Premier League 2022/23 Thread

[whetstonefox]

Perhaps the forest ownership think they are partly to blame with so many new signings. Guess it settles things down for them, if they beat Villa on Monday gives them a bounce.

They will struggle to stay up but they must have decided he’s the man to bring them back up, though how many of those 22 players will they be looking to get rid of in the summer if they do go down and how hard is that going to be considering no one’s heard of most of them 

[RedSoxUK]

34 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Jokes aside, this is a bizarre move by Marinakis. Observations:

- Cooper has failed until now to utilise the 20+ new players he (?) brought in. 

- Even with the common excuses like "it's too difficult to create a proper working team with so many new arrivals", Cooper is clearly out of his depth. 

- If the players heads are not yet down, the dressing room will be lost soon. Good luck going to Championship with the same players and same manager that will probably be battered every week for the next 8 months. 

Marinakis is trying to buy time and please the Forest fanbase because he doesn't want them to turn against him like it's happening now at Olympiakos after another humiliation they had last night vs Qarabag at home. An overweight by at least 10kg Marcelo featured there and the Olympiakos fans are going rampage against Marinakis today. 

Forest fans are deluded. They have been emotionally attached to Cooper because he got them promoted. Guess what lads, football is business and about making the right decisions at the right time. Ask Ranieri. 

Hate to say it but It's actually very sensible. They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse. Remember he didn't just take then to the Play Offs and win, he did well with Swansea before, then at Forest took them from bottom of the Championship (4 points from 8 same as now,) to 80 points from the 46.

 

They dismantled us so easy in that season as well. Their fault lies with not keeping the players they had. And reinforcing because they had to. Obviously it's going to take time, it would be difficult anyway as we know.

 

The new contract is a vote of confidence in Cooper as the right man regardless of what happens. I really admire that. Go and check the "next manager" thread and you'll see lots of "Cooper". He's not failed there at all, this was absolutely expected. Long term stability always beats short term success in business, they're recognising that Cooper is the best man to bring them back up if they were to get relegated the same way Burnley often stuck with Dyche.

 

 

 

 

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, CloudFox said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it will have had a huge impact. Beale knows his stuff.

 

Not to be flippant (as I know you're not talking Beale down here), but I'd say sitting nicely in the Championship playoffs within your first 6 months of being a football manager is pretty damn impressive 😁.

I was being nice.

 

It will be interesting to see where he finishes this season. QPR recently have had a habit of starting well but obviously Beale is there now.

 

Great win at Sheffield United in the week.

[Super_horns]

17 minutes ago, RedSoxUK said:

Hate to say it but It's actually very sensible. They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse. Remember he didn't just take then to the Play Offs and win, he did well with Swansea before, then at Forest took them from bottom of the Championship (4 points from 8 same as now,) to 80 points from the 46.

 

They dismantled us so easy in that season as well. Their fault lies with not keeping the players they had. And reinforcing because they had to. Obviously it's going to take time, it would be difficult anyway as we know.

 

The new contract is a vote of confidence in Cooper as the right man regardless of what happens. I really admire that. Go and check the "next manager" thread and you'll see lots of "Cooper". He's not failed there at all, this was absolutely expected. Long term stability always beats short term success in business, they're recognising that Cooper is the best man to bring them back up if they were to get relegated the same way Burnley often stuck with Dyche.

 

 

 

 

Yes guess its a way of saying we are all responsible and it's not just down to the manager

 

Players themselves need to improve and get settled.

 

Still feel if Forest carry on losing badly or to teams around them he'll be in trouble though but if they show signs of improvement and having a consistent side then Cooper will stay;.

Edited 7 October 2022 by Super_horns

[Fear Of The Fox]

28 minutes ago, RedSoxUK said:

Hate to say it but It's actually very sensible. They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse. Remember he didn't just take then to the Play Offs and win, he did well with Swansea before, then at Forest took them from bottom of the Championship (4 points from 8 same as now,) to 80 points from the 46.

 

They dismantled us so easy in that season as well. Their fault lies with not keeping the players they had. And reinforcing because they had to. Obviously it's going to take time, it would be difficult anyway as we know.

 

The new contract is a vote of confidence in Cooper as the right man regardless of what happens. I really admire that. Go and check the "next manager" thread and you'll see lots of "Cooper". He's not failed there at all, this was absolutely expected. Long term stability always beats short term success in business, they're recognising that Cooper is the best man to bring them back up if they were to get relegated the same way Burnley often stuck with Dyche.

 

 

 

 

Ideas, coaching and style of play? Where exactly have you seen this in their PL games so far? The guy has made criminal tactical decisions in every single game of theirs. He's constantly playing players out of their natural position. Just take a look at the games they managed a win and a draw. 38 shots against in both games, West Ham hit the woodwork twice, all lines disjointed with players roaming around clueless like someone picked them from a pub in the morning and told them to play a PL game. 

It's one thing taking into account emotion and morals on top level football and another doing proper business to avoid being relegated. 

[Fox92]

9 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Ideas, coaching and style of play? Where exactly have you seen this in their PL games so far? The guy has made criminal tactical decisions in every single game of theirs. He's constantly playing players out of their natural position. Just take a look at the games they managed a win and a draw. 38 shots against in both games, West Ham hit the woodwork twice, all lines disjointed with players roaming around clueless like someone picked them from a pub in the morning and told them to play a PL game. 

It's one thing taking into account emotion and morals on top level football and another doing proper business to avoid being relegated. 

You've taken OP post out of context.

 

He said "They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse" and this is correct. He's not talking about this season only.

[CosbehFox]

The Cooper contract is a sane move. The thing is their owner isn’t sane 

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, ForestAreMagic said:

If we stay up great.  But the question that matters is ‘who will get us promoted next year’.

 

There is some PR about this I agree.  The owners would face mutiny if they’d sacked him. The fans saved his job.  Cooper deserves his chance after what he’s done for us. 

 

 If that makes us ‘deluded’, I’m happy to be deluded.

 

i’m surprised so many leicester fans have forgotten where we sat with pearson when we came up. i’ve never understood why a newly promoted manager doesn’t get the full season personally, it’s been earnt 

[Fear Of The Fox]

4 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

You've taken OP post out of context.

 

He said "They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse" and this is correct. He's not talking about this season only.

Oh you're right! My bad, really sorry I've misunderstood the wording. This is true. In a few words they accept they're down already and want Cooper to use his experience, tactics etc in Championship to get the team back up. Fair enough. This means any act of sack within this season is out of the question. 

[Fear Of The Fox]

4 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

i’m surprised so many leicester fans have forgotten where we sat with pearson when we came up. i’ve never understood why a newly promoted manager doesn’t get the full season personally, it’s been earnt 

It's not working like this. We tend to confuse our emotions with business. Pearson didn't sign 23 new players. Pearson didn't use a RM as CB. We know newly promoted teams will always struggle in PL. Their managers also. But you go up with a clear objective, stay up. I'm glad Cooper is staying there because I feel that an experienced manager like Dyche could turn things around with his tactics. 

[Super_horns]

22 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

Oh you're right! My bad, really sorry I've misunderstood the wording. This is true. In a few words they accept they're down already and want Cooper to use his experience, tactics etc in Championship to get the team back up. Fair enough. This means any act of sack within this season is out of the question. 

Surely they haven’t given up on survival already ?

 

Not with all these players they have brought in probably at some cost .

[ForestAreMagic]

1 hour ago, RedSoxUK said:

Hate to say it but It's actually very sensible. They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse. Remember he didn't just take then to the Play Offs and win, he did well with Swansea before, then at Forest took them from bottom of the Championship (4 points from 8 same as now,) to 80 points from the 46.

 

They dismantled us so easy in that season as well. Their fault lies with not keeping the players they had. And reinforcing because they had to. Obviously it's going to take time, it would be difficult anyway as we know.

 

The new contract is a vote of confidence in Cooper as the right man regardless of what happens. I really admire that. Go and check the "next manager" thread and you'll see lots of "Cooper". He's not failed there at all, this was absolutely expected. Long term stability always beats short term success in business, they're recognising that Cooper is the best man to bring them back up if they were to get relegated the same way Burnley often stuck with Dyche.

 

 

 

 

I agreed and no one’s pretending Cooper or the club have done everything right

 

we should have signed Zinckernagel and Garner.  We should have signed a second good CB alongside Niakhate.  We had a good, focused transfer window until the last couple of weeks when we started signing quantity rather than quality. 
 

Cooper himself needs to make the formation more defensive as you saw on Monday, and stop playing Lingard, MGW and Johnson all at once 

 

 

[BenTheFox]

It felt like Djed Spence was a very important player for Forest last season. I remember him giving Luke Thomas a pretty torrid time back in February. 

I must say I'm surprised that they've stuck with Cooper, but I don't think it's a bad move. He could still turn it around and he is as well-equipped as anyone to get them promoted should they go down. I would be amazed if he sanctioned all of those signings.

[Fox92]

12 minutes ago, ForestAreMagic said:

I agreed and no one’s pretending Cooper or the club have done everything right

 

we should have signed Zinckernagel and Garner.  We should have signed a second good CB alongside Niakhate.  We had a good, focused transfer window until the last couple of weeks when we started signing quantity rather than quality. 
 

Cooper himself needs to make the formation more defensive as you saw on Monday, and stop playing Lingard, MGW and Johnson all at once 

 

 

Johnson was still a livewire. Good control and dribbling. I'd still like him on the right of our attack but I think he'll end up at a bigger club.

[StanSP]

It's interesting it goes from potentially being sacked to getting a contract extension. Maybe it was just Cooper's agent playing them. 

 

I can't see it working out long term until 2025 but good to see owners have some faith as others are far too ruthless. 

[Fear Of The Fox]

18 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Surely they haven’t given up on survival already ?

 

Not with all these players they have brought in probably at some cost .

It's all or nothing for them in the next 2 games. 2 losses and they're done. They have Liverpool and Arsenal afterwards. 

[Super_horns]

52 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

It felt like Djed Spence was a very important player for Forest last season. I remember him giving Luke Thomas a pretty torrid time back in February. 

I must say I'm surprised that they've stuck with Cooper, but I don't think it's a bad move. He could still turn it around and he is as well-equipped as anyone to get them promoted should they go down. I would be amazed if he sanctioned all of those signings.

Maybe they will get him back on loan - not playing at Spurs .

[OntarioFox]

2 hours ago, RedSoxUK said:

Hate to say it but It's actually very sensible. They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse. Remember he didn't just take then to the Play Offs and win, he did well with Swansea before, then at Forest took them from bottom of the Championship (4 points from 8 same as now,) to 80 points from the 46.

 

They dismantled us so easy in that season as well. Their fault lies with not keeping the players they had. And reinforcing because they had to. Obviously it's going to take time, it would be difficult anyway as we know.

 

The new contract is a vote of confidence in Cooper as the right man regardless of what happens. I really admire that. Go and check the "next manager" thread and you'll see lots of "Cooper". He's not failed there at all, this was absolutely expected. Long term stability always beats short term success in business, they're recognising that Cooper is the best man to bring them back up if they were to get relegated the same way Burnley often stuck with Dyche.

 

 

 

 

What I find most laughable is the sizeable number of Forest fans explaining their state away with that 'we HAD TO get a new squad' line, conveniently skipping over the fact that they barely tried to keep some key names that would have cost them less than the journeymen they replaced them with.

 

You can't tell me you couldn't afford your star man from the previous season in Djed Spence at £12 million because Spurs wage package was out of your league, then go and pay Lingard £80k a week before add-ons to plod around in a midfield so unbalanced it ought to be diagnosed with Dyspraxia.

 

As for Zinckernagel, he's exactly the sort of steady presence they're crying out for now. He went to Olympiakos for peanuts and now can't get a game on-loan for Standard Liege. Factor in Spence rotting on Spurs' bench, and there's a sizeable part of the spine that brought Forest so much success wasting away because of the absolute madness that was their summer transfer policy.

 

For the record, I'd take both here in a heartbeat.

[coolhandfox]

Sacking Cooper would be punishment for overachieving, they looked destined for league 1 when they took over they had had 1 point from 7 games when Houghton was sacked.

 

Cooper went on to have 22 wins and 10 draws from 38 games, that's 76 points.

 

He simply overachieved in his first season 

 

[MPH]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

It's interesting it goes from potentially being sacked to getting a contract extension. Maybe it was just Cooper's agent playing them. 

 

I can't see it working out long term until 2025 but good to see owners have some faith as others are far too ruthless. 

 

it just doesn’t make sense
 

I wonder if this one had a relegation release clause and the previous one didn’t, is the only thing I can think of!

[Jobyfox]

5 hours ago, RedSoxUK said:

Hate to say it but It's actually very sensible. They've recognised that without his ideas, coaching and style of play they would be sitting near the bottom of the Championship, or worse. Remember he didn't just take then to the Play Offs and win, he did well with Swansea before, then at Forest took them from bottom of the Championship (4 points from 8 same as now,) to 80 points from the 46.

 

They dismantled us so easy in that season as well. Their fault lies with not keeping the players they had. And reinforcing because they had to. Obviously it's going to take time, it would be difficult anyway as we know.

 

The new contract is a vote of confidence in Cooper as the right man regardless of what happens. I really admire that. Go and check the "next manager" thread and you'll see lots of "Cooper". He's not failed there at all, this was absolutely expected. Long term stability always beats short term success in business, they're recognising that Cooper is the best man to bring them back up if they were to get relegated the same way Burnley often stuck with Dyche.

 

 

 

 

The comparison between business and football management is a lot weaker than it used to be. Despite the predictable outrage from pundits when managers get prematurely sacked it can very often lead to a short term improvement. 
 

There are numerous examples of successful clubs who change managers frequently. Even if, by definition, managers who have longevity tend to have sustained success - or in some cases - accepted mediocrity. 
 

The days of a genius manager being able to bring success to unfashionable clubs is mostly over. The structure off the pitch is far more important to sustained success these days in terms of finance, revenues and a stable boardroom. This is much more relatable to a business model 

[ForestAreMagic]

3 hours ago, OntarioFox said:

What I find most laughable is the sizeable number of Forest fans explaining their state away with that 'we HAD TO get a new squad' line, conveniently skipping over the fact that they barely tried to keep some key names that would have cost them less than the journeymen they replaced them with.

 

You can't tell me you couldn't afford your star man from the previous season in Djed Spence at £12 million because Spurs wage package was out of your league, then go and pay Lingard £80k a week before add-ons to plod around in a midfield so unbalanced it ought to be diagnosed with Dyspraxia.

 

As for Zinckernagel, he's exactly the sort of steady presence they're crying out for now. He went to Olympiakos for peanuts and now can't get a game on-loan for Standard Liege. Factor in Spence rotting on Spurs' bench, and there's a sizeable part of the spine that brought Forest so much success wasting away because of the absolute madness that was their summer transfer policy.

 

For the record, I'd take both here in a heartbeat.

spence is from London and had his heart set in Spurs - he told us so in January.  We never had a chance of signing him.

 

I agree signing Zinc was a no-brainer albeit he was a squad player rather than a key player.  We miss Garner more than any of the others.    the other loan that made a  difference was Davies, who’s been injured until 2 weeks ago.  
 

Yates, Colback, Worrall, McKenna and Cook have all been playing but most non-Forest supporters say none of them are good enough.

 

Who else would we have kept in our squad if we’d signed less players?  Laryea, who is now at Toronto?  Harbottle and Swan, who we’ve loaned to Mansfield?  Fin Back, now at Carlisle?

 

So it was totally necessary to do the biggest and fastest rebuilding job in PL history.

[whoareyaaa]

4 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

It felt like Djed Spence was a very important player for Forest last season. I remember him giving Luke Thomas a pretty torrid time back in February. 

I must say I'm surprised that they've stuck with Cooper, but I don't think it's a bad move. He could still turn it around and he is as well-equipped as anyone to get them promoted should they go down. I would be amazed if he sanctioned all of those signings.

Yup they should have kept the majority of the team I know a lot was loans but they should have got them for another year with the money they spent.

 

All they needed to do was add a few quality signings, can't see them surviving no chance. 

[OwnGoal]

Apart from ourselves during the great escape season I can not think of many promoted sides having a better second half of the season than first. Will take a minor miracle for Forest to stay up.  

[Jaspa]

Fair enough, was expecting the exact opposite what with them signing two dozen players.