Development/Youth Squads 2022/2023 Thread - U18/U21

[davieG]

1 minute ago, AjcW said:

Wanya off at half time  hopefully just managing his return.

Who’s 12

[AjcW]

4 minutes ago, davieG said:

Who’s 12

Godsmark-Ford? Looks like he's playing as the holding mid to be fair

[lfu]

Game-saving last-ditch tackle by Wormleighton 👏👏👏👏

[AjcW]

4 minutes ago, lfu said:

Game-saving last-ditch tackle by Wormleighton 👏👏👏👏

Often think at this level some players just hold themselves in a certain way and genuinely look like proper talents. He's definitely one, obviously Sammy the other out there today (could throw Odunze in too, I like him). 

 

One thing it does do though is emphasise that 6 or 7 others out there today absolutely do not give that impression! 

[davieG]

Looks like they’ve decided to play for a 0-0

[sacreblueits442]

...if only the first team had the mentality of Wormleighton!!!

[TommyK]

Wormleighton impresses me every time I see him play. Could have a good future. 

[AjcW]

Petty will be wanking himself into a coma over that! 

 

On the plus side Wormleighton is a player.

 

Personally i'd rather we just take going down in PL2 on the chin this season and free the likes of Wormleighton, Braybrooke and maybe even Odunze up to go out and play at EFL level!

[justfoxes]

Thought the young foxes should be proud of themselves tonight some superb performances especially from Joe Wormleighton he was Solid at the back saved a few chances that could have gone in & Odunze in goal was quality and saved some amazing shots on his goal !

 

 

[moore_94]

6 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Petty will be wanking himself into a coma over that! 

 

On the plus side Wormleighton is a player.

 

Personally i'd rather we just take going down in PL2 on the chin this season and free the likes of Wormleighton, Braybrooke and maybe even Odunze up to go out and play at EFL level!

Definitely agree

 

Would happily fill the squad with more players from the under 18s to be able to let Wormleighton, Braybrooke, Madivadua, and Maswanhise out on loans at least

[Ric Flair]

Get Wormleighton to a decent league one side on loan and I think he will be a revelation. Braybrooke is going on loan surely.

[Shane]

Wormleighton pocketed arguably the best PL2 player this season in Carlos Borges (19 goals & 11 assists in 20 games)

[moore_94]

On the attack and Wormleighton puts in a great ball

 

Then within 15 seconds he is chasing back Carlos Borges to put in a brilliant last ditch tackle

 

 

[davieG]

https://www.lcfc.com/tv/3030285/highlights--leicester-city-u21s-0-manchester-city-u21s-0

 

Highlights

[Foxy-Lady]

On 19/01/2023 at 07:42, Kilworthfox said:

It's very easy to get out of an academy, just don't turn up for the sessions you are invited to. 

 

To train at an academy it is a mutually beneficial agreement (or should be) not a demand that you can't refuse. 

 

I think the point is, if you want to play at another academy, then yes you are restricted, but you agreed with that point initially. So it's finding the balance for what is right for parents, children and clubs. 

 

There are more things that parents should take into account when offered a place at an academy than the name of the club, but some parents just see what they want to see. We are all human, and we all make decisions we are happy with or can regret. Maybe their eshiuld be some consultative organisation for patents, but the FA and PL won't have any interest in that. 

Surprisingly facetious response from you.....i think you know exactly what i was implying in my comment in that the child cannot leave an Academy and go and play elsewhere.....even if he is no longer enjoying the experience!

We all know that there are "stand-out" players (4-5 in each age group)....and the there are "filler players"  who simply make up the team within each group who will never have a long term future at a PL team like LCFC.....but may have an opportunity at a lower league level if the club chose to release them from their contracts earlier.

Thankfully, my nephew was considered to be one of those stand out players so he never had to endure the uncertainty that many other kids/parents suffered.

 

Having said that, i have always said that given the choice, the benefits at being an academy always far outweighed the benefits of not being at an academy in terms of facilities and environment...its just a case of those kids and their parents who are unlikely to make it to the top appreciating the reality of their situation and making the most of the experience for what it is.

 

The TWO disconnects for me were always...

1/. the parents who failed to adjust to the fact that their sons were stand-out players in "local" football....but were NOT stand-out players at Academy level. Just be more realistic and enjoy it for the amazing opportunity and experience that it is...

2/. the club/coaches continually giving the kids/parents "false hope" to keep them motivated.....but knowing all along the player will not succeed so are simply adding to the disappointment when the player is finally released.  

 

[Kilworthfox]

Of course you can leave, it's not a demand to train, it's an offer. You just can't leave to go to another academy unless the other academy are going to pay that pre agreed fee set by the F.A which depends on length of investment in x player, even then its the players decion to leave and not stay at their current Academy. 

 

Any player can return to play for any non academy (Grassroots) club. School football is the most important, and supercedes Academy football on the hiarachy of football, as viewed by the Football authorities, even though the standard will be lower as a generalisation. What I mean is no Academy can stop any player from playing school football. 

 

If a child is being forced to stay in any academy to the detriment to their enjoyable experience, then that is a safeguarding issue and should be reported. 

 

On to the false hope...

Well it's subjective isn't it, the ability to judge current and future potential. Releases should happen, the same as successful trialist. Therefore someone has to make a decision on players.

 

Goid practice is that if a player is struggling then they should be offered support. If they continue to struggle then maybe a release down to a non academy group is the responsible thing to do, but don't cast the player away from the academy, keep them involved but at a less intense level of expectation, that player can come back again. 

 

Who is to say? Progression is never linear, every person, when trying to achieve growth will have ups and downs in their progression, its character that pushes on, and achieves. 

 

At the ages of 6 to 21 let's say... You won't always be the top or bottom player at every stage / age group. Managers, coaches, other staff will have an impact on development, there are a miriad of factors, it literally is impossible to be find certainly, so how can any prospect be told "you are not good enough"?  Not that that is in my vocabulary when it comes to assessing players. The best player in any group can get injured and that could be career over. 

 

Also can positivity be viewed as false hope? 

If an influencer is negative about a player, I asume the player & parent (rightly so) would be very annoyed about such negativity? So you have to give hope to each player to encourage them in their development. 

 

I'm my opinion, you have to create the environment for young people to have the opportunity to be successful, and that may not mean just for football.

 

Leicester Academy is very good at some things, and very poor at others. I am sure that you can find the same faults within all academies, as once again, I believe it's subjective. The best metric is who is developing players who make professional first team appearances. This tells you a story over the last 10 to 15 years of development. 

 

If you choose a metric like game results, that is still flawed, as who cares if x age group won? It's about player development!  I'd rather lose every game of the season at u15, but produce many scholars, than winning all the games and releasing the majority or all of the players, if given the choice.

The selfish role of the academy is to produce players who will bring in revenue, or play games for the first team, nothing more. 

 

The academy costs 8 to 10 Million a season to run. We have to succeed as we do not want to be in a position where the academy is running at a defisit financially. We also do not want to be relegated as this means Academy staff will lose their jobs and that is not fair. 

 

I am not suggesting that some of the things you have written about are not a reality, they are, however it isn't as simple as saying little Johnny is just a filler, they have the same opportunity as the perceived "best" kids. 

 

The issue in my opinion, is a lack of confidence & competence within professional recruiters, and coaches. 

 

There are no metrics for a coach or recruiter. Whose responsibility or success is it, if the age group is great or poor? Simple questions get asked that are without value for example, What was the score this weekend? 

 

When you have very competent staff, you will have age groups that are very small, I have no idea why any age group would have more than 16 kids in it! You really only need half of that more or less, depending on the age group. 

 

If a coach is carrying 20 ish then why? That feeds your suggestions of filler players, which would be more than likely in my experience. The groups are supposed to be the very best players the club can find / attract. 

 

I know for example Man City Academy will have 3 different teams within age groups. Crazy! Are they really going to sign 30 players a season? However it seems to me parents would rather be at Man City than Coventry for example but at Coventry you have a much better chance of making a career. 

 

Also because a coach may have put their stamp on a specific player, they have a vested interest in that player to succeed, or the coach may be seen to have poor judgement, or worse poor abilities to coach players. A poor coach may not take on a trialist if they are better than their selected player, because their judgement may be questioned over time. What metric is in place to monitor coaches? 

 

If you are a very good coach and inherit a group of 20 say, you may wish to release the filler players, however you may be seen as ruthless and uncompassionate, or just a terrible person by the parents! It's subjective isn't it? 

 

Like I say there are so many things that a lack of competence within all academy staff that can effect the overall success of each player, age group, and club.

 

The football club should ensure that the decision makers at the top are at least competent, otherwise you could have mediocrity at every level down. Who wants that at an elite academy? 

 

 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

2/. the club/coaches continually giving the kids/parents "false hope" to keep them motivated.....but knowing all along the player will not succeed so are simply adding to the disappointment when the player is finally released.  

 

...I used to go and watch my friend's son play, and you could hear the coach, giving encouragement to my friend regarding the progress of the son within the group!!!

I had seen him play and what was being said did not match what I had seen, and perhaps because I was one step removed from the situation you could see what was actually going on. The parent is so involved and far too close and invested, and takes it all in.

  His son was released from the team and went on to university to stay within the sporting field as a physio, but my friend always wonders if he did enough to get his son his dream and if there may have been more that he could have done, such as to push his son more, or have had more knowledge of other pathways to get him into another professional club.

[An Sionnach]

If you look at our graduates over the last seven years and Foxestalk: Chilwell was regularly hammered on here until he was sold , Hamza was praised and then dismissed as not good enough , Barnes has done a bit better but gets stick often , KDH is beginning to get unwarranted criticism and Thomas is now considered nowhere near the standard. Our kids undoubtedly read this forum and must wonder whether they have chosen the right club.

[davieG]

1 minute ago, An Sionnach said:

If you look at our graduates over the last seven years and Foxestalk: Chilwell was regularly hammered on here until he was sold , Hamza was praised and then dismissed as not good enough , Barnes has done a bit better but gets stick often , KDH is beginning to get unwarranted criticism and Thomas is now considered nowhere near the standard. Our kids undoubtedly read this forum and must wonder whether they have chosen the right club.

Rodgers' doesn't help those players either with his constant bleating about the team not being good enough.

[Foxy-Lady]

5 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

Of course you can leave, it's not a demand to train, it's an offer. You just can't leave to go to another academy unless the other academy are going to pay that pre agreed fee set by the F.A which depends on length of investment in x player, even then its the players decion to leave and not stay at their current Academy. 

 

Any player can return to play for any non academy (Grassroots) club. School football is the most important, and supercedes Academy football on the hiarachy of football, as viewed by the Football authorities, even though the standard will be lower as a generalisation. What I mean is no Academy can stop any player from playing school football. 

 

If a child is being forced to stay in any academy to the detriment to their enjoyable experience, then that is a safeguarding issue and should be reported. 

 

On to the false hope...

Well it's subjective isn't it, the ability to judge current and future potential. Releases should happen, the same as successful trialist. Therefore someone has to make a decision on players.

 

Goid practice is that if a player is struggling then they should be offered support. If they continue to struggle then maybe a release down to a non academy group is the responsible thing to do, but don't cast the player away from the academy, keep them involved but at a less intense level of expectation, that player can come back again. 

 

Who is to say? Progression is never linear, every person, when trying to achieve growth will have ups and downs in their progression, its character that pushes on, and achieves. 

 

At the ages of 6 to 21 let's say... You won't always be the top or bottom player at every stage / age group. Managers, coaches, other staff will have an impact on development, there are a miriad of factors, it literally is impossible to be find certainly, so how can any prospect be told "you are not good enough"?  Not that that is in my vocabulary when it comes to assessing players. The best player in any group can get injured and that could be career over. 

 

Also can positivity be viewed as false hope? 

If an influencer is negative about a player, I asume the player & parent (rightly so) would be very annoyed about such negativity? So you have to give hope to each player to encourage them in their development. 

 

I'm my opinion, you have to create the environment for young people to have the opportunity to be successful, and that may not mean just for football.

 

Leicester Academy is very good at some things, and very poor at others. I am sure that you can find the same faults within all academies, as once again, I believe it's subjective. The best metric is who is developing players who make professional first team appearances. This tells you a story over the last 10 to 15 years of development. 

 

If you choose a metric like game results, that is still flawed, as who cares if x age group won? It's about player development!  I'd rather lose every game of the season at u15, but produce many scholars, than winning all the games and releasing the majority or all of the players, if given the choice.

The selfish role of the academy is to produce players who will bring in revenue, or play games for the first team, nothing more. 

 

The academy costs 8 to 10 Million a season to run. We have to succeed as we do not want to be in a position where the academy is running at a defisit financially. We also do not want to be relegated as this means Academy staff will lose their jobs and that is not fair. 

 

I am not suggesting that some of the things you have written about are not a reality, they are, however it isn't as simple as saying little Johnny is just a filler, they have the same opportunity as the perceived "best" kids. 

 

The issue in my opinion, is a lack of confidence & competence within professional recruiters, and coaches. 

 

There are no metrics for a coach or recruiter. Whose responsibility or success is it, if the age group is great or poor? Simple questions get asked that are without value for example, What was the score this weekend? 

 

When you have very competent staff, you will have age groups that are very small, I have no idea why any age group would have more than 16 kids in it! You really only need half of that more or less, depending on the age group. 

 

If a coach is carrying 20 ish then why? That feeds your suggestions of filler players, which would be more than likely in my experience. The groups are supposed to be the very best players the club can find / attract. 

 

I know for example Man City Academy will have 3 different teams within age groups. Crazy! Are they really going to sign 30 players a season? However it seems to me parents would rather be at Man City than Coventry for example but at Coventry you have a much better chance of making a career. 

 

Also because a coach may have put their stamp on a specific player, they have a vested interest in that player to succeed, or the coach may be seen to have poor judgement, or worse poor abilities to coach players. A poor coach may not take on a trialist if they are better than their selected player, because their judgement may be questioned over time. What metric is in place to monitor coaches? 

 

If you are a very good coach and inherit a group of 20 say, you may wish to release the filler players, however you may be seen as ruthless and uncompassionate, or just a terrible person by the parents! It's subjective isn't it? 

 

Like I say there are so many things that a lack of competence within all academy staff that can effect the overall success of each player, age group, and club.

 

The football club should ensure that the decision makers at the top are at least competent, otherwise you could have mediocrity at every level down. Who wants that at an elite academy? 

 

 

You raise more questions than answers for me so im not going to persue this any further as we BOTH know that my original comment about not being easy for a player to leave an academy was related to leaving for an opportunity elsewhere rather than being "imrprisoned" and being forced to attend every week against their wishes...!

My comment was about freedom of movement once you are in an academy......not whether or not the child is forced to turn up every week...!

 

As for key metrics, the one that i always recognise is that coaches are very quick to claim their part in the success of any player (ie Barnes, Chilwell, KDH etc) but they are never to be seen or heard when very promising players fail to reach their expected potential....as this is ALWAYS blamed on the players attitude or their failure to develope!

 

The role of an academy coach is almost the perfect job in that they claim credit for their role in everything that goes well.....but accept ZERO responsibility for anything that does not go so well.

 

Steve Beaglehole is the ultimate example of this for me as i know from first-hand experience from Chilwells and Barness parents that they were desparate for their sons to go out on loan at the earliest opportunity so their development did not stall playing for a coach who they had absolutely ZERO respect for.....yet Beaglehole remained in role for several years NOT as a result of his coaching excellence....but because of his relationshipo and loyalty to John Rudkin  

 

So, when it comes to the measurement metrics you outline, Beaglehole would probably be classed as a successful coach purely because of the academy players that have now made it through to the first team.. 

However, When it comes to reality, i doubt you would find any player or parent who would speak highly of his coaching abilities....and i know their are several agents and ex-coaches at LCFC who all share this same view!

The ex-acadamy players we see today playing for our first team made it through despite Beaglehole and his coaching team....NOT because of them! 

[st albans fox]

6 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

Of course you can leave, it's not a demand to train, it's an offer. You just can't leave to go to another academy unless the other academy are going to pay that pre agreed fee set by the F.A which depends on length of investment in x player, even then its the players decion to leave and not stay at their current Academy. 

 

Any player can return to play for any non academy (Grassroots) club. School football is the most important, and supercedes Academy football on the hiarachy of football, as viewed by the Football authorities, even though the standard will be lower as a generalisation. What I mean is no Academy can stop any player from playing school football. 

 

If a child is being forced to stay in any academy to the detriment to their enjoyable experience, then that is a safeguarding issue and should be reported. 

 

On to the false hope...

Well it's subjective isn't it, the ability to judge current and future potential. Releases should happen, the same as successful trialist. Therefore someone has to make a decision on players.

 

Goid practice is that if a player is struggling then they should be offered support. If they continue to struggle then maybe a release down to a non academy group is the responsible thing to do, but don't cast the player away from the academy, keep them involved but at a less intense level of expectation, that player can come back again. 

 

Who is to say? Progression is never linear, every person, when trying to achieve growth will have ups and downs in their progression, its character that pushes on, and achieves. 

 

At the ages of 6 to 21 let's say... You won't always be the top or bottom player at every stage / age group. Managers, coaches, other staff will have an impact on development, there are a miriad of factors, it literally is impossible to be find certainly, so how can any prospect be told "you are not good enough"?  Not that that is in my vocabulary when it comes to assessing players. The best player in any group can get injured and that could be career over. 

 

Also can positivity be viewed as false hope? 

If an influencer is negative about a player, I asume the player & parent (rightly so) would be very annoyed about such negativity? So you have to give hope to each player to encourage them in their development. 

 

I'm my opinion, you have to create the environment for young people to have the opportunity to be successful, and that may not mean just for football.

 

Leicester Academy is very good at some things, and very poor at others. I am sure that you can find the same faults within all academies, as once again, I believe it's subjective. The best metric is who is developing players who make professional first team appearances. This tells you a story over the last 10 to 15 years of development. 

 

If you choose a metric like game results, that is still flawed, as who cares if x age group won? It's about player development!  I'd rather lose every game of the season at u15, but produce many scholars, than winning all the games and releasing the majority or all of the players, if given the choice.

The selfish role of the academy is to produce players who will bring in revenue, or play games for the first team, nothing more. 

 

The academy costs 8 to 10 Million a season to run. We have to succeed as we do not want to be in a position where the academy is running at a defisit financially. We also do not want to be relegated as this means Academy staff will lose their jobs and that is not fair. 

 

I am not suggesting that some of the things you have written about are not a reality, they are, however it isn't as simple as saying little Johnny is just a filler, they have the same opportunity as the perceived "best" kids. 

 

The issue in my opinion, is a lack of confidence & competence within professional recruiters, and coaches. 

 

There are no metrics for a coach or recruiter. Whose responsibility or success is it, if the age group is great or poor? Simple questions get asked that are without value for example, What was the score this weekend? 

 

When you have very competent staff, you will have age groups that are very small, I have no idea why any age group would have more than 16 kids in it! You really only need half of that more or less, depending on the age group. 

 

If a coach is carrying 20 ish then why? That feeds your suggestions of filler players, which would be more than likely in my experience. The groups are supposed to be the very best players the club can find / attract. 

 

I know for example Man City Academy will have 3 different teams within age groups. Crazy! Are they really going to sign 30 players a season? However it seems to me parents would rather be at Man City than Coventry for example but at Coventry you have a much better chance of making a career. 

 

Also because a coach may have put their stamp on a specific player, they have a vested interest in that player to succeed, or the coach may be seen to have poor judgement, or worse poor abilities to coach players. A poor coach may not take on a trialist if they are better than their selected player, because their judgement may be questioned over time. What metric is in place to monitor coaches? 

 

If you are a very good coach and inherit a group of 20 say, you may wish to release the filler players, however you may be seen as ruthless and uncompassionate, or just a terrible person by the parents! It's subjective isn't it? 

 

Like I say there are so many things that a lack of competence within all academy staff that can effect the overall success of each player, age group, and club.

 

The football club should ensure that the decision makers at the top are at least competent, otherwise you could have mediocrity at every level down. Who wants that at an elite academy? 

 

 

On the school > academy thing, you’re ‘mistaken’ if you think kids choose to play school football ahead of their academy commitments. Academies make it clear ( off the record) that they want the kids to not play school football  ( the odd cup game is ok).   Parents will do whatever the academy ask them to because they are too scared to upset them.  The academies need a fair number of kids that they know won’t make it because otherwise the really good players have no one to train with!  We can’t all be Man City or chelsea. So they keep the parents and kids on the end of a piece of string. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs 

 

[Kilworthfox]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

On the school > academy thing, you’re ‘mistaken’ if you think kids choose to play school football ahead of their academy commitments. Academies make it clear ( off the record) that they want the kids to not play school football  ( the odd cup game is ok).   Parents will do whatever the academy ask them to because they are too scared to upset them.  The academies need a fair number of kids that they know won’t make it because otherwise the really good players have no one to train with!  We can’t all be Man City or chelsea. So they keep the parents and kids on the end of a piece of string. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs 

 

Hey mate. 

 

Just to clarify, I was explaining that an academy can ask a player to not play for their School, but can not make any demands. 

[Kilworthfox]

3 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

You raise more questions than answers for me so im not going to persue this any further as we BOTH know that my original comment about not being easy for a player to leave an academy was related to leaving for an opportunity elsewhere rather than being "imrprisoned" and being forced to attend every week against their wishes...!

My comment was about freedom of movement once you are in an academy......not whether or not the child is forced to turn up every week...!

 

As for key metrics, the one that i always recognise is that coaches are very quick to claim their part in the success of any player (ie Barnes, Chilwell, KDH etc) but they are never to be seen or heard when very promising players fail to reach their expected potential....as this is ALWAYS blamed on the players attitude or their failure to develope!

 

The role of an academy coach is almost the perfect job in that they claim credit for their role in everything that goes well.....but accept ZERO responsibility for anything that does not go so well.

 

Steve Beaglehole is the ultimate example of this for me as i know from first-hand experience from Chilwells and Barness parents that they were desparate for their sons to go out on loan at the earliest opportunity so their development did not stall playing for a coach who they had absolutely ZERO respect for.....yet Beaglehole remained in role for several years NOT as a result of his coaching excellence....but because of his relationshipo and loyalty to John Rudkin  

 

So, when it comes to the measurement metrics you outline, Beaglehole would probably be classed as a successful coach purely because of the academy players that have now made it through to the first team.. 

However, When it comes to reality, i doubt you would find any player or parent who would speak highly of his coaching abilities....and i know their are several agents and ex-coaches at LCFC who all share this same view!

The ex-acadamy players we see today playing for our first team made it through despite Beaglehole and his coaching team....NOT because of them! 

Old Boys. 

 

Took years but happened in the end. 

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Hey mate. 

 

Just to clarify, I was explaining that an academy can ask a player to not play for their School, but can not make any demands. 

Yep - you’re right about that. my point is that they do make those demands but not officially.  We have one academy kid in my youngest’s year and he’s played one school game out of seven. My lad has asked him why and the reply is that the academy don’t want him playing on a Saturday morning for the school and if a midweek game is the same day as academy training then he prioritises that. 

 

it may not be what should happen but it does. 

[MGsDad]

39 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Yep - you’re right about that. my point is that they do make those demands but not officially.  We have one academy kid in my youngest’s year and he’s played one school game out of seven. My lad has asked him why and the reply is that the academy don’t want him playing on a Saturday morning for the school and if a midweek game is the same day as academy training then he prioritises that. 

 

it may not be what should happen but it does. 

Leicester have never asked any of our lads not to play football for the school. My son's year 7 and has played for the school. There's only maybe 2 in the whole age group that don't play for the school too and that is the parents decision not to let them play. I'm not overly keen on my son playing for the school to be honest. He gets frustrated with not being able to play his football style and the risk of him being injured makes me want to say no to it but all the time he wants to do it I'll let him.