Development/Youth Squads 2022/2023 Thread - U18/U21

[davieG]

Just now, Kilworthfox said:

Acadmey football is all about individual development not results. 

..and I recognise that but development for me also means learning how and wanting to win games.  You can have all the skills and attributes you want but if you a lack a winning personality I doubt you'll make it to a professional level.

 

Our 1st team squad seem to have lost this winning attitude, they have a definite defeatist air about them.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

I don't have the same approach to the Under 21s as most. This is all part and parcel of academy football.

 

The results shouldn't be used as a negative - it's about personal footballers development, that's where we fail badly. 

Agreed but results will tend to come with a very well ran academy and right now we're on the verge of the 2nd relegation for the U21s in 3 seasons. 2 years ago they managed to escape relegation for some reason but I don't think that will be the case this season.

 

Whole academy needs a new blueprint, losing McGuinness and a few other staff don't appear to have been replaced nor has there been any easily identifiable scaling up that I'd have expected as we've transitioned in to these new facilities.

 

The academy needs to be at the core of our long term sustainable model of attempting to compete with the goliaths, but right now I think mistakes have been made on this and its time to get serious about what our ambition is to be.

[Kilworthfox]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

..and I recognise that but development for me also means learning how and wanting to win games.  You can have all the skills and attributes you want but if you a lack a winning personality I doubt you'll make it to a professional level.

 

Our 1st team squad seem to have lost this winning attitude, they have a definite defeatist air about them.

2 Separate entities mate.

 

1 is supposed to feed the other, however due to the culture of the clubs u23s in particular, I doubt we will be feeding the 1st team directly from our u23s. Like you suggest the results "should" be better as talented individuals "should" be able to generate positive results as a team, seeing as they are not doing that, it would suggest that individuals are not developing whilst playing PL2 games. Seems to be valueless football being played within PL2.

 

Ideally we would be getting players out on loan! Playing in games where they can develop and bring some value back to the football club.

 

 

 

[Kilworthfox]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Agreed but results will tend to come with a very well ran academy and right now we're on the verge of the 2nd relegation for the U21s in 3 seasons. 2 years ago they managed to escape relegation for some reason but I don't think that will be the case this season.

 

Whole academy needs a new blueprint, losing McGuinness and a few other staff don't appear to have been replaced nor has there been any easily identifiable scaling up that I'd have expected as we've transitioned in to these new facilities.

 

The academy needs to be at the core of our long term sustainable model of attempting to compete with the goliaths, but right now I think mistakes have been made on this and its time to get serious about what our ambition is to be.

What do you expect the new TG will bring?

They are just club facilities after all! There seems to be a common belief that the investment in the new TG will automatically bring some kind of improvement, I have no idea why this belief exists. It seem logical to expect an improvement, however what we had wasn't far off what we have invested in. I know nobody wants to hear this, however, for £90 million, it just looks a bit nicer.

 

We for example could wear a snazzy new kit, it doesn't mean the players will get better results.

 

Agreed, but not every member of staff will share the passion on this forum as you (we) are fanatics, and not every staff member is as interested in their role as you would like to asume.

This leads to apathy, and then the obvious calls not being made, as nobody is looking, seems nobody cares, and how do you pinpoint what is exactly wrong when so many people are involved?

Some people don't want to find any faults, as then they may be looked at personally as well if that culture begins, that could cause a worry about your own personal role at the club.

Some people aren't interested in every facet of the club or academy.It is almost like the club just runs as it does, there is no real appetite to fix what doesn't appear to be broken. 

 

[An Sionnach]

Loaning doesn't mean playing.We have had a whole host of bench - polishing loanees. Honourable exception at the moment , the much criticised and dismissed Hamza.

[Ric Flair]

55 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

What do you expect the new TG will bring?

They are just club facilities after all! There seems to be a common belief that the investment in the new TG will automatically bring some kind of improvement, I have no idea why this belief exists. It seem logical to expect an improvement, however what we had wasn't far off what we have invested in. I know nobody wants to hear this, however, for £90 million, it just looks a bit nicer.

 

We for example could wear a snazzy new kit, it doesn't mean the players will get better results.

 

Agreed, but not every member of staff will share the passion on this forum as you (we) are fanatics, and not every staff member is as interested in their role as you would like to asume.

This leads to apathy, and then the obvious calls not being made, as nobody is looking, seems nobody cares, and how do you pinpoint what is exactly wrong when so many people are involved?

Some people don't want to find any faults, as then they may be looked at personally as well if that culture begins, that could cause a worry about your own personal role at the club.

Some people aren't interested in every facet of the club or academy.It is almost like the club just runs as it does, there is no real appetite to fix what doesn't appear to be broken. 

 

The whole ethos behind the new training ground was to build a dynasty of player improvement from academy ages through to the 1st team.

 

I highly doubt it has happened but if you are going to do what we've done and have the vision for this, then at the forefront of it is significant investment in to the academy where the marginal gains for player improvement can be vast. I've seen no tangible increase in investment in the recruitment of players in the 16-20 age bracket (we missed a huge trick before the transfer rule changes came in to effect at a time many other clubs around us did), no recruitment of new coaches at the age levels (U16/18/21) most obvious to the average fan, there's been some senior strategic posts in the academy that have lay vacant for months / years and overall there's been little development. 

 

The appointment of Paul McGuinness is the one clue that we had certain ideas for the future of the academy but for whatever reason they've barely changed and Paul sadly departed. The sheer size of the operation is clear to see that at some point that is or was the vision.

 

If I could have my way, the number 1 priority of this football club would be to build the best academy in the world. By having that goal, I'd expect improvements to be made.

 

I'd build an ethos where the fundamental plan is to create and develop as many first team players as humanely possible, whether to play for Leicester City or to be sold and the funds reinvested. By having a finely tuned process with the best coaches money can buy, a sizeable chunk of resources available to recruit and run the academy and the reputation of our academy improving as a result I'd expect us to be in an environment of having players coming through. 

 

By doing so, we can further operate the investment model of our club where the 1st team buys gifted young players for low to medium fees, develops them in the first team and carefully sells chosen high value players when the time is right.

 

Those funds are reinvested to attempt to compete with the best of the rest as much as possible and improve the squad overall. This is an extension of the way the academy is operated and the academy compliments the 1st team with providing the replacements for some of those players that are sold, whether that be because they are sought after by bigger clubs, no longer 1st choice for us, etc.

 

The whole process is part of the sustainable long term model our club talks about, now I accept all of that isn't easy and to attempt to do it from a point of power that we've gotten ourselves in to is also difficult. We can't suddenly neglect our stature as being at the time in amongst the top handful of PL clubs, to focus solely on the academy but it could and should have been taken more seriously. We've wasted multiple millions elsewhere that could have been best used in this function and we'd hopefully be already bearing the fruits of this.

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

Acadmey football is all about individual development not results. 

...I  do think they go hand in hand!!!

[majaco]

21 hours ago, Nannypig7 said:

Don’t know if you know but both have ACL injuries 

Yes I did.   That's why I put, 'should have'.  Otherwise, I would have put just 'should'.  I was using tense to help get my meaning across.

[Foxy-Lady]

On 07/03/2023 at 14:26, Kilworthfox said:

What do you expect the new TG will bring?

They are just club facilities after all! There seems to be a common belief that the investment in the new TG will automatically bring some kind of improvement, I have no idea why this belief exists. It seem logical to expect an improvement, however what we had wasn't far off what we have invested in. I know nobody wants to hear this, however, for £90 million, it just looks a bit nicer.

 

We for example could wear a snazzy new kit, it doesn't mean the players will get better results.

 

Agreed, but not every member of staff will share the passion on this forum as you (we) are fanatics, and not every staff member is as interested in their role as you would like to asume.

This leads to apathy, and then the obvious calls not being made, as nobody is looking, seems nobody cares, and how do you pinpoint what is exactly wrong when so many people are involved?

Some people don't want to find any faults, as then they may be looked at personally as well if that culture begins, that could cause a worry about your own personal role at the club.

Some people aren't interested in every facet of the club or academy.It is almost like the club just runs as it does, there is no real appetite to fix what doesn't appear to be broken. 

 

I was enjoying reading that and you had me nodding my head in agreement................UNTIL i read your final sentence

If apathy exists then its exists because it has been allowed to exist....and that is the result of the wrong messages and culture from the Top down..

 

And if apathy does exist....In what way is our system NOT broken...?!?

 

Our next crop of young players are not going to be challenging themselves or developing as quickly as they might playing in a "lower standard" of U21s football every week.

 

@Ric Flairnailed it for me in his reply in that we invested in world class facilities with the ambition to attract and recruit the very best young talent available......yet "someone" forgot to recruit the very best coaches available that would enable us to fully realise the potential of those talented young players..

As you say, having a snazzy new kit and a shiny new facility wont make the players any better if you put my mum in charge of the coaching...! 

 

[Ric Flair]

17 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I was enjoying reading that and you had me nodding my head in agreement................UNTIL i read your final sentence

If apathy exists then its exists because it has been allowed to exist....and that is the result of the wrong messages and culture from the Top down..

 

And if apathy does exist....In what way is our system NOT broken...?!?

 

Our next crop of young players are not going to be challenging themselves or developing as quickly as they might playing in a "lower standard" of U21s football every week.

 

@Ric Flairnailed it for me in his reply in that we invested in world class facilities with the ambition to attract and recruit the very best young talent available......yet "someone" forgot to recruit the very best coaches available that would enable us to fully realise the potential of those talented young players..

As you say, having a snazzy new kit and a shiny new facility wont make the players any better if you put my mum in charge of the coaching...! 

 

The new coaches is more in regards to the older age groups in the academy, there's been precious little change. Behind the scenes lower down it looks like the standard and quality is high.

[sacreblueits442]

49 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The new coaches is more in regards to the older age groups in the academy, there's been precious little change. Behind the scenes lower down it looks like the standard and quality is high.

...if that is the case, then why not promote them to the next level!!!

[Foxxed]

6 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...if that is the case, then why not promote them to the next level!!!

Younger age groups are more important?

 

No point in having great coaches at u21s when they're given poorly developed players.

 

 

Edited 9 March 2023 by Foxxed

[Kilworthfox]

8 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...if that is the case, then why not promote them to the next level!!!

Because someone with power would have to first take an interest to the level that Warrents an investigation into staff who aren't performing to expected levels. 

 

This doesn't happen. 

 

What metrics do you suggest the club uses to assess success or failure of a coach?  That is the first hurdle you will encounter and it won't be the last. 

[Kilworthfox]

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

I was enjoying reading that and you had me nodding my head in agreement................UNTIL i read your final sentence

If apathy exists then its exists because it has been allowed to exist....and that is the result of the wrong messages and culture from the Top down..

 

And if apathy does exist....In what way is our system NOT broken...?!?

 

Our next crop of young players are not going to be challenging themselves or developing as quickly as they might playing in a "lower standard" of U21s football every week.

 

@Ric Flairnailed it for me in his reply in that we invested in world class facilities with the ambition to attract and recruit the very best young talent available......yet "someone" forgot to recruit the very best coaches available that would enable us to fully realise the potential of those talented young players..

As you say, having a snazzy new kit and a shiny new facility wont make the players any better if you put my mum in charge of the coaching...! 

 

I write how it is.

 

I am not trying to convince anyone it should not be different, hence I explain how it is on here to those who take an interest. 

 

For all that's written on here out of passion for the club, it won't or doesn't change a thing without action. 

 

The current board isn't interested in the fans opinions, that seems very clear to me, not that the club marketing department can ever disclose this, so pravda is published instead. 

[Kilworthfox]

1 hour ago, Foxxed said:

Younger age groups are more important?

 

No point in having great coaches at u21s when they're given poorly developed players.

 

 

You are very perspective! 

 

The scope for development occurs less and less with age. 

 

However in football terms the more you work with older players it is seen as more hiaeracialy important. Illogical. 

Edited 9 March 2023 by Kilworthfox

[CyprusFox]

On 07/03/2023 at 15:37, Ric Flair said:

The whole ethos behind the new training ground was to build a dynasty of player improvement from academy ages through to the 1st team.

 

I highly doubt it has happened but if you are going to do what we've done and have the vision for this, then at the forefront of it is significant investment in to the academy where the marginal gains for player improvement can be vast. I've seen no tangible increase in investment in the recruitment of players in the 16-20 age bracket (we missed a huge trick before the transfer rule changes came in to effect at a time many other clubs around us did), no recruitment of new coaches at the age levels (U16/18/21) most obvious to the average fan, there's been some senior strategic posts in the academy that have lay vacant for months / years and overall there's been little development. 

 

The appointment of Paul McGuinness is the one clue that we had certain ideas for the future of the academy but for whatever reason they've barely changed and Paul sadly departed. The sheer size of the operation is clear to see that at some point that is or was the vision.

 

If I could have my way, the number 1 priority of this football club would be to build the best academy in the world. By having that goal, I'd expect improvements to be made.

 

I'd build an ethos where the fundamental plan is to create and develop as many first team players as humanely possible, whether to play for Leicester City or to be sold and the funds reinvested. By having a finely tuned process with the best coaches money can buy, a sizeable chunk of resources available to recruit and run the academy and the reputation of our academy improving as a result I'd expect us to be in an environment of having players coming through. 

 

By doing so, we can further operate the investment model of our club where the 1st team buys gifted young players for low to medium fees, develops them in the first team and carefully sells chosen high value players when the time is right.

 

Those funds are reinvested to attempt to compete with the best of the rest as much as possible and improve the squad overall. This is an extension of the way the academy is operated and the academy compliments the 1st team with providing the replacements for some of those players that are sold, whether that be because they are sought after by bigger clubs, no longer 1st choice for us, etc.

 

The whole process is part of the sustainable long term model our club talks about, now I accept all of that isn't easy and to attempt to do it from a point of power that we've gotten ourselves in to is also difficult. We can't suddenly neglect our stature as being at the time in amongst the top handful of PL clubs, to focus solely on the academy but it could and should have been taken more seriously. We've wasted multiple millions elsewhere that could have been best used in this function and we'd hopefully be already bearing the fruits of this.

Great example of this academy model has to be Ajax

[AjcW]

9 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...if that is the case, then why not promote them to the next level!!!

I wonder if badges come into it when you get to a certain level?

 

One of the heads of the early teens age groups used to be my PE teacher so I doubt he's gone from that to do his coaching badges.

 

I imagine for some it's a nice comfortable spot to be in at 12-18 level and there probably isn't much more required than having a good understanding of the game and how to manage kids!

 

Obviously doesn't mean we can't pick one of them and ask them to get more regulatory qualified, I just wonder if some aren't fussed.

[Kilworthfox]

1 minute ago, AjcW said:

I wonder if badges come into it when you get to a certain level?

 

One of the heads of the early teens age groups used to be my PE teacher so I doubt he's gone from that to do his coaching badges.

 

I imagine for some it's a nice comfortable spot to be in at 12-18 level and there probably isn't much more required than having a good understanding of the game and how to manage kids!

 

Obviously doesn't mean we can't pick one of them and ask them to get more regulatory qualified, I just wonder if some aren't fussed.

Enthusiasm beats experience, and experience beats qualifications. 

 

You are correct if you have higher level football qualifications that will mean you can apply for better paying jobs. Doesn't mean they are good however a football qualification is easy to obtain. You just take the course. 

[AjcW]

7 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Enthusiasm beats experience, and experience beats qualifications. 

 

You are correct if you have higher level football qualifications that will mean you can apply for better paying jobs. Doesn't mean they are good however a football qualification is easy to obtain. You just take the course. 

Oh yeah sorry should have caveated that! 

Certainly wasn't suggesting someone with a course is better than someone without  

 

Just imagine the FA have regs in place that means you have to have a badge or two if you're managing or coaching Under 18's/21's

Edited 9 March 2023 by AjcW

[Kilworthfox]

15 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Oh yeah sorry should have caveated that! 

Certainly wasn't suggesting someone with a course is better than someone without  

 

Just imagine the FA have regs in place that means you have to have a badge or two if you're managing or coaching Under 18's/21's

I believe to have a full time in Acadmey football job you have to have a B license, which is harder to get on to than it is to pass. 

[Foxxed]

27 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

I believe to have a full time in Acadmey football job you have to have a B license, which is harder to get on to than it is to pass. 

Harder to get on a course?

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, CyprusFox said:

Great example of this academy model has to be Ajax

Yes, as are in recent years Feyenoord and AZ (both clubs that Arne Slot has been at and who has developed an astonishing amount of young players)

[Kilworthfox]

2 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Harder to get on a course?

Depends who you work for... 

[LcFc_Smiv]

17 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Depends who you work for... 

Or what your name is and who you know...

[Le Renard]

Imagine a couple of years back, when the academy had just been built, we won the FA cup, and this club was going to be a conveyor belt of talent.  Rodgers was going to leave his lasting legacy throughout the club from top to bottom, all teams were going to play the same way, well that hasn't aged well.  Only Leicester can build the best academy in the world and a couple of years later it seems to be drifting and going nowhere, that seems to be my perception of it at the moment. 

From the outside and afar the academy just looks a bit of a mess, maybe underneath there will be the new growth that the fans hoped for, and in a few years, we'll be singing the praises of our youth teams and homegrown talent, although I wouldn't bet any money on it.  Leicester doesn't do anything in a straight line, we're an 'arse about tit' club.