Premier League 2022/23 Thread

[Sampson]

To me, being world class just means you’re in the same bracket as the very best in the world and there’s very little to choose between them.

 

So a world class striker should be roughly the same level as Lewandowski for example. You could probably say that about Benzema, Mbappe and Haaland for example. Someone like say Ciro Immobile though, while an extremely good player, I would not call at the same level and would not call world class.

 

Even though Tielemans was very good for us at his peak, he’s never been close to world class for me, as that suggests being at the same level of ability as De Bruyne, which Tielemans clearly has never been.

Edited 22 June 2022 by Sampson

[Tielemans63]

World class striker or not, Harry Kane seems like a top bloke. Can't knock this:

 

Harry Kane sponsors Leyton Orient shirts for third season - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61893795

 

 

[Dan LCFC]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

In Kane's defence though, he can't win major honours just on his own but he's played 3 finals for club and country and not scored once so you could argue when the chances do come to win silverware he has to step up. 

That's the difference between what he is now, a very good player, and a world class one.

 

Would Benzema have lost all of those finals? I doubt it. He was no good in any of the finals.

[Wymsey]

8 hours ago, StanSP said:

Wow

 

 

Sky Sports certainly aren't the market leaders anymore.

[marbles]

To me, a World Class player elevates those around him.  
Kane hasn’t done that.  The team plays exactly the same, if not better at times, without him in the lineup.

 

 

 

 

[Steve Earle]

11 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Kane is World Class. His numbers are unreal for a striker, especially a striker in a top flight. He had three consecutive seasons scoring 25+ ffs and that's no easy job, especially in a side that hasn't actually won anything.

 

Players aren't defined by trophies. Some of the greatest players ever have won next to nothing but some "average" players have won trophies because they've been lucky enough to be part of a great squad.

 

Haaland has won two Austrian league titles, fair play but not the greatest league in the World, but you'd still call him World Class.

Kane = Graeme Hick

[Phenom]

2 hours ago, marbles said:

To me, a World Class player elevates those around him.  
Kane hasn’t done that.  The team plays exactly the same, if not better at times, without him in the lineup.

 

 

 

 

You can’t be serious.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

11 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

There is a substantial difference between winning a World Cup once and winning nothing. Kane has won literally nothing in his career. It's mental. He is obviously exceptionally talented but there is something missing. This is beyond bad luck at this point.

That " something " is he's stuck with playing for spurs and that is his bad luck.

 

[foxes_rule1978]

5 hours ago, marbles said:

To me, a World Class player elevates those around him.  
Kane hasn’t done that.  The team plays exactly the same, if not better at times, without him in the lineup.

 

 

 

 

Better at times? not true, people keep saying this then I pull the stats up and it totally shows they are better with Kane and it isn’t even close. Kane also contributes I’m not just scoring goals but general play. He is world class, he didn’t have the best season last but that is one in years. 

Edited 23 June 2022 by foxes_rule1978

[marbles]

2 hours ago, Phenom said:

You can’t be serious.

Prove me wrong.

List all the titles Tottenham have won.

List all the players whose stats improved tremendously while playing alongside Kane.

 

These are what I consider World Class Players.  
 

Wayne Gretzky.  Took a mediocre LA Kings to the Stanley Cup finals.  Bernie Nichols had the best seasons of his career playing alongside Gretzky - scoring 70 goals in one season.  I won’t even mention what he did in Edmonton - or how NHL rules changed because of him.

 

Mark Messier.  Put the 1994 NY Rangers on his back in game 6 vs NJ in the Conference Finals.  Scoring 3 of the 4 goals.

 

Michael Jordan.  Joined a Bulls team that had been to the playoffs twice in 9 years.  Scotty Pippen became a household name because of him.

 

I just don’t consider a player who does not elevate the players around him to a championship level, as being World Class.  

 

Edited 23 June 2022 by marbles

[kingkisnorbo]

1 hour ago, marbles said:

Prove me wrong.

List all the titles Tottenham have won.

List all the players whose stats improved tremendously while playing alongside Kane.

 

These are what I consider World Class Players.  
 

Wayne Gretzky.  Took a mediocre LA Kings to the Stanley Cup finals.  Bernie Nichols had the best seasons of his career playing alongside Gretzky - scoring 70 goals in one season.  I won’t even mention what he did in Edmonton - or how NHL rules changed because of him.

 

Mark Messier.  Put the 1994 NY Rangers on his back in game 6 vs NJ in the Conference Finals.  Scoring 3 of the 4 goals.

 

Michael Jordan.  Joined a Bulls team that had been to the playoffs twice in 9 years.  Scotty Pippen became a household name because of him.

 

I just don’t consider a player who does not elevate the players around him to a championship level, as being World Class.  

 

His partnership with Son is the most prolific in the leagues history. Since his break out season,  they’ve been to a champions league final, a decent amount of top four finishes etc. The most relative ‘success’ the club have had since the early 90’s, even the Greaves era arguably. Been their top scorer in every season (all comps) since 14/15. 
 

I understand the trophies argument but I’d lose a bollock to have him at Leicester. He’s box office in my opinion. 

Edited 23 June 2022 by kingkisnorbo

[Craig]

Harry Kane is one of the best strikers in the world. He is world class. 

 

 

[baldeagle]

3 minutes ago, Craig said:

Harry Kane is one of the best strikers in the world. He is world class. 

 

 

He’s still a dick though 😂

[StanSP]

 

[Nalis]

6 hours ago, marbles said:

Prove me wrong.

List all the titles Tottenham have won.

List all the players whose stats improved tremendously while playing alongside Kane.

 

These are what I consider World Class Players.  
 

Wayne Gretzky.  Took a mediocre LA Kings to the Stanley Cup finals.  Bernie Nichols had the best seasons of his career playing alongside Gretzky - scoring 70 goals in one season.  I won’t even mention what he did in Edmonton - or how NHL rules changed because of him.

 

Mark Messier.  Put the 1994 NY Rangers on his back in game 6 vs NJ in the Conference Finals.  Scoring 3 of the 4 goals.

 

Michael Jordan.  Joined a Bulls team that had been to the playoffs twice in 9 years.  Scotty Pippen became a household name because of him.

 

I just don’t consider a player who does not elevate the players around him to a championship level, as being World Class.  

 

Really depends on the position of the player too. Its much more difficult for an out and out striker to carry a team as much as, say, a playmaker.

[fuchsntf]

4 hours ago, baldeagle said:

He’s still a dick though 😂

Ok..why...

[Dan LCFC]

7 hours ago, PAPA LAZAROU said:

That " something " is he's stuck with playing for spurs and that is his bad luck.

He didn't have to stay there. I'll call Kane world class when he steps up in a crunch game that wins a trophy. Until then he's below the likes of Benzema and Lewandowski for me.

 

I must stress I'm quite facetious about these kinds of terms. Like for me there can only be a certain number of world class players. Likewise when people say "legends" - can a club really have 30+ legends? To me that kind of term is reserved for probably 5 at most.

Edited 23 June 2022 by Dan LCFC

[Finnegan]

7 hours ago, marbles said:

Prove me wrong.

List all the titles Tottenham have won.

List all the players whose stats improved tremendously while playing alongside Kane.

 

These are what I consider World Class Players.  
 

Wayne Gretzky.  Took a mediocre LA Kings to the Stanley Cup finals.  Bernie Nichols had the best seasons of his career playing alongside Gretzky - scoring 70 goals in one season.  I won’t even mention what he did in Edmonton - or how NHL rules changed because of him.

 

Mark Messier.  Put the 1994 NY Rangers on his back in game 6 vs NJ in the Conference Finals.  Scoring 3 of the 4 goals.

 

Michael Jordan.  Joined a Bulls team that had been to the playoffs twice in 9 years.  Scotty Pippen became a household name because of him.

 

I just don’t consider a player who does not elevate the players around him to a championship level, as being World Class.  

 

 

To be fair, pal, in proper sports where more than 5 or 6 competent athletes, selected from a global player base, are playing each other at a given time, it's very rare that one man carries a team single handed to a "championship."

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

52 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

He didn't have to stay there. I'll call Kane world class when he steps up in a crunch game that wins a trophy. Until then he's below the likes of Benzema and Lewandowski for me.

 

I must stress I'm quite facetious about these kinds of terms. Like for me there can only be a certain number of world class players. Likewise when people say "legends" - can a club really have 30+ legends? To me that kind of term is reserved for probably 5 at most.

He did have to stay there. He was under contract at Spurs and no one would pay the price Spurs were asking. I'm sure he would have been off like a shot if he could have. but yes you are right about him not being world class though.

[marbles]

Guess it comes down to the fact that we all have different opinions on what makes a player "World Class"

It doesnt make sense to me to say, lots of goals = World Class.  That's too simplistic.  To be the best of the best, there has to be more. Much more.

 

Another way to look at it - if building a team, and you had every striker available in their prime, where would Kane fall? First pick, second pick, fifth pick?

[Unabomber]

Kane is a good prem striker as he has proven but he is not world class we can all agree on that. To be world class you need to play for the best and have actually won at least 1 proper trophy. Tbf to Kane he seems more bothered about personal success such as being top scorer etc. That’s his call so he can do what he wants.  

[RumbleFox]

9 hours ago, marbles said:

Prove me wrong.

List all the titles Tottenham have won.

List all the players whose stats improved tremendously while playing alongside Kane.

 

These are what I consider World Class Players.  
 

Wayne Gretzky.  Took a mediocre LA Kings to the Stanley Cup finals.  Bernie Nichols had the best seasons of his career playing alongside Gretzky - scoring 70 goals in one season.  I won’t even mention what he did in Edmonton - or how NHL rules changed because of him.

 

Mark Messier.  Put the 1994 NY Rangers on his back in game 6 vs NJ in the Conference Finals.  Scoring 3 of the 4 goals.

 

Michael Jordan.  Joined a Bulls team that had been to the playoffs twice in 9 years.  Scotty Pippen became a household name because of him.

 

I just don’t consider a player who does not elevate the players around him to a championship level, as being World Class.  

 

You sound a bit like good ol’ Kevin Keegan talking about Leonardo now. I hate Kane with a passion but he’s clearly world class. 

[marbles]

2 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

You sound a bit like good ol’ Kevin Keegan talking about Leonardo now. I hate Kane with a passion but he’s clearly world class. 

Sorry, I honestly don’t know what this means

 

If half the people question it, how can it be “clearly”?

[ealingfox]

9 hours ago, marbles said:

Prove me wrong.

List all the titles Tottenham have won.

List all the players whose stats improved tremendously while playing alongside Kane.

 

These are what I consider World Class Players.  
 

Wayne Gretzky.  Took a mediocre LA Kings to the Stanley Cup finals.  Bernie Nichols had the best seasons of his career playing alongside Gretzky - scoring 70 goals in one season.  I won’t even mention what he did in Edmonton - or how NHL rules changed because of him.

 

Mark Messier.  Put the 1994 NY Rangers on his back in game 6 vs NJ in the Conference Finals.  Scoring 3 of the 4 goals.

 

Michael Jordan.  Joined a Bulls team that had been to the playoffs twice in 9 years.  Scotty Pippen became a household name because of him.

 

I just don’t consider a player who does not elevate the players around him to a championship level, as being World Class.  

 

 

2 of your examples are widely acknowledged to be the greatest of all time in their respective sports. I don't think anybody else is comparing Kane to Gretzky or Jordan ffs . By your definition there's basically been a handful of world class players across all sports and all time.

[SkidsFox]

59 minutes ago, marbles said:

Guess it comes down to the fact that we all have different opinions on what makes a player "World Class"

It doesnt make sense to me to say, lots of goals = World Class.  That's too simplistic.  To be the best of the best, there has to be more. Much more.

 

Another way to look at it - if building a team, and you had every striker available in their prime, where would Kane fall? First pick, second pick, fifth pick?

If we limit to players still active in the game, would be fairly easy to name five above Kane. MBappe, Ronaldo, Messi, Lewandowski and Suarez. I think Kane would get into the top ten though, narrowly behind Jamie (!)