generation Bootlick ......what the fvck was that all about?!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboFox Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 There's such a constant stream of scandals that I'm starting to hope that they're engineering it all to distract us from something much more sinister. I'm struggling to fathom the sheer scale of the corruption. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 5 July 2022 Share Posted 5 July 2022 Things you love to see: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 5 July 2022 Author Share Posted 5 July 2022 13 minutes ago, RoboFox said: There's such a constant stream of scandals that I'm starting to hope that they're engineering it all to distract us from something much more sinister. I'm struggling to fathom the sheer scale of the corruption. Corruption would indicate that there’s some brains behind this. It’s just sheer incompetence designed to constantly cover his own back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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