Development/Youth Squads 2022/2023 Thread - U18/U21

[davieG]

25 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Sadly There isn’t a single 1 of them that is ready to take the premiership by storm, Braybrooke included.

Do any of them have a feel of a 16yr old Rooney, that is what’s required to make it at that age.

Best they can do is a few minutes here and there and then a loan out and learn.

 

I do worry that if Braybrooke gets on for meaningful minutes and flunks it will do more harm than good, they should all have a bit of fight in them but coming up against a seasoned pro who’s got more fight and just stronger in body and mind it could crush him, I’ll say Rooney again just because of the way he was at 16 he had that all round package that ‘X’ factor to cope.

Its great there are some shining lights coming through but I think we should leave it to the professionals to let them grow before we think of them as saviours for our club right here right now.

There's very few Academy Graduates from any club that take the PL by storm most of them are given a few minutes here and there and go unnoticed by anyone other than the fans of the team they play for. 

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, BKLFox said:

Sadly There isn’t a single 1 of them that is ready to take the premiership by storm, Braybrooke included.

Do any of them have a feel of a 16yr old Rooney, that is what’s required to make it at that age.

Best they can do is a few minutes here and there and then a loan out and learn.

 

I do worry that if Braybrooke gets on for meaningful minutes and flunks it will do more harm than good, they should all have a bit of fight in them but coming up against a seasoned pro who’s got more fight and just stronger in body and mind it could crush him, I’ll say Rooney again just because of the way he was at 16 he had that all round package that ‘X’ factor to cope.

Its great there are some shining lights coming through but I think we should leave it to the professionals to let them grow before we think of them as saviours for our club right here right now.

Although he's plateaued a little, Luke Thomas came in and was solid and improved no end in 2020/21. In 2021/22 he was one of our best players in the first half of the season and then since then has tailed off. However he was part of a team that finished 5th and won the FA Cup and wasn't what you'd class as being a Rooney.

 

Braybrooke is good enough, he needs to be on our bench every game and brought on where possible. Next season he will be ready to make a proper impact I'm convinced of it.

[Stadt]

Even 10 minutes here and there is crucial.

 

A) The players get minutes and feels valued 

B) Proves there’s a pathway for all youth players 

C) Puts them in the shop window for loans 

 

Instead Rodgers plays players with 8 months left on their deals. Playing Ward over Iversen is the perfect case study - Iversen’s three years younger and has played more games, instead he opts for the older, worse keeper for whatever reason.

[Foxxed]

Four matches missed.

 

We're two nil up. We're against an awful side. Our central mid is knackered. He's running himself into an injury. We can bring on a defensive midfielder on for 15 minutes. Okay for 10 minutes. For 5 minutes? For a couple of minutes in stoppage time to waste some minutes? Nothing?

 

We have Brendan Rodgers at the end of our academy. What a thorough, thorough, thorough ****.

[The_Rorab]

I do think that today's game 100% confirms that there's no way any academy player gets on the pitch without a spate of injuries at this point.

 

If at 2-0 up, with KDH who was clearly gassed, with basically no time to go Braybrooke can't get on as a late time-wasting, experience-granting sub, then I don't see another circumstance where he would get on the pitch. 

[Ric Flair]

6 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Four matches missed.

 

We're two nil up. We're against an awful side. Our central mid is knackered. He's running himself into an injury. We can bring on a defensive midfielder on for 15 minutes. Okay for 10 minutes. For 5 minutes? For a couple of minutes in stoppage time to waste some minutes? Nothing?

 

We have Brendan Rodgers at the end of our academy. What a thorough, thorough, thorough ****.

Once he'd brought Iheanacho on there was no more subs we could make was there as we'd used our 3 seperate instances. Annoying, KDH looked bollocksed.

[Foxxed]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Once he'd brought Iheanacho on there was no more subs we could make was there as we'd used our 3 seperate instances. Annoying, KDH looked bollocksed.

And what a ****ing waste of a sub that was.

 

I usually look forward to an academy player breaking though—Rodgers is strangling that at birth simply because he’s a ****.

 

There’ll hardly be a better opportunity this season.

[sacreblueits442]

12 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

I don't want them to take the premiership by storm, just be in the mix on the bench and cup games. The confidence the lads who got that FA Cup appearance really propelled them to a new level in the next few PL2 games. If you have youngsters coming off the bench, even for a few minutes, in senior games, it makes them much more attractive to clubs looking for loan players. 

....I felt at the time it was the wrong option to take, where we broke up the U18s who were going well in a cup competition and the group was excelling!!!

We chose to give one or two a brief outing against Watford when keeping these players within their environment made a lot more sense. I could imagine that these players getting the opportunity to play against Watford would have been seen as a milestone, but I feel it shattered the group having to miss such an important cup match in which they had all been on a journey with a big prize ahead of them.

  It was for me a pretty poor judgment by the club, the team's performances dropped off and we are not setting the world alight this season in the U21s. Those players missed out on something that was bigger than a few minutes against Watford.

[Aleksz]

It’s baffling that Braybrooke hasn’t made his debut yet when you think about it. He’s been in and around the first team squad for nearly a year now.

 

Lad must be wondering what he’s got to do to even get a cameo. Will end up getting hoovered up by the Dortmunds or Leipzigs of the the world no doubt and suddenly be “good enough” to play at the top level - it’s what they do.

[Ric Flair]

7 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....I felt at the time it was the wrong option to take, where we broke up the U18s who were going well in a cup competition and the group was excelling!!!

We chose to give one or two a brief outing against Watford when keeping these players within their environment made a lot more sense. I could imagine that these players getting the opportunity to play against Watford would have been seen as a milestone, but I feel it shattered the group having to miss such an important cup match in which they had all been on a journey with a big prize ahead of them.

  It was for me a pretty poor judgment by the club, the team's performances dropped off and we are not setting the world alight this season in the U21s. Those players missed out on something that was bigger than a few minutes against Watford.

I think you're slightly off the mark, the U18's were absolutely flying UNTIL the last gasp FA Cup Youth quarter final defeat away at Man Utd. Until then they were immense and then just nosedive. Don't forget Braybrooke, Nelson and Alves weren't playing U18's except for FA Youth Cup games. 

 

Also Alves performances for U18/U23's immediately improved after his Watford cameo, he was buzzing. 

[sacreblueits442]

40 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I think you're slightly off the mark, the U18's were absolutely flying UNTIL the last gasp FA Cup Youth quarter final defeat away at Man Utd. Until then they were immense and then just nosedive. Don't forget Braybrooke, Nelson and Alves weren't playing U18's except for FA Youth Cup games. 

 

Also Alves performances for U18/U23's immediately improved after his Watford cameo, he was buzzing. 

...the Watford cameo was to the detriment of the youth Cup!!!

  I believe it was a bad call.

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the Watford cameo was to the detriment of the youth Cup!!!

  I believe it was a bad call.

How? 

[Pliskin]

16 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Although he's plateaued a little, Luke Thomas came in and was solid and improved no end in 2020/21. In 2021/22 he was one of our best players in the first half of the season and then since then has tailed off. However he was part of a team that finished 5th and won the FA Cup and wasn't what you'd class as being a Rooney.

 

Braybrooke is good enough, he needs to be on our bench every game and brought on where possible. Next season he will be ready to make a proper impact I'm convinced of it.

Rodgers won’t do it though unless injuries force him to do so. I think he compares every young player to Stirling and if they aren’t as good as him (in his opinion) then he won’t play then unless he absolutely has to. 

[ALC Fox]

Yesterday was the perfect chance to see what Braybrooke can do as part of the first-team squad.

 

There were only a few minutes between the Daka/Mendy sub and the Perez sub. I know things might be more apparent to a Premier League coach than to us mere mortals, but that could've easily been a triple substitution, freeing up that other slot to give Braybrooke some time, and possibly Wormleighton in order to give Castagne a little rest.

 

Maybe a triple sub for a team that was 2-0 up at that point in the game would be too much disruption, but it just felt that those initial two substitution slots were very close together. I'm loathe to criticise the manager too much after what was a decent, albeit nervy, performance. But he could've managed those substitutions better.

[lcfc sheff]

I think if it was 3-0 he’d probably come on. We’ve proven in the last few seasons 2-0 is a dangerous score line; we could’ve easily conceded 2 and then everyone would be livid. First time in a while where I don’t blame Rodgers 

[sacreblueits442]

42 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

How? 

...they were taken out of the cup in order to play in the Watfird game!!!

  There would have been many more options to blood them in a first team experience,  but the youth cup run was a one of situation. 

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...they were taken out of the cup in order to play in the Watfird game!!!

  There would have been many more options to blood them in a first team experience,  but the youth cup run was a one of situation. 

No they weren't. Their best performance of the season came away at Bournemouth in the 5th round (won 5-1) and Braybrooke and Alves were sensational, that game was 28th January 2022, the Watford game was 8th January 2022.

 

We exited the Youth Cup at the end of February.

[sacreblueits442]

4 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

No they weren't. Their best performance of the season came away at Bournemouth in the 5th round (won 5-1) and Braybrooke and Alves were sensational, that game was 28th January 2022, the Watford game was 8th January 2022.

 

We exited the Youth Cup at the end of February.

...had to check back to take a look at this again!!!

  The United game in the Youth Cup was on the 24th of Feb. 2022 and I do recall we were taking players away from that game for first team duties. Alves, Braybrooke and Popov played against Manchester in the cup game, so not too sure what it was that was causing me so much  concern. 

  Anyway, onwards and upwards.

[majaco]

20 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Four matches missed.

 

We're two nil up. We're against an awful side. Our central mid is knackered. He's running himself into an injury. We can bring on a defensive midfielder on for 15 minutes. Okay for 10 minutes. For 5 minutes? For a couple of minutes in stoppage time to waste some minutes? Nothing?

 

We have Brendan Rodgers at the end of our academy. What a thorough, thorough, thorough ****.

 

20 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Once he'd brought Iheanacho on there was no more subs we could make was there as we'd used our 3 seperate instances. Annoying, KDH looked bollocksed.

Braybrooke for KDH would have been ideal.  He could have just got stuck in

[South Shire Fox]

10 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

Yesterday was the perfect chance to see what Braybrooke can do as part of the first-team squad.

 

There were only a few minutes between the Daka/Mendy sub and the Perez sub. I know things might be more apparent to a Premier League coach than to us mere mortals, but that could've easily been a triple substitution, freeing up that other slot to give Braybrooke some time, and possibly Wormleighton in order to give Castagne a little rest.

 

Maybe a triple sub for a team that was 2-0 up at that point in the game would be too much disruption, but it just felt that those initial two substitution slots were very close together. I'm loathe to criticise the manager too much after what was a decent, albeit nervy, performance. But he could've managed those substitutions better.

We were 2 0 up not 5 0, the games not over. Do you remember Brentford? Complacency will kill you at that level

Edited 21 October 2022 by South Shire Fox

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

We were 2 0 up not 5 0, the games not over. Do you remember Brentford? Complacency will kill you at that level

What I would say is, why would we have a complacent mindset for bringing on one of most talented academy players and England U19 captain? It isn't a charity to play youth players, it's serious business and I'd back them to handle it if they are deemed ready.

[Ric Flair]

42 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...had to check back to take a look at this again!!!

  The United game in the Youth Cup was on the 24th of Feb. 2022 and I do recall we were taking players away from that game for first team duties. Alves, Braybrooke and Popov played against Manchester in the cup game, so not too sure what it was that was causing me so much  concern. 

  Anyway, onwards and upwards.

They definitely did that the year before (2020/21) b3cause of covid and injuries, Rodgers just pulled about a dozen (exaggeration) out of the U18s and U23s to train with the first team but not take part in any academy games for a month or two.

[deep blue]

2 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

We were 2 0 up not 5 0, the games not over. Do you remember Brentford? Complacency will kill you at that level

I understand the opinion that "2-0 is a dangerous lead because if the oppo get one back then nerves can set in" but the suggestion here is that he gets, for example, 10 mins.  While it's still possible to concede 2 goals in the last 10 mins, and we have recent history for doing that, it is a rare thing.  You could argue that we were more vulnerable fielding a knackered KDH for those 10 mins than putting on a fresh youngster. 

 

Rodgers has shown a tendency to be ultra-cautious and that has so often turned out bad for us (going too defensive and conceding goals).  At some point you have to be prepared to take a considered risk, with the future in mind;  Rodgers doesn't appear to have the courage to do that.

[ALC Fox]

2 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

We were 2 0 up not 5 0, the games not over. Do you remember Brentford? Complacency will kill you at that level

Oh yeah, I remember.

 

I'm not saying Braybrooke and Wormleighton should've got 30+ minutes each. I'm saying that if Rodgers had made a triple sub instead of a double sub and then one more only a few minutes later, there would've been a slot available later on to potentially give Braybrooke and Wormleighton five minutes or so late on when Leeds were done.

[weller54]

2 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

Oh yeah, I remember.

 

I'm not saying Braybrooke and Wormleighton should've got 30+ minutes each. I'm saying that if Rodgers had made a triple sub instead of a double sub and then one more only a few minutes later, there would've been a slot available later on to potentially give Braybrooke and Wormleighton five minutes or so late on when Leeds were done.

Should have done the same when we were 2-1 up against Tottenham with 45 seconds left.