Ward or Iversen?

[filbertway]

48 minutes ago, Sampson said:

This. I don't get people saying "he isn't making errors". I definitely think he looked so sluggish and could've done better on the 2nd.

 

That 2nd goal he is so sluggish, the ball is crossed across the 6 yard box and he just kind of slowly turns 90 degrees with the turning circle of a tank and his arms not even moving, he's also ball watching the entire time and seems to have no idea that Sterling is behind him if the cross comes in. He then doesn't change his positioning given where Sterling is to try and cut out the cross and then doesn't even attempt the dive at either the cross. I think plenty of PL goalkeepers could've stopped that cross or at least would've been aware of Sterling's position in the 6 yard box and would've put themselves in a far better position to cover the cross and Sterling, knowing that it's an almost certain goal if the cross reaches Sterling given his position.

Of course he's ball watching, the ball is in a dangerous place on the box and he needs to be focused on that. If he has to turn around 180 degrees and try and take in information, James can probably hit a shot and it's in the net before he's looked back

 

When the ball is in your box, you focus on that ball, your defenders really have to be aware and doing their job at that stage, if you're looking around you can easily miss a shot or the ball being passed or shifted. You can try and guide the players in your view but if something is happening behind you, a defender behind should be shouting up. Basic communication between the team.

 

It's an excellent ball by James, it's put in with a lot of pace and so accurate that even Sterling couldn't mess it up, a man that has plenty of history of messing up simple chances like that. I'm 99.99% sure the same outcome occurs is Kasper is in goal.

 

Look at Mendy, he's let a shot past him at the near post. I assume you consider him a decent keeper? Very similar situations.

 

 

[StanSP]

37 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Of course he's ball watching, the ball is in a dangerous place on the box and he needs to be focused on that. If he has to turn around 180 degrees and try and take in information, James can probably hit a shot and it's in the net before he's looked back

 

When the ball is in your box, you focus on that ball, your defenders really have to be aware and doing their job at that stage, if you're looking around you can easily miss a shot or the ball being passed or shifted. You can try and guide the players in your view but if something is happening behind you, a defender behind should be shouting up. Basic communication between the team.

 

It's an excellent ball by James, it's put in with a lot of pace and so accurate that even Sterling couldn't mess it up, a man that has plenty of history of messing up simple chances like that. I'm 99.99% sure the same outcome occurs is Kasper is in goal.

 

Look at Mendy, he's let a shot past him at the near post. I assume you consider him a decent keeper? Very similar situations.

 

 

How does the ball get to Sterling in the first place? Considering he's literally on the goalline, how does Ward not intercept it?

 

James whips the cross in, most other keepers collect it or intercept it. Or do something. Ward does nothing.

[Sampson]

41 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Of course he's ball watching, the ball is in a dangerous place on the box and he needs to be focused on that. If he has to turn around 180 degrees and try and take in information, James can probably hit a shot and it's in the net before he's looked back

 

When the ball is in your box, you focus on that ball, your defenders really have to be aware and doing their job at that stage, if you're looking around you can easily miss a shot or the ball being passed or shifted. You can try and guide the players in your view but if something is happening behind you, a defender behind should be shouting up. Basic communication between the team.

 

It's an excellent ball by James, it's put in with a lot of pace and so accurate that even Sterling couldn't mess it up, a man that has plenty of history of messing up simple chances like that. I'm 99.99% sure the same outcome occurs is Kasper is in goal.

 

Look at Mendy, he's let a shot past him at the near post. I assume you consider him a decent keeper? Very similar situations.

 

 

You don’t have to turn 180 degrees, you just have a quick glance around you during build up play. Most keeps do it.

 

The cross goes 3 yards out, right in front of Ward, plenty of keepers stop that cross I think, or at least attempt to if they are aware that Sterling is there 

Edited 28 August 2022 by Sampson

[StanSP]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

You don’t have to turn 180 degrees, you just have a quick glance around you during build up play. Most keeps do it.

 

The cross goes 3 yards out, right in front of Ward, plenty of keepers stop that cross I think, or at least attempt to if they are aware that Sterling is there 

To be honest, you don't even need to know Sterling is there. Any keeper at any decent level should collect it or stop it. 

 

Like how defenders should never pass across goal, keepers shouldn't be letting crosses go when 3 yards out across them. 

[l444ry]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

This. I don't get people saying "he isn't making errors". I definitely think he looked so sluggish and could've done better on the 2nd.

 

That 2nd goal he is so sluggish, the ball is crossed across the 6 yard box and he just kind of slowly turns 90 degrees with the turning circle of a tank and his arms not even moving, he's also ball watching the entire time and seems to have no idea that Sterling is behind him if the cross comes in. He then doesn't change his positioning given where Sterling is to try and cut out the cross and then doesn't even attempt the dive at either the cross. I think plenty of PL goalkeepers could've stopped that cross or at least would've been aware of Sterling's position in the 6 yard box and would've put themselves in a far better position to cover the cross and Sterling, knowing that it's an almost certain goal if the cross reaches Sterling given his position.

Probably because his arms aren't three yards long. Absolute nonsense to blame Ward for the second goal. Was a top class cross and good movement from Sterling. 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, l444ry said:

Probably because his arms aren't three yards long. Absolute nonsense to blame Ward for the second goal. Was a top class cross and good movement from Sterling. 

 

Other goal-keepers arms aren't 6 yards, 12 yards or 15 yards long but I've seen them collect crosses as well  

[filbertway]

30 minutes ago, StanSP said:

How does the ball get to Sterling in the first place? Considering he's literally on the goalline, how does Ward not intercept it?

 

James whips the cross in, most other keepers collect it or intercept it. Or do something. Ward does nothing.

 

27 minutes ago, Sampson said:

You don’t have to turn 180 degrees, you just have a quick glance around you during build up play. Most keeps do it.

 

The cross goes 3 yards out, right in front of Ward, plenty of keepers stop that cross I think, or at least attempt to if they are aware that Sterling is there 

You know what lads. I've watched this goal about 200 times now and I really want to ask Ward what his thoughts are  

 

The keeper in me is always looking for reasons why whatever has happened has happened. I still don't think he can look around and take in the information that you suggest he could @Sampson, not from a glance.

 

However, I think I would be disappointment with myself for not getting to the ball when looking at a replay and how close it passes. The only thing I will say in his defence, is that it passed him at that awkward height where you can't fling a foot at it and it's awkward to dive to. So unless he knew the ball was going to go there and set himself in such a way, it's very hard to make that snap decision.

 

It's a lot easier when you know where the ball is going. At that point, James can either 1) slice a shot towards goal, 2) put in a low ball, 3) stand one up at the far post or 4) cut one back towards the penalty spot. You're processing a lot of thoughts and when things happen at speed, the slightest mis-judgement or loss of concentration and the ball can be in the back of the net.

 

So basically, I can see why it looks poor and disappointing, but at least I hope I can offer a perspective from the opinion of a keeper as why it may not be as simple as it looks on replays. 

 

Ward certainly doesn't strike me as a long term solution in goal, but I do feel he's getting a rough deal from fans who perhaps aren't totally enamored with the idea of him being number 1. Especially when replacing an icon.

Edited 28 August 2022 by filbertway

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

You know what lads. I've watched this goal about 200 times now and I really want to ask Ward what his thoughts are  

 

The keeper in me is always looking for reasons why whatever has happened has happened. I still don't think he can look around and take in the information that you suggest he could @Sampson, not from a glance.

 

However, I think I would be disappointment with myself for not getting to the ball when looking at a replay and how close it passes. The only thing I will say in his defence, is that it passed him at that awkward height where you can't fling a foot at it and it's awkward to dive to. So unless he knew the ball was going to go there and set himself in such a way, it's very hard to make that snap decision.

 

It's a lot easier when you know where the ball is going. At that point, James can either 1) slice a shot towards goal, 2) put in a low ball, 3) stand one up at the far post or 4) cut one back towards the penalty spot. You're processing a lot of thoughts and when things happen at speed, the slightest mis-judgement or loss of concentration and the ball can be in the back of the net.

 

So basically, I can see why it looks poor and disappointing, but at least I hope I can offer a perspective from the opinion of a keeper as why it may not be as simple as it looks on replays. 

 

Ward certainly doesn't strike me as a long term solution in goal, but I do feel he's getting a rough deal from fans who perhaps aren't totally enamored with the idea of him being number 1. Especially when replacing an icon.

I also offered my perspective from the opinion of a goal-keeper too  

 

But I see what you say  

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

I also offered my perspective from the opinion of a goal-keeper too  

 

But I see what you say  

Haha fair play man

 

Like I say, it definitely doesn't look good. Maybe it's the sh*t keeper in me that's looking for excuses

 

It's gonna turn out that @Sampson is Mark Wallington now

 

Edited 28 August 2022 by filbertway

[FoxesWalk]

I’m increasingly afraid that the answer is “neither”, but of the two I’d like to see Iversen given a chance. 

[Clever Fox]

It's quite simple for me. Iversen is on an upward curve Ward is on a downward one.

 

We should stick Iversen in Goal and let him learn this season. We're going to struggle somewhat anyway.

[Mike Oxlong]

The real question is what value does Stowell add to the goalkeeping department ? I’m struggling to think it’s noteworthy 

[iancognito]

9 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

I’m increasingly afraid that the answer is “neither”, but of the two I’d like to see Iversen given a chance. 

He is. In the cups.

 

The same people who were criticising Schmeichel for the last 5 years and saying Ward should get a chance are the ones now criticising Ward and that Iversen should get a chance. It actually wouldn't matter who we signed, they'd be wanting someone else. Iversen being lauded as the reason Preston had an incredible defence last year despite the fact they've had 5 0-0s in 6 games so far.  I'm struggling to think of a faultless "Prem standard" keeper. All of them have made cock-ups in the last few games of some sort. We seem to be doing in-depth analysis on Ward's displays TRYING to find issues. Pulled off two or three saves yesterday and all we're asking is "could he have stopped the cross". No and neither would most other keepers.

[iancognito]

6 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

It's quite simple for me. Iversen is on an upward curve Ward is on a downward one.

 

We should stick Iversen in Goal and let him learn this season. We're going to struggle somewhat anyway.

And when Iversen drops a couple of clangers and loses confidence? You can't keep changing keepers, we had all that before Schmeichel.

 

5 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The real question is what value does Stowell add to the goalkeeping department ? I’m struggling to think it’s noteworthy 

It's not the real question, it's a question barely worth asking. He's been here for 15 years and was an outstanding keeper in his day, in fact he was credited by Kasper in his farewell message as being a huge part of his development here. You'd have no idea if it was noteworthy because you - like all of us - don't have a clue what work is done on the training pitches each day. The fact that every manager since about 2006 has kept him on the staff shows his value.

[Tommy Fresh]

23 minutes ago, iancognito said:

He is. In the cups.

 

The same people who were criticising Schmeichel for the last 5 years and saying Ward should get a chance are the ones now criticising Ward and that Iversen should get a chance. It actually wouldn't matter who we signed, they'd be wanting someone else. Iversen being lauded as the reason Preston had an incredible defence last year despite the fact they've had 5 0-0s in 6 games so far.  I'm struggling to think of a faultless "Prem standard" keeper. All of them have made cock-ups in the last few games of some sort. We seem to be doing in-depth analysis on Ward's displays TRYING to find issues. Pulled off two or three saves yesterday and all we're asking is "could he have stopped the cross". No and neither would most other keepers.

To be fair they have gone and got another decent keeper in on loan. Also Lowe has had half a season and full pre season now after taking over. Style of football could have massively changed this season, leading to those clean sheets.

[MS0204]

Sorry but as the games go by I think it’s screaming out for a change and there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking Iverson in goal for a couple of games. I’ve been picked up before on suggesting it, however as the games go on it’s clear somethings not right. 
 

bottom of the table, let that sink in.. bottom…. 
 

Ward made a couple of great saves yesterday but again another howler. The team is going backwards currently so it can’t get any worse with a change between the sticks..

[Swalshed]

4 hours ago, filbertway said:

Of course he's ball watching, the ball is in a dangerous place on the box and he needs to be focused on that. If he has to turn around 180 degrees and try and take in information, James can probably hit a shot and it's in the net before he's looked back

 

When the ball is in your box, you focus on that ball, your defenders really have to be aware and doing their job at that stage, if you're looking around you can easily miss a shot or the ball being passed or shifted. You can try and guide the players in your view but if something is happening behind you, a defender behind should be shouting up. Basic communication between the team.

 

It's an excellent ball by James, it's put in with a lot of pace and so accurate that even Sterling couldn't mess it up, a man that has plenty of history of messing up simple chances like that. I'm 99.99% sure the same outcome occurs is Kasper is in goal.

 

Look at Mendy, he's let a shot past him at the near post. I assume you consider him a decent keeper? Very similar situations.

 

 

Castagne is the one guilty of ball watching. He has one job to do, which is to mark Sterling and he fails to do it. 

[Mike Oxlong]

1 hour ago, iancognito said:

And when Iversen drops a couple of clangers and loses confidence? You can't keep changing keepers, we had all that before Schmeichel.

 

It's not the real question, it's a question barely worth asking. He's been here for 15 years and was an outstanding keeper in his day, in fact he was credited by Kasper in his farewell message as being a huge part of his development here. You'd have no idea if it was noteworthy because you - like all of us - don't have a clue what work is done on the training pitches each day. The fact that every manager since about 2006 has kept him on the staff shows his value.

Fvck sake. If you are going to come and post on here as the real Mike Stowell you can at least go iancognito   

 

Actually, there’s a lot of bollocks in your post 

 

1.I’m interested in what makes the question worth asking at all in your esteemed opinion.You do say “barely” which means it is worth asking just a teeny weeny bit 

 

2. He’s been here 15 years - so what ? Most of that time has been with Kasper here who whilst a great shot stopper didn’t make progress in his main areas of weakness as referred to below

 

3. He was a great keeper of in his day - are you really relying on this to defend him as a coach ? Glenn Hoddle was a great player with a wand of a right boot but a great manager, coach or pundit he ain’t - although you will almost certainly think otherwise 

 

4. Credited by Kasoer in his farewell message as being a huge part of his development here - no shit sherlock ! I’m actually bowled over that he didn’t say Stowell’s a useless cvnt in his leaving message. Kasper arrived as a great shot stopper and left as one. It’s just a shame that in all those years of “development” he remained dodgy on crosses and corners 

 

5. As to his value, I didn’t see any notable improvement in Kasper under Stowell. He remained good at the things he was already good at and not so good with the weaknesses he arrived with. And I’m not seeing Ward performing in a way that makes me think that he’s benefitting from hours on the training ground with one of the greats of world goalie coaching but maybe that will come ! 

 

6. As you have said, none of us knows what happens in training but it is possible to see progress/lack of progress from what happens on the pitch. Take your head out of your arse and you might just see that things aren’t as rosy as you appear to be implying 

 

7. Hope you’re not reading this now as you have to be up early to take training in a few hours 

[Jimmy]

if you make the call to swap now you need to let Ward find a new club this week if he can, he is finished here if he gets dropped, we can always sign a free agent keeper after the window closes or just go with Smithies as no 2 and have Odunze as 3.

[Clever Fox]

10 hours ago, Jimmy said:

if you make the call to swap now you need to let Ward find a new club this week if he can, he is finished here if he gets dropped, we can always sign a free agent keeper after the window closes or just go with Smithies as no 2 and have Odunze as 3.

You are right of course but we know BR wont drop him, that would mean he made another mistake in signing him.

 

He may improve with more games, The problem is we're losing all of them and that cannot continue.

 

What little I've seen of Iversen he has been impressive, wheras Ward has been 50/50 some good and bad.

[Clever Fox]

13 hours ago, iancognito said:

And when Iversen drops a couple of clangers and loses confidence? You can't keep changing keepers, we had all that before Schmeichel.

 

It's not the real question, it's a question barely worth asking. He's been here for 15 years and was an outstanding keeper in his day, in fact he was credited by Kasper in his farewell message as being a huge part of his development here. You'd have no idea if it was noteworthy because you - like all of us - don't have a clue what work is done on the training pitches each day. The fact that every manager since about 2006 has kept him on the staff shows his value.

I never said anything about changing keepers I'd put him in and leave him there.

He's demonstrated admirably that he can do the job both on loan and last week in the Cup.

Of course he'll make his share of mistakes while improving further. All keepers do, Even Kasper made his own share of mistakes.

He's clearly on the way up and looks confident in Goal, Wheras Ward appears to look unconfortable in Goal.

[Sean2000]

12 hours ago, MS0204 said:

Sorry but as the games go by I think it’s screaming out for a change and there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking Iverson in goal for a couple of games. I’ve been picked up before on suggesting it, however as the games go on it’s clear somethings not right. 
 

bottom of the table, let that sink in.. bottom…. 
 

Ward made a couple of great saves yesterday but again another howler. The team is going backwards currently so it can’t get any worse with a change between the sticks..

We are bottom of the table, and would be no matter who we had in goal. Folks who are obsessing about the GK are looking to fix the wrong problem.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

17 hours ago, Sean2000 said:

We are bottom of the table, and would be no matter who we had in goal. Folks who are obsessing about the GK are looking to fix the wrong problem.

This. Kasper received plenty of brickbats on here last season, especially for his deficiencies at corners, and rightly so. But the guy was not helped by shambolic defending in front of him on many occasions.

 

Personally I just want the best keeper whoever they are, but having Gordon Banks at his best, wouldn't affect the defensive errors we see. I get that it's about confidence to an extent, but that has to be mutual. Kasper would have been rightly confident about Huth, Big Wes, Simpson and Fuchs in 2015/16 and vice versa. Ward, Iversen or Smithies would struggle to have faith in our outfield at the moment and that can have an effect. 

Edited 30 August 2022 by Cadno'r Cymoedd

[funkyrobot]

14 hours ago, iancognito said:

He is. In the cups.

 

The same people who were criticising Schmeichel for the last 5 years and saying Ward should get a chance are the ones now criticising Ward and that Iversen should get a chance. It actually wouldn't matter who we signed, they'd be wanting someone else. Iversen being lauded as the reason Preston had an incredible defence last year despite the fact they've had 5 0-0s in 6 games so far.  I'm struggling to think of a faultless "Prem standard" keeper. All of them have made cock-ups in the last few games of some sort. We seem to be doing in-depth analysis on Ward's displays TRYING to find issues. Pulled off two or three saves yesterday and all we're asking is "could he have stopped the cross". No and neither would most other keepers.

I’ve consistently said that I don’t think Ward is anything other than a loyal number 2 at this level. I desperately want to be proved wrong but the last 4 games hasn’t done anything to change my opinion. 

[adejo92]

12 hours ago, Jimmy said:

if you make the call to swap now you need to let Ward find a new club this week if he can, he is finished here if he gets dropped, we can always sign a free agent keeper after the window closes or just go with Smithies as no 2 and have Odunze as 3.

I think Anstey Nomads were after a new back up keeper.