Recruitment strategy under the spotlight

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Sorry to jump in, but Kasper style of play has massively changed as the statistics relate to a massive drop off in commanding his box since the Title winning year, 

 

Also the season before we signed Vesterguard he was in the top 20 for headed clearances, yet as noted on here people seem to think he can’t jump.

Nerves? Coaching? GK confidence?

It’s actually unfortunate Nuno got pumped from Spurs as they were heavily linked to Vestergaurd in July last year.

 

 

 

 

Indeed… Age plays a part. Lacking confidence in those around you, confidence Etc. To lump it all in Stowell is nonsensical. 

[Guest Col city fan]

46 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

This Babylon Vs Choccy Teapot argument is the highlight of our summer refresh so far, good work lads

To be fair, it’s vintage Babs.

Like a dog with a bloody bone and clearly getting the right steaming hump when people just aren’t listening!

😂

[CrispinLA in Texas]

4 hours ago, Spudulike said:

For a manager to announce a 'shake up' in a way that suggests many comings/goings is usually reserved for clubs trying to stoke up enthusiasm to shift season tickets. LCFC don't have that issue so it makes it all a bit odd. A transfer fest at this stage isn't good timing considering a large portion of pre-season, including an overseas boot camp, has been done. 

 

I think that for once a lack of transfer activity isn't neccessarily a bad thing as it will be almost like having new faces in the team following the unprecedented amount of injuries during Last season. We are due some good fortune on the absentee front and we have a very decent squad when all fit and healthy. I'm optimistic especially without the distraction of Thursday night football. 

 

Bring it on. 

Mmmm.....Maybe your right....we don't have to buy anyone,. 

I guess why should we follow the herd 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑 we're different, that what won us the League.

Hopefully we'll have the last laugh 👍🏼

 

 

[Sly]

1 hour ago, The People's Hero said:

The bizarre thing about the set piece fiasco is that despite how poor we are at defending them, we are also big fans of needlessly giving away corners and free kicks in dangerous areas. If a player is ever looking to buy a foul by someone lunging in when they can't win the ball; we are all in. 

 

The club is clearly quite well run in lots of ways but the set piece thing genuinely has me scratching my head.

 

The rumoured £78k p/w for Bertrand also makes me want to be sick a little bit.

I’d have offered more at left back for half that wage ….. and I’m 40! 

[Dahnsouff]

To: [email protected]

Oxlade-Chamberlain-Chamberlain injured again. - Do not buy him ffs

[JimJams]

It's alright people. We're selling Youri, and bringing in Kokcu. We're selling Cags and bringing in Colwill. We're straight swapping Soumare for Sofiane Diop. Kelechi is off and we're bringing in Madueke. Perez and Praet are off to fund a purchase of Lookman. And Arsenal are willing to loan us Saliba, so we can loan out Vestergaard.

 

We can't shift Hamza though. Let's be realistic here...

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, JimJams said:

It's alright people. We're selling Youri, and bringing in Kokcu. We're selling Cags and bringing in Colwill. We're straight swapping Soumare for Sofiane Diop. Kelechi is off and we're bringing in Madueke. Perez and Praet are off to fund a purchase of Lookman. And Arsenal are willing to loan us Saliba, so we can loan out Vestergaard.

 

We can't shift Hamza though. Let's be realistic here...

Enjoyed, would watch again, hope there is a sequel  

[urban.spaceman]

Current transfer strategy.

 

 

[Bluearmyfox28]

So I have received some information from a friend that is also friends with someone that works very high within the club. I have contemplated for the past few days to share this as I know sometimes “inside information” can get you shot down on this forum. But basically I am going to explain the clubs financial stance. Take it with a pinch of salt if you wish and before anyone asks, no I am not ITK I simply have just been told some information that’s came from someone within the club that it affects the most.

 

A lot of this information is kind of echoing parts that we already know.

 

The club are struggling massively financially with regards to FFP and our wages. Transfer budgets are not a issue, it is simply our wage budget is way to high than what we are bringing in without European football. 
 

IF the club does not manage to offload anyone, the high possibility is that we will not be seeing anyone coming in this window. The club was under the impression that players such as Perez, Hamza, Soumare, Vestegaard etc would be relatively easy to offload for a decent price. The problem the club are finding themselves in is the interest is there & the obvious answer would be to bite the bullet and take less to clear yourself out of the mess. However by doing this the club hurt themselves short term as the fee’s they will be receiving are well below the asking price, which is the current problem they are having. The team have built a good reputation of getting the most out of clubs with regards to selling players and do not want that ruining all in one window. Teams are trying to force the clubs hand into selling for ridiculously low prices as they are aware of the trouble the club is in, for example Torino with Praet.

As things stand, even a contract extension for Youri (unless on the same wage) is not possible as it will put them further in trouble with FFP. Also will help people understand why a player like Cags has not had a new contract offered as its simply not possible & the reason why there is numerous links with players like Kasper.

The likelihood of a big money sale is also well within the realm of possibility so that some transfer budget can be converted over to wages to secure the stability of the club, hence the links to players like Barnes & Maddison.

 

From what I can gather, if we manage to sell some players don’t expect big name signings in to replace as the club will simply be putting themselves in the same situation as they are currently in. IMO it appears the club have been banking on top 7 football in order to not be in a FFP crisis.

 

It doesn’t finish there either. IF the club does not manage to offload a few of the big earning squad players, the likelihood of a big overhaul next summer is a real possibility with the likes of Kasper being out of contract & the club losing them for nothing to simply clear themselves out of this mess.

 

Like I say take it with a pinch of salt if you wish, just thought I would share as there is a lot of confusion currently regarding what is happening behind the scenes.

[FoxesWalk]

4 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

So I have received some information from a friend that is also friends with someone that works very high within the club. I have contemplated for the past few days to share this as I know sometimes “inside information” can get you shot down on this forum. But basically I am going to explain the clubs financial stance. Take it with a pinch of salt if you wish and before anyone asks, no I am not ITK I simply have just been told some information that’s came from someone within the club that it affects the most.

 

A lot of this information is kind of echoing parts that we already know.

 

The club are struggling massively financially with regards to FFP and our wages. Transfer budgets are not a issue, it is simply our wage budget is way to high than what we are bringing in without European football. 
 

IF the club does not manage to offload anyone, the high possibility is that we will not be seeing anyone coming in this window. The club was under the impression that players such as Perez, Hamza, Soumare, Vestegaard etc would be relatively easy to offload for a decent price. The problem the club are finding themselves in is the interest is there & the obvious answer would be to bite the bullet and take less to clear yourself out of the mess. However by doing this the club hurt themselves short term as the fee’s they will be receiving are well below the asking price, which is the current problem they are having. The team have built a good reputation of getting the most out of clubs with regards to selling players and do not want that ruining all in one window. Teams are trying to force the clubs hand into selling for ridiculously low prices as they are aware of the trouble the club is in, for example Torino with Praet.

As things stand, even a contract extension for Youri (unless on the same wage) is not possible as it will put them further in trouble with FFP. Also will help people understand why a player like Cags has not had a new contract offered as its simply not possible & the reason why there is numerous links with players like Kasper.

The likelihood of a big money sale is also well within the realm of possibility so that some transfer budget can be converted over to wages to secure the stability of the club, hence the links to players like Barnes & Maddison.

 

From what I can gather, if we manage to sell some players don’t expect big name signings in to replace as the club will simply be putting themselves in the same situation as they are currently in. IMO it appears the club have been banking on top 7 football in order to not be in a FFP crisis.

 

It doesn’t finish there either. IF the club does not manage to offload a few of the big earning squad players, the likelihood of a big overhaul next summer is a real possibility with the likes of Kasper being out of contract & the club losing them for nothing to simply clear themselves out of this mess.

 

Like I say take it with a pinch of salt if you wish, just thought I would share as there is a lot of confusion currently regarding what is happening behind the scenes.

All entirely plausible, thanks for sharing 

[Guest Col city fan]

6 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

So I have received some information from a friend that is also friends with someone that works very high within the club. I have contemplated for the past few days to share this as I know sometimes “inside information” can get you shot down on this forum. But basically I am going to explain the clubs financial stance. Take it with a pinch of salt if you wish and before anyone asks, no I am not ITK I simply have just been told some information that’s came from someone within the club that it affects the most.

 

A lot of this information is kind of echoing parts that we already know.

 

The club are struggling massively financially with regards to FFP and our wages. Transfer budgets are not a issue, it is simply our wage budget is way to high than what we are bringing in without European football. 
 

IF the club does not manage to offload anyone, the high possibility is that we will not be seeing anyone coming in this window. The club was under the impression that players such as Perez, Hamza, Soumare, Vestegaard etc would be relatively easy to offload for a decent price. The problem the club are finding themselves in is the interest is there & the obvious answer would be to bite the bullet and take less to clear yourself out of the mess. However by doing this the club hurt themselves short term as the fee’s they will be receiving are well below the asking price, which is the current problem they are having. The team have built a good reputation of getting the most out of clubs with regards to selling players and do not want that ruining all in one window. Teams are trying to force the clubs hand into selling for ridiculously low prices as they are aware of the trouble the club is in, for example Torino with Praet.

As things stand, even a contract extension for Youri (unless on the same wage) is not possible as it will put them further in trouble with FFP. Also will help people understand why a player like Cags has not had a new contract offered as its simply not possible & the reason why there is numerous links with players like Kasper.

The likelihood of a big money sale is also well within the realm of possibility so that some transfer budget can be converted over to wages to secure the stability of the club, hence the links to players like Barnes & Maddison.

 

From what I can gather, if we manage to sell some players don’t expect big name signings in to replace as the club will simply be putting themselves in the same situation as they are currently in. IMO it appears the club have been banking on top 7 football in order to not be in a FFP crisis.

 

It doesn’t finish there either. IF the club does not manage to offload a few of the big earning squad players, the likelihood of a big overhaul next summer is a real possibility with the likes of Kasper being out of contract & the club losing them for nothing to simply clear themselves out of this mess.

 

Like I say take it with a pinch of salt if you wish, just thought I would share as there is a lot of confusion currently regarding what is happening behind the scenes.

If true, it just shows the shambles that has been made with this over the past few years.

We have some bang average players on daft money. I still can’t believe what we are paying the likes of Hamza, Amartey, Bertrand et al.

I ask again, who is accountable because, again if true, this is why our transfer activity this summer has become zero.

The only part I found hard to believe is that the club thought we could offload some of these players without a problem?

Given their ability and their wages, it’s far more likely we’d find them very hard to move on.

IF TRUE, our reputation as a club who usually gets this right has gone down the shitter 

But it’s all good because we have some ‘cult heroes’.

I despair..

Edited 26 July 2022 by Col city fan

[-sodapop]

8 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

The problem the club are finding themselves in is the interest is there & the obvious answer would be to bite the bullet and take less to clear yourself out of the mess. However by doing this the club hurt themselves short term as the fee’s they will be receiving are well below the asking price, which is the current problem they are having. The team have built a good reputation of getting the most out of clubs with regards to selling players and do not want that ruining all in one window. Teams are trying to force the clubs hand into selling for ridiculously low prices as they are aware of the trouble the club is in, for example Torino with Praet.

Only thing I don't agree with in this is the reasoning for not selling people at a lower price - surely it's easier to re-establish yourself as a team that wont be caught with their pants down when you're actually in a good position in the next few windows? A short-term hit to our reputation as tough negotiators is worth it to allow us to actually act as tough negotiators in the future.

[Bluearmyfox28]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

If true, it just shows the shambles that has been made with this over the past few years.

We have some bang average players on daft money. I still can’t believe what we are paying the likes of Hamza, Amartey, Bertrand et al.

I ask again, who is accountable because, again if true, this is why our transfer activity this summer has become zero.

The only part I found hard to believe is that the club thought we could offload some of these players without a problem?

Given their ability and their wages, it’s far more likely we’d find them very hard to move on.

IF TRUE, our reputation as a club who usually gets this right has gone down the shitter 

But it’s all good because we have some ‘cult heroes’.

I despair..

I think they thought being a club challenging for the champions league places previous few seasons & playing regular in Europe would bring attention from European leagues to get a “decent price” for them.

 

Like I say please take with a pinch of salt if you wish, just thought I would share to help others understand the situation we are currently in. 

[Bluearmyfox28]

4 minutes ago, -sodapop said:

Only thing I don't agree with in this is the reasoning for not selling people at a lower price - surely it's easier to re-establish yourself as a team that wont be caught with their pants down when you're actually in a good position in the next few windows? A short-term hit to our reputation as tough negotiators is worth it to allow us to actually act as tough negotiators in the future.

Pride is a strange thing…

[Guest ttfn]

9 minutes ago, -sodapop said:

Only thing I don't agree with in this is the reasoning for not selling people at a lower price - surely it's easier to re-establish yourself as a team that wont be caught with their pants down when you're actually in a good position in the next few windows? A short-term hit to our reputation as tough negotiators is worth it to allow us to actually act as tough negotiators in the future.

But if you sell Vestegaard for free (for example) then that’s a £10m hit for FFP purposes this year (assuming he was on a 3 year deal).

 

So if it is an FFP issue (and I don’t think it is - based on our accounts we should have lots of headroom) then that would make things worse, not better.

Edited 26 July 2022 by ttfn

[An Sionnach]

Timothy Castagne has been unlucky with injuries and we could not have allowed for that .However we paid about £25 million for him and he has performed on average to the standard you would expect for that money. We did not take a punt on him , his CV was solid. Whether his value has increased is about market conditions but I don't care . He has come in and done a very sound job for us and we need to look for similar players if and when we recruit.

[-sodapop]

4 minutes ago, ttfn said:

But if you sell Vestegaard for free (for example) then that’s a £10m hit for FFP purposes this year (assuming he was on a 3 year deal).

 

So if it is an FFP issue (and I don’t think it is - based on our accounts we should have lots of headroom) then that would make things worse, not better.

Forgive my ignorance here, but is there any price point where a sale which loses money on the original purchase price doesn't cause problems with FFP?

[Bluearmyfox28]

3 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Thanks for the info.

 

Any idea whether the club are more likely to take multiple hits on lesser assets that we're trying to move on (the likes of the lads in the first paragraph) or take one hit on a bigger asset (say sell Maddison or Barnes for £50m, rather than hold out for Maguire-esque money)?

Seems like all the eggs are in on them getting decent prices for squad players so that it doesn’t affect the short term and hoping the interest from teams like Torino and Monaco for Praet and Soumare pumps up the fee’s they are currently offering.
 

IMO the start of the season is vital on what happens. If we don’t have a great start I would expect panic sales and panic buys. 
 

Personally, it’s not this year that concerns me (even without additional signings) it’s the following year and the huge overhaul that’ll be taking place.

[sacreblueits442]

51 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

I think they thought being a club challenging for the champions league places previous few seasons & playing regular in Europe would bring attention from European leagues to get a “decent price” for them.

 

Like I say please take with a pinch of salt if you wish, just thought I would share to help others understand the situation we are currently in. 

...I would suspect not making Europe and the potential revenue that would come into our coffers, could have been used to offset the ratio of wages to revenue!!!

If Europe is worth £15m then that would be a sizeable chunk to the revenue side, making the wages situation at this moment, not a relevant factor.

  Next summer's offload of players, will have us in a much better place financially, and in respect of FFP.

[coolhandfox]

Not convinced about the reason the club can't offer new contracts to Soyuncu and Tielemans due to FFP. (FFP includes wages and transfer fees).

 

A transfer fee is capitalised on the balance sheet and is written down (amortised) over the length of the player's contract.

 

So Tielemans signed 2019 on a four-year contract for 40m, 40m over a four-year contract is amortised by a club in its accounts to the value of 10m per season.

 

So in this year's account (22/23), there will be 10m remaining on the books for his transfer.

 

When a player signs a new contract, the remaining book value of the transfer fee at the time of the new contract is re-amortised.

 

So if Youri signed a new two-year contract this summer, the remaining 10m would be re-amortised to 5m (22/23), 5m (23/24), creating a saving of 5m per year which could be used to fund a pay raise.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 July 2022 by coolhandfox

[Bluearmyfox28]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Not convinced about the reason the club can't offer new contracts to Soyuncu and Tielemans due to FFP. (FFP includes wages and transfer fees).

 

A transfer fee is capitalised on the balance sheet and is written down (amortised) over the length of the player's contract.

 

So Tielemans signed 2019 on a four-year contract for 40m, 40m over a four-year contract is amortised by a club in its accounts to the value of 10m per season.

 

So in this year's account (22/23), there will be 10m remaining on the books for his transfer.

 

When a player signs a new contract, the remaining book value of the transfer fee at the time of the new contract is re-amortised.

 

So if Youri signed a new two-year contract this summer, the remaining 10m would be re-amortised to 5m (22/23), 5m (23/24), creating a saving of 5m per year which could be used to fund a pay raise.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your basing this on the fact that neither player wants a pay rise which is not the case. I would imagine each player will be looking at around a 50% increase on what they are currently earning.

 

Secondly it’s got nothing to do with their current contract it’s the fact that the other squad wages are far too high and they can’t budge them off the wage bill. Like I stated if they both agreed to carry on with the current wage they are on then extensions would have been already offered.

[Guest Kopfkino]

55 minutes ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Your basing this on the fact that neither player wants a pay rise which is not the case. I would imagine each player will be looking at around a 50% increase on what they are currently earning.

 

Secondly it’s got nothing to do with their current contract it’s the fact that the other squad wages are far too high and they can’t budge them off the wage bill. Like I stated if they both agreed to carry on with the current wage they are on then extensions would have been already offered.

No you miss the point.

 

A player’s transfer fee is amortised across the life of their contract. Therefore Tielemans’ transfer fee, if he cost 40m quid, sits on the books as 10m a year for the 4 years of his contract. If he signed a new contract - say a year extension - the remaining 10m amortisation cost is re-amortised against the new 2 year contract and now sits on the books at 5m a year. This means, from an accounting perspective, you are saving 5m this year on Tielemans that could be used for any wage uplift (albeit you’ve added 5m to your 23/24 accounts).

Everything else you said originally makes sense. FFP clearly a huge problem and an established business cannot have such a high wage to turnover ratio especially when those wages are literally going to be sat doing nothing this year.

 

Idk why we wouldn’t just get rid of some on the cheap like Hamza. Given we’ve failed to get rid of deadwood for any decent money previously it seems daft from the club to think that it will be different now and hamstring ourselves by not getting rid as is your information. I get it more with Vestergaard. We need to get 10m for him as he currently sits on the books as 10m amortised so any less than that and we have to book a loss against him which hurts us even more on FFP (if we get say 12m then it might be a cash loss but it’s a player trading profit for this season of 2m) but Hamza who doesn’t currently carry such a value just needs getting gone for some sort of fee

Edited 26 July 2022 by Kopfkino

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Your basing this on the fact that neither player wants a pay rise which is not the case. I would imagine each player will be looking at around a 50% increase on what they are currently earning.

Nope, if we gave YT a 50k a week pay rise, with the amortisation of his transfer fee we would still be saving 2.4m a season.

 

1 hour ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Secondly it’s got nothing to do with their current contract it’s the fact that the other squad wages are far too high and they can’t budge them off the wage bill. Like I stated if they both agreed to carry on with the current wage they are on then extensions would have been already offered.

The club has been offering YT a new contract for the last 18 months, and he hasn't been offered his existing terms.

 

Wage are not singled out in any FFP rules as they all look at total expenditure on transfers, wages etc.

 

The issue with wages is you can't capitalise them on the balance sheet and amortise them like transfer fees, you are stuck with them.

 

Not a chance the club would let 50m of assets walk out the door next summer for free to save 5m on the wage bill. 

 

Youri is leaving because he doesn't want to sign a new contract, not because the club will not offer him one.

 

 

Edited 26 July 2022 by coolhandfox

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

Your basing this on the fact that neither player wants a pay rise which is not the case. I would imagine each player will be looking at around a 50% increase on what they are currently earning.

 

Secondly it’s got nothing to do with their current contract it’s the fact that the other squad wages are far too high and they can’t budge them off the wage bill. Like I stated if they both agreed to carry on with the current wage they are on then extensions would have been already offered.

....I do agree to a point, but hard to see we would be offering or accepting a 50% salary increase as we would be reinforcing this dilemma!!!

A 25% increase would be more likely where our ceiling would be.

[Ric Flair]

6 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Not convinced about the reason the club can't offer new contracts to Soyuncu and Tielemans due to FFP. (FFP includes wages and transfer fees).

 

A transfer fee is capitalised on the balance sheet and is written down (amortised) over the length of the player's contract.

 

So Tielemans signed 2019 on a four-year contract for 40m, 40m over a four-year contract is amortised by a club in its accounts to the value of 10m per season.

 

So in this year's account (22/23), there will be 10m remaining on the books for his transfer.

 

When a player signs a new contract, the remaining book value of the transfer fee at the time of the new contract is re-amortised.

 

So if Youri signed a new two-year contract this summer, the remaining 10m would be re-amortised to 5m (22/23), 5m (23/24), creating a saving of 5m per year which could be used to fund a pay raise.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's still likely being driven by the 4-5 players we have over and above our 25 man PL squad who are crap and on big wages who we want/need shut of. Now we hopefully loan most of them out worst case but it's still obviously a big concern.