Relegation

[JimmyC74]

5 minutes ago, Daggers said:

1. I know

2. I know

3. You cut your cloth accordingly…

4. And? This is literally the business model of all football clubs

5. King Power have a moral duty to make good on this

 

Our business model has been unsustainable, our player salaries to turnover was shockingly, unjustifiably high. We either suck it up over seasons or tear that plaster off this summer.
 

People are talking like we haven’t spent most of the club’s history in the second tier, as if it is the harbinger of annihilation. It isn’t, it’s just another division.

Not saying relegation would be the end of the world (just feels that way) but, it will present significant challenges and it may take a few / several years to return.  For every Burnley there is a Stoke / West Brom.

 

 

 

 

[Les-TA-Jon]

30 minutes ago, shailen said:

 

Let's stay positive 

Totally different situation. Back then we had: 

 

1) a manager who recognised we were in a relegation battle and set us up accordingly 

2) a young, hungry squad

3) winning mentality from having been promoted 

4) we were competitive in a lot of games that season, just coming out the wrong side on a lot of results. We never got spanked despite being bottom for months; us and Arsenal only teams that year who never lost by more than 2 goals 

 

[Daggers]

Just now, JimmyC74 said:

Not saying relegation would be the end of the world (just feels that way) but, it will present significant challenges and it may take a few / several years to return.  For every Burnley there is a Stoke / West Brom.

 

 

 

 

This is only a problem to those for whom this is a problem. It isn’t for me. All the things listed would hasten my return to watching matches live again.

[egg_fried_rice]

I’m not bothered about us playing in the second tier - I am worried about the financial situation the club might find themselves in should we be relegated.

[FoxesWalk]

Will we get more than ~4 points from this? Not convinced we will. We probably need at least 9 in order to stay up. 

 

Edited 6 April 2023 by FoxesWalk

[jerry]

14 minutes ago, Daggers said:

This is only a problem to those for whom this is a problem. It isn’t for me. All the things listed would hasten my return to watching matches live again.

Feel similar. For every cloud ..... 🌈.

[shailen]

21 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Totally different situation. Back then we had: 

 

1) a manager who recognised we were in a relegation battle and set us up accordingly 

2) a young, hungry squad

3) winning mentality from having been promoted 

4) we were competitive in a lot of games that season, just coming out the wrong side on a lot of results. We never got spanked despite being bottom for months; us and Arsenal only teams that year who never lost by more than 2 goals 

 

You say that. I remember this forum were saying similar things in terms of us being doomed and there was a similar negativity then. 

 

We are still competitive in most games this season, but we have made some really poor mistakes which stems from a lack of confidence imo. 

[fox_up_north]

I look at the back end of the run before the world cup and I have to believe we can replicate it. Even getting 3 wins and 2 draws out of the last 9 puts you at a 33% win rate, which isn't terrible and would normally be enough to stay up. I have to believe we can do it. 

 

We're currently on 28% of the available points, which, is not far off where we need to be. It's in our hands for now. 

[Rusko187]

Does anyone have the faith that the high-earners in our squad have relegation clauses in? I've come to accept the fact that we are likely relegated, but the thing that concerns me the most is that we probably have a lot of players on big money that we are seriously going to struggle shifting on.

[Leicester_Loyal]

20 minutes ago, Rusko187 said:

Does anyone have the faith that the high-earners in our squad have relegation clauses in? I've come to accept the fact that we are likely relegated, but the thing that concerns me the most is that we probably have a lot of players on big money that we are seriously going to struggle shifting on.

Probably not, the club didn't even comprehend getting relegated until a few days ago, so it's highly unlikely they'd have thought we'd be going down whilst giving out these contracts 18-36 months ago.

[filbertway]

So many winnable games. The bournemouth game will be telling in terms of the set up and desire to try and score goals.

 

We've shown little desire to score goals under Brendan, if Stowell and Sadler continue that we're in trouble.

 

If I see the shackles have been removed then I've every confidence we'll pick up the necessary points in the next 5 games to do the job. They really do need to shake it off quickly though and snap into a new way of playing. 

 

I still find it wild that this team is being talked about as if it's a bunch of league one players that are fighting for their lives. These are talented internationals with the majory being part of a squad that full expects to be in the top half.

 

We need to lose this weak attitude that the players and seemingly fans have swallowed. You're not terrible players, you've been asked to play in a way that almost stunts our strengths and exposes our weaknesses. Run hard, get the ball forwards and take risks in the other teams half, not on the edge of your box.

[Lambert09]

4 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

Will we get more than ~4 points from this? Not convinced we will. We probably need at least 9 in order to stay up. 

 

It might come down to who these points come against. if we lose to bmouth but beat man city that does absolutely nothing for us if it becomes us or them/ 

 

i’d rather beat everton and bmouth than leeds and wolves. Just because my thoughts are that it will come down to Southampton, bmouth forest everton and ourselves.  I’m not totally convinced everton will be in it either. 

 

 

Edited 6 April 2023 by Lambert09

[KP Fox]

Relegation for us could come down to a combination of being wasteful in front of goal, lack of concentration and bad luck. 

 

Take Southampton away - Nacho missed a hattrick of chances and Souttar headed against the bar. On another day that would have gone in off the underside of the bar. That was 3 points lost. 

 

Then Palace away - free kick rebounds off the bar and off Iverson's backside and into the net. On another day that would have rebounded to safety. I am convinced that we would have won that game if that hadn't happened. We were on top in the beginning of that second half. Then of course came the lack of concentration in 4th minute of added time. 

 

Villa at home. Souttar's miss again. On another day would have gone in off the post. Then Wilf's perfect lay off in the 8th minute for their winner. 

 

5 points lost in those 3 games or even arguably 7 points lost. Surely our luck has to change but we can't do anything about that. We can however do something about taking our chances. Our lack of concentration is probably due to the fact that we don't make enough substitutions or early enough in every match. Our players are mentally and physically tired at the latter stages of every match. 

[Mr Weller 2]

Absolutely agree-a defeatist mentality has infected the fans and players and when belief drops, hope disappears. If only someone could trigger a resurgence in belief we still have the players to rescue this.

[LVFox]

I honestly think just 9 points keeps us up. The bottom of the league this year is all absymal, i can't see too many making it to 35.

 

Bournemouth, Everton & Wolves home matches crucial.

Leeds away and West Ham at home as our emergencies.

 

KEEP THE FAITH!!!

[oadby.fox]

5 hours ago, MancFox24 said:

We can all look with hindsight at these signings but I remember listening to people who know alot more about European football than me and they were singing the praises of Daka and Soumare. Bertrand was signed as a squad player, we were forced into signing Vestergaard by Fofana's injury, Perez was overpriced but was playing well for Newcastle.

 

And none of these were bought for ridiculous transfer fees compared to what others have been spending. I think we're the 3rd lowest net spenders in the league since Rodgers came- alot of that is about how much money we were able to get in but we were only able to get that sort of money because we were doing well under Rodgers. Do you think we're getting £80m for Maguire, £70m for Fofana, £50m for Chilwell if we're a lower mid table club?

 

You say contracts wasn't wholly Rodgers fault. That wasn't Rodgers fault at all. He would have had nothing to do with the length or size of contract. The wages we've put some of these players on is ridiculous. Had it been more sensible, Praet, Vestegaard and Soumare wouldn't be at the club any more. 

 

So because of those contracts we've been left with an unbalanced and bloated squad and our finances are in a mess. The squad is stale and we've been forced to rely on certain players playing every game which inevitably leads to more injuries. Every club makes bad transfers, but if you are sensible with the contracts you put them on then it allows you to get them out of the club, take a bit of a hit financially but move on.

 

I also completely disagree with you about the quality of the league this year. I think it's as strong as I can remember it which is why you've got 9 clubs battling for survival rather than 4/5. The 3 promoted clubs all spent big and are much stronger than previous years. 

Yes I should’ve included Soumare within my “to an extent” clause as it wasn’t totally unreasonable and if I’m not mistaken, we did have an opportunity to shift him but turned it down. Whereas Perez and Vesty will leave for free, which is around £45m (+ wages) spent and not much gained.

 

I am not trying to make it the case that the board aren’t culpable at all, especially regarding contracts etc., in fact I said they haven’t helped themselves. For me, though, one of their biggest errors was putting as much faith in Rodgers as they have. That’s poor judgement on their part but they aren’t bad faith actors, I’m not sure the same can be said for Rodgers given his gaslighting of the club and its fans. 
 

You say it wasn’t Rodgers’ fault at all regarding contracts.. but the two worst signings (Bert and Vesty), were signings we now know he explicitly pushed for. We don’t know exactly what went on behind the scenes but Bertrand was a free and so will demand a higher wage than his worth, and we probably had to offer Vestergaard considerably more than he was earning to come and sit on the bench here so that’s just the rub of the green. The board should’ve been more stern in their approach but if Rodgers told them to jump then it appears they asked “how high”. I imagine there would’ve been a number of shortlisted players and that Rodgers had some idea of the cost involved. So he has to take some blame over insisting on certain players whenever they turn out to be duds and cheaper, more effective solutions were available. To say he wasn’t backed in spite of this just doesn’t add up to me, and I find it hard to imagine that the club would want to flush money down the drain. I think they put a lot of weight on Rodgers’ opinion and this cost them. 

 

This brings us to the point that Vesty was just a stop-gap. I don’t think that this is really the case given that Rodgers was in touch with him a year before we actually signed him. Even if he was signed as cover, he has not been made use of at all and that’s simply maddening when you have a permanently crocked back line. Even interpreting the situation charitably, you’d say that he hasn’t managed the players he has at his disposal to great effect. But the reality is that he’s pushed for these players. Soumare and Daka I can handle as we can recoup some of our losses but Bert and Vesty are unforgivable. 
 

Finally, I’m not sure if I agree that we wouldn’t be able to sell players for big money without Rodgers being here. We got £60m for Mahrez when we were doing nothing in the league and even got our money back on a player like Musa. Maguire was expensive because he was relatively young and because of the English premium (Grealish was £100m!). Fofana was sold the year we were pretty awful in the league with many saying that we would be relegation candidates this year, so there doesn’t seem to be a correlation to league position/form at all. Individual talent, age and contract length all played a much bigger role.

 

Will also have to agree to disagree on league quality this year. Yes, newly promoted sides have surprised us this season but I don’t know why that suggests that the quality is on average higher? If anything, the gap between the championship and prem has widened in recent years so the fact that so many established clubs sit below them should point in the opposite direction. Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U and Spurs have all had pretty crap spells (some worse than others) and so many teams have underperformed relative to expectations which is why so many are up for relegation. I would get it if I was tuning in to games and seeing that the performances were so good that many teams were simply cancelling each other out but that’s not been the case. Even with the points we have picked up, we only did so because the opposition failed to turn up not because we simply out classed them.

[Buzzell]

5 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

Will we get more than ~4 points from this? Not convinced we will. We probably need at least 9 in order to stay up. 

 

Looking at them games you would hope we would be looking to claim maximum points at all home games, including West Ham last game of the season. It truly is in our hands.

[sdb]

49 minutes ago, LVFox said:

I honestly think just 9 points keeps us up. The bottom of the league this year is all absymal, i can't see too many making it to 35.

 

Bournemouth, Everton & Wolves home matches crucial.

Leeds away and West Ham at home as our emergencies.

 

KEEP THE FAITH!!!

Can you imagine our players getting anything away from home in front of a half interested crowd. They'll melt into a sludge by half time. Love the optimism though!

[Simoken]

1 hour ago, Mr Weller 2 said:

Absolutely agree-a defeatist mentality has infected the fans and players and when belief drops, hope disappears. If only someone could trigger a resurgence in belief we still have the players to rescue this.

careful, iv been trying to turn that frown upside down all season here, got nothing but abuse.

[markko]

Beat those around us It is simple. Beat the teams in our mini league and we will be fine. 

[Fox92]

13 minutes ago, sdb said:

Can you imagine our players getting anything away from home in front of a half interested crowd. They'll melt into a sludge by half time. Love the optimism though!

Yep, these players will melt at Leeds.

[MancFox24]

1 hour ago, oadby.fox said:

Yes I should’ve included Soumare within my “to an extent” clause as it wasn’t totally unreasonable and if I’m not mistaken, we did have an opportunity to shift him but turned it down. Whereas Perez and Vesty will leave for free, which is around £45m (+ wages) spent and not much gained.

 

I am not trying to make it the case that the board aren’t culpable at all, especially regarding contracts etc., in fact I said they haven’t helped themselves. For me, though, one of their biggest errors was putting as much faith in Rodgers as they have. That’s poor judgement on their part but they aren’t bad faith actors, I’m not sure the same can be said for Rodgers given his gaslighting of the club and its fans. 
 

You say it wasn’t Rodgers’ fault at all regarding contracts.. but the two worst signings (Bert and Vesty), were signings we now know he explicitly pushed for. We don’t know exactly what went on behind the scenes but Bertrand was a free and so will demand a higher wage than his worth, and we probably had to offer Vestergaard considerably more than he was earning to come and sit on the bench here so that’s just the rub of the green. The board should’ve been more stern in their approach but if Rodgers told them to jump then it appears they asked “how high”. I imagine there would’ve been a number of shortlisted players and that Rodgers had some idea of the cost involved. So he has to take some blame over insisting on certain players whenever they turn out to be duds and cheaper, more effective solutions were available. To say he wasn’t backed in spite of this just doesn’t add up to me, and I find it hard to imagine that the club would want to flush money down the drain. I think they put a lot of weight on Rodgers’ opinion and this cost them. 

 

This brings us to the point that Vesty was just a stop-gap. I don’t think that this is really the case given that Rodgers was in touch with him a year before we actually signed him. Even if he was signed as cover, he has not been made use of at all and that’s simply maddening when you have a permanently crocked back line. Even interpreting the situation charitably, you’d say that he hasn’t managed the players he has at his disposal to great effect. But the reality is that he’s pushed for these players. Soumare and Daka I can handle as we can recoup some of our losses but Bert and Vesty are unforgivable. 
 

Finally, I’m not sure if I agree that we wouldn’t be able to sell players for big money without Rodgers being here. We got £60m for Mahrez when we were doing nothing in the league and even got our money back on a player like Musa. Maguire was expensive because he was relatively young and because of the English premium (Grealish was £100m!). Fofana was sold the year we were pretty awful in the league with many saying that we would be relegation candidates this year, so there doesn’t seem to be a correlation to league position/form at all. Individual talent, age and contract length all played a much bigger role.

 

Will also have to agree to disagree on league quality this year. Yes, newly promoted sides have surprised us this season but I don’t know why that suggests that the quality is on average higher? If anything, the gap between the championship and prem has widened in recent years so the fact that so many established clubs sit below them should point in the opposite direction. Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U and Spurs have all had pretty crap spells (some worse than others) and so many teams have underperformed relative to expectations which is why so many are up for relegation. I would get it if I was tuning in to games and seeing that the performances were so good that many teams were simply cancelling each other out but that’s not been the case. Even with the points we have picked up, we only did so because the opposition failed to turn up not because we simply out classed them.

But you can't look at the Vestegaard and Bertrand transfers/contracts in isolation. It's the wage structure as a whole. If we're paying £50k a week for a squad player then of course an agent of a potential signing is going to be asking for similar. And that wage structure is entirely the responsibility of the board, it has nothing to do with the manager. Of course those 2 signings were duds, but we can take a hit on those if they're on reasonable contracts. I have no idea how insistent Rodgers was on them, I don't know where you've got the information he was. But even if he was, the moment their agents starts asking for ridiculous contracts, you just move on to other targets. 

 

Just look at the losses we're recording year on year. We're in a really bad position financially. This isn't because of transfer fees- like I said earlier, we're one of the lowest net spenders in the league. The financial mismanagement at the club is unbelievable and alot of those responsible will have been happy to use Rodgers as a shield. And I'm afraid alot of our fanbase has played along with that. I hope that at least now he's gone people will start turning their attention to the people who have actually got us in this mess

 

 

[reynard]

2 hours ago, markko said:

Beat those around us It is simple. Beat the teams in our mini league and we will be fine. 

I'm afraid we couldn't even beat an egg right now.

[sdb]

7 minutes ago, reynard said:

I'm afraid we couldn't even beat an egg right now.

I feel like some of the criticism being aimed at the players is going OTT now to be honest. I'd say almost half the first team squad could beat an egg with a top class egg beating coach offering some personal advice. Danny Ward would probably drop the bowl and juggle with the slime that fell on the floor. That'd arguably do the job and he's the worst player on our books 🤷

 

So ****ing negative, some of you lot 

[HybridFox]

7 hours ago, FoxesWalk said:

Will we get more than ~4 points from this? Not convinced we will. We probably need at least 9 in order to stay up. 

 

The Wolves and Everton home games are huge and ones we should absolutely be taking 6 from. The next 3 are a bit of a free hit let's see.

 

Desperately hoping we get the win this weekend otherwise relying on a freak result at Man City and Leeds where we could crumble under the atmosphere

 

The odds are stacked against us but the longer we dither in getting the interim in, I fear we'll continue to forfeit points