Development/Youth Squads 2022/2023 Thread - U18/U21

[sacreblueits442]

6 hours ago, Foxxed said:

If we were losing and developing it's no problem. I'm not seeing much development. You could argue Braybrooke and Alves were developed in this period though...

...Leicester Tigers always promoted from inside, the Tigers Way!!!

 We got worse season by season believing it will all come right, it worked before, the blue print runs through the club.

 They brought in Borthwick and he changed everything and brought a different perspective to the way we played and the players mentality. 

 We need people not so mired into this club to clear away the archaic attitudes and bring this team into the real world. 

  We need a system and a pathway where we can quantify our process and progress.

 The academy should be the driving force and the reason for the big investment. 

[Foxxed]

5 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

depends your definition of giving a chance. We are happy to carry chancers like leshabella for 5 odd years… that’s definitely  giving someone a chance.

 

We don’t have an easy route of progression to the first team but i’m not sure any premier league club does. If you are good enough and prove yourself on a loan you’d have a good chance to break through though. 

 

Even league 2 standard players like dailey-campbell got to play for the first team so it’s not a completely blocked path.

 

I think some people have an old school mindset with youth players… that they should just be chucked in. But both our club and football has progressed and you need to go out and earn it by proving yourself and developing on loan and i’m fine with that.

 

What i’m not fine with, is not allowing players to go out on loan because either we think our facilities are better / our under 21s need to win / they are being held incase of an injury crisis. 

 

One thing I will say, is the club have very rarely got it wrong when releasing a player. We had a couple of players who chose to not be here basey being the obvious one. But even he may not be good enough for the prem. so most of the arguments about why aren’t we giving youth a chance are largely validated as simply… the crop hasn’t been good enough. It’s not like we’ve missed out on a rashford because we haven’t given someone a shot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back then he said route into the first team. We had Schlupp, Moore, King, Dodoo, Chilwell for example.

 

Since Brendan arrived he reluctantly played Thomas, took in KDH after a successful loan spell and at a relative old age for an academy player. And there's been a splattering of minutes elsewhere.

 

It's hard to say the route into the first team is as easy as before. Obviously we're at a higher level now. But equally it's hard to say Brendan is keen to develop youngsters--the only real exception being when one had already proved himself a top championship player.

Edited 28 February 2023 by Foxxed

[Foxxed]

Three point plan:

Get a manager who wants to develop youth.

 

Improve the coaching (so we increase our output of Prem quality players).

 

Figure out what's causing the injuries.

[Noahfence]

Blackburn manager subbed on a 17 year old defender late on last night whilst they’re defending a lead away at a Premier league club. Meanwhile our young prospects can’t even get cup appearances 

[Thefoxman]

Coaching down there is beyond embarrassing! 

I've had 5+ years down there and its a joke.

 

Life long lcfc fan but can honestly say its rotten at the new Facility.

[Foxy-Lady]

On 28/02/2023 at 10:45, Kilworthfox said:

Spoke with a coach. 

 

I asked what he believed the issue was, he said they are collectively too nice. 

Shock News......LCFC Academy coach blames failure on players.

 

In other news.....LCFC Academy coaches claim all the plaudits for the success of Barnes, Chilwell, Thomas and KDH

[Foxy-Lady]

On 28/02/2023 at 16:05, Lambert09 said:

 

One thing I will say, is the club have very rarely got it wrong when releasing a player. We had a couple of players who chose to not be here basey being the obvious one. But even he may not be good enough for the prem. so most of the arguments about why aren’t we giving youth a chance are largely validated as simply… the crop hasn’t been good enough. It’s not like we’ve missed out on a rashford because we haven’t given someone a shot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a real issue with this way of thinking as it is the very definition of "closed loop thinking"

 

I have stated many times on here that the coaches are always very quick to dis-associate themselves from any failures....but very quick to be associated with any successes.

From what i saw at the Academy for many years, there were some seriously talented young players who somehow failed to progress from International level at U16s level and disappeared off the radar completely as soon as they became part of Peake and Beagleholes U18s and U21s 

 

It is true that being an outstanding prospect and an International at a young level (U16s) does not necessarily guarantee that the player will continue to develop and realise the anticipated potential. 

 

BUT....it is also true that if the player does not continue to receive the same level of coaching all the way through his development years as his peers at other clubs, then their development will obviously stagnate by comparison and i have said on several posts previously that Peake and Beaglehole would almost certainly have NOT survived at any other TOP club for as long as they did at LCFC (assuming they ever got a job their in the 1st place...?!?)

 

Leighton Ndukwu was recognised as one of the most talented and technically players of his age group in the whole country when he was 15-16 years old and a regular for England teams.......but he was never going to fit Steve Beagleholes style of lower league "get in their faces, run and kick it long" tactics and his liking for physically big and strong workmenlike players.

We will never know if he would have succeeded at any other club..... but we do know that there are too many U16 Internationals that have simply slipped "disappeared" in LCFCs U17-23 system during the past 10 years.....and it is "closed loop thinking" to simply assume that was always because those players were not good enough...!

Perhaps we have actually missed out on a Rashford......its just that we never knew it!

 

(PS  Marcus Rashford was thrown in as a 19 year old youngster by Jose Mourinho because of an injury crisis.  I suspect that without the crisis, Mourinho may never have used him and we might never have heard of him

Point being is that all it takes is a bit of good fortune and an opportunity and you never know what can happen......and i always wonder what might have happened to Ndukwu if he had been allowed to leave LCFC at 16 and join a Top club with better coaches...!) 

 

[themightyfin]

Ben Petty is not the problem. 

His hands  are tied in a lot of respects. 

He doesn't really have much free reign to make many decisions.  

A bit of a lamb to the slaughter to be honest he just does not hold enough clout at the club to be able to put his own stamp on things and make a big difference.  

[sacreblueits442]

33 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Ben Petty is not the problem. 

His hands  are tied in a lot of respects. 

He doesn't really have much free reign to make many decisions.  

A bit of a lamb to the slaughter to be honest he just does not hold enough clout at the club to be able to put his own stamp on things and make a big difference.  

...so what is the point of him being there!!!

I know you have to put food on the table, but in a position where you are in charge of developing young talent, he has to have a major say in how the players are brought through. Why would you want to be just a puppet in this set-up, just how much ambition and integrity does he have?

[filbertway]

11 hours ago, Noahfence said:

Blackburn manager subbed on a 17 year old defender late on last night whilst they’re defending a lead away at a Premier league club. Meanwhile our young prospects can’t even get cup appearances 

To be fair, you can't expect to trust the England U19 captain against Gillingham. Or so Brendan and his friends on here seem to think anyway

 

 

[themightyfin]

7 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...so what is the point of him being there!!!

I know you have to put food on the table, but in a position where you are in charge of developing young talent, he has to have a major say in how the players are brought through. Why would you want to be just a puppet in this set-up, just how much ambition and integrity does he have?

He may share the frustration being spoken about here but he's not on £10,million a year. He not not be in a position personally just to up and walk just because he don't have everything in his hands the way he wants. Financially he probably doesn't have that luxury.  He still needs to pay his bills and provide at the end if the day. 

 

Many people in the world may have frustration in their job but you simply can't just walk away because if it. It doesn't mean you have no integrity. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

Ben Petty is not the problem. 

His hands  are tied in a lot of respects. 

He doesn't really have much free reign to make many decisions.  

A bit of a lamb to the slaughter to be honest he just does not hold enough clout at the club to be able to put his own stamp on things and make a big difference.  

Who is the decision maker in the academy? Jon Rudkin, I assume? There's so many vacancies or positions they were intending to fill and haven't. It's all very half arsed in the academy and completely at odds with the purpose of the best training facilities in the world.

[lgfualol]

1 hour ago, Foxy-Lady said:

Leighton Ndukwu

Blast from the past. He's playing in Albania now for anyone interested.

[sacreblueits442]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Who is the decision maker in the academy? Jon Rudkin, I assume? There's so many vacancies or positions they were intending to replace and haven't. It's all very half arsed if the academy and completely at odds with the purpose of the best training facilities in the world.

If Rudkin has his hands on the way the academy runs, why do we bother to invest the time and money in development!!!

He has to give up the safety net and concentrate on the role that he has signed up for and no doubt paid handsomely for and that is signing up players. We need a long-term plan with the right staff in place to make this work.

  There are talented people out there who could bring the quality and expert coaching to develop our players, we just need to give them the chance to work in an environment that has everything, it is only bricks and mortar, and without the talented coaches, that is all it will ever be.

[themightyfin]

25 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

If Rudkin has his hands on the way the academy runs, why do we bother to invest the time and money in development!!!

He has to give up the safety net and concentrate on the role that he has signed up for and no doubt paid handsomely for and that is signing up players. We need a long-term plan with the right staff in place to make this work.

  There are talented people out there who could bring the quality and expert coaching to develop our players, we just need to give them the chance to work in an environment that has everything, it is only bricks and mortar, and without the talented coaches, that is all it will ever be.

Personally I think Petty is a very talented coach. As is Adam at u18s. But if their wings are clipped there's only so much they can influence.  

[Foxxed]

8 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Personally I think Petty is a very talented coach. As is Adam at u18s. But if their wings are clipped there's only so much they can influence.  

Clipped how?

[An Sionnach]

9 hours ago, filbertway said:

To be fair, you can't expect to trust the England U19 captain against Gillingham. Or so Brendan and his friends on here seem to think anyway

 

 

Absolutely , the orthodoxy on here is loan them out to be bench options in Div.1 until they are 23.

[davieG]

There is or should be a hierarchy of coaches there and they should meet and discuss the over all aim of the academy including principles, ideology, ethos, thinking, attitude etc. The future needs of the club emphasis on recruitment at the different levels. with periodic attendance by associated personnel like Head Grounds-people, Dieticians, Fitness Personnel, Doctor etc.

 

At the very least there should be within that sub groups of related levels where they discus the development of every player on a regular basis.

 

1st Team - U21 - U18 coaches

U21 - U18 - U16 Coaches

U18 - U16 and so on.

 

This may go on who knows but from the outside all I see across the whole club is chaos and a total lack of communication that has now affected the players on the pitch who look and play like complete strangers performing as if androids.

[ParkerPen]

when the Director of Football role first started to appear years and years ago I confess I scoffed at it and didnt understand how it could possibly help or be relevant, and only seemed to undermine the first team manager.

 

fast forward 20 odd or more years and we desperately need a DOF who can set the 'tone' for the club.

 

what do we want to achieve on and off the pitch and how do we go about it.

playing style, coaching style etc all has to be consistent and you sign the players (and perhaps more importantly) all the staff to suit.

[Noahfence]

32 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Absolutely , the orthodoxy on here is loan them out to be bench options in Div.1 until they are 23.

 

10 hours ago, filbertway said:

To be fair, you can't expect to trust the England U19 captain against Gillingham. Or so Brendan and his friends on here seem to think anyway

 

 

It really is a joke isn’t it  we played, Blackburn, Walsall, Gillingham, MK Dons, Newport and Stockport in this years cups and the only academy “prospects” to get minutes were Brunt & Mcateer who have no future here. Then Braybrooke got a massive 15 minutes v Newport! 

Edited 2 March 2023 by Noahfence

[Ric Flair]

I think what will be telling in the coming months is how long Robert Huth sticks around as loans manager.

[Stadt]

Rudkin is the biggest long term problem at the club. The first team are shit, our age groups are shit, recruitment is shit, contract management is shit, staff retention is shit, medical dept is shit.

 

This charlatan's job is just as safe as Rodgers. Get out of our club you ****ing leech.

[Kilworthfox]

9 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Rudkin is the biggest long term problem at the club. The first team are shit, our age groups are shit, recruitment is shit, contract management is shit, staff retention is shit, medical dept is shit.

 

This charlatan's job is just as safe as Rodgers. Get out of our club you ****ing leech.

Why? 

[filbertway]

24 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Why? 

You'd assume the DOF has ultimate say over the football side of things at the club, otherwise I'm not sure what purpose he serves.

 

Then if you work on that assumption, Stadt has already answered your question with the rest of the post.

[Kilworthfox]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

You'd assume the DOF has ultimate say over the football side of things at the club, otherwise I'm not sure what purpose he serves.

 

Then if you work on that assumption, Stadt has already answered your question with the rest of the post.

 

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Rudkin is the biggest long term problem at the club. The first team are shit, our age groups are shit, recruitment is shit, contract management is shit, staff retention is shit, medical dept is shit.

 

This charlatan's job is just as safe as Rodgers. Get out of our club you ****ing leech.

The first team isn't shit. They are underachieving, considering the resources they have, absolutely. That I believe is the number 1 frustration for the majority of the LCFC fanbase.

 

When you refer to the age groups, I am unsure what importance that has? The academy doesn't exist for the age groups to win anything, it is not important! What is important is the value the club receives from running the academy. The club values Money from transfer sales, and wins & draws in the first team competitions.

 

Contract management I can agree with to a certain extent, However if we didn't have Tielemans for example this season we would still be in the relegation zone (1 example). This then can lead to a discussion of could we have replaced YT sufficiently already, and find another player to put in a few worldies from 25 yards? I'd argue that not under the previous first team head of recruitment, and current manager, as his / their, ability to veto or accept the first team players (in recent seasons) is highly questionable at best. Hence our fall from the European qualifications.

 

Staff retention, you going to have to elaborate, for example, I believe we have held on to a failing first team manager for way too long, is this your point? If so agreed 100%.

 

The medical department is shit? Why because we have injuries? Every sports organisation has injuries, I believe what you are suggesting is, we have a more than  what we believe to be a reasonable amount of injuries? Is that the medical departments responsibility? They just try to fix the issues rather than cause them? They do have a responsibility to assess and suggest workloads for players, however I question anyone on here to provide me with insight, that this advice is being taken 100% of the time. So how can you write they are shit?

 

It seems to me, with minimal collective inside insight, we judge 1 person (who does have a lot of responsibility) for all the perceived failures, I am unsure how logical that is! Yes he is ultimately responsible for the football operations, then again you don't get a dog and bark yourself, otherwise you'd have Top serving drinks at half time.

 

I have a minimal insight, I do not know JR, however I know that we ignore things on here that he does because it doesn't suit the negative narrative or it just isn't interesting enough to be discussed today, but maybe in a few seasons... Then we can reevaluate our opinion.

 

The success and failure of any football club, is a collective effort, the same as in any organisation. There are some very competent members of staff who I personally know go above and beyond their roles, because they are passionate about their roles, and this club and all of its players. There on the flip side are some very poor members of staff who just do the minimum to keep their jobs. It's a frustration, but the club would have to really look at its hiring processes, as once you are in, and past your 2 year anniversary with the club, How does the club remove anyone, and on what basis? Football is a subjective industry, with what performance metrics for a Coach, Scout, Director, Physio, the list goes on and on... there are no easy answers to this! In all honesty, I don't believe there is much appetite within the club to weed out individuals, as it could you be next!

 

From my perspective there are a few parents of players (former players) on here who either have positive or negative experiences within the academy. This is reflected within their posts, they are the nearest to what I would call the reality you will find on FT about the academy, therefore in my opinion, read their posts more often than those who do not appear to have information or opinions that are close to what the reality is, as a lot of opinions on here are crackers and nowhere near the reality.

 

Some things could be a lot better, some things could be a lot worse, that's life isnt it? I used to have the desire to change the culture, and lead with my enthusiasm and professionalism within my role, you can influence and educate those who share your passion, the rest feel threatened as they either do not have your abilities or share the enthusiasm (A protectionist mindset). This will be the exact same for the organisations that you work in.