Relegation

[Guest glasgowfox]

On 05/09/2022 at 22:25, jim5000 said:

Easier said than done if you live 150 miles away.

Try a 600 mile round trip with a season ticket.....but we all have different circumstances

[RedSoxUK]

34 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

I don't know guys, maybe I'm fully deluded but if a team with 4 Belgium international players, one of the best "10"s in the PL, some talented young FBs and strikers that can easily score manages to get relegated, it will only be down to the manager and the board. Yes our defense is shaky but it will be a huge "achievement" to go down with this kind of team. 

It really doesn't matter if we have Messi, Neymar and Lewandowski upfront because  we have Danny Ward in goal, Ndidi / Amartey CBs, Thomas who should really be on loan in the Championship, and an aged Evans as our defence. With an unknown entity in Faes which could go either way (not going to be a Fofana,) and Castagne who is the only one showing actual ability now.

 

The board and manager will be at fault for not properly identifying Improvements at the back, I doubt our attack will cost us. It's 100% our defence, it is championship tier right now and it's not an exaggeration. We know it, they know it and it's embarrassing.

[cropstonfox]

19 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

You do realise how this stuff works?

 

It's about weight of money place on a outcome, that is what changes the odds, more money placed on one outcome, its odds come in and the others drift.

 

It's nothing to do with what the bookies think.

Yes understand that a lot of money on us shortens the odds.

Why would punters be backing us for relegation?

 

[coolhandfox]

22 minutes ago, cropstonfox said:

Yes, understand that a lot of money on us shortens the odds.

Why would punters be backing us for relegation?

 

Because we are bottom and our odds don't reflect that yet, punters look for value in the odds. 

 

 

[Guest Col city fan]

Have I got this betting malarkey completely wrong?

Bookies odds aren’t SOLELY based on betting patterns are they? Bookmakers will also provide their own odds on the whole range of markets.

To take ‘corners’ as an example. Bookies won’t surely only decide the odds on numbers of corners in any given game, based on how many people are betting on corners?

🤷‍♂️
I know that odds will shift based on betting patterns, but I believe they are generally set by the bookmakers. If they weren’t, Bet 365 wouldn’t employ hundreds of statisticians 

The dramatically shortened odds on Leicester being relegated won’t only be based on the numbers of punters making this bet. The bookies will shorten the odds because they believe it could happen.

Edited 12 September 2022 by Col city fan

[jim5000]

Bookie odds or no bookie odds, I think we can all agree we’re getting relegated this season.

[kingkisnorbo]

Before I was touting it with “there’s no way we can go down” in the back of my head but… I’m genuinely convinced that we will be relegated this season.

 

The board just will not act and it is going to kill us. I’d expect a total u-turn from many on King Power if/when it does happen. 

[brucey]

4 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Have I got this betting malarkey completely wrong?

Bookies odds aren’t SOLELY based on betting patterns are they? Bookmakers will also provide their own odds on the whole range of markets.

To take ‘corners’ as an example. Bookies won’t surely only decide the odds on numbers of corners in any given game, based on how many people are betting on corners?

🤷‍♂️
I know that odds will shift based on betting patterns, but I believe they are generally set by the bookmakers. If they weren’t, Bet 365 wouldn’t employ hundreds of statisticians 

The dramatically shortened odds on Leicester being relegated won’t only be based on the numbers of punters making this bet. The bookies will shorten the odds because they believe it could happen.

Bookies set the initial prices, all movement after that would be based on betting patterns. The prices will all converge on the average price in the betting exchanges which is purely market/punter driven.

[jim5000]

1 hour ago, brucey said:

Bookies set the initial prices, all movement after that would be based on betting patterns. The prices will all converge on the average price in the betting exchanges which is purely market/punter driven.

Bookie odds or no bookie odds, I think we can all agree we’re getting relegated this season.

[Dan LCFC]

Relegation rests largely at this point on how long we let Rodgers kill our season for. I think the squad is capable of pulling well clear - infact I still think being properly coached it's capable of the top half (albeit that would require Iversen being decent and he's an unknown really). We're very likely to have 1 point after 7 games. I dread to think how many sides have been in that position and survived from it - can only think of Palace under De Boer/Hodgson and Spurs under Ramos/Redknapp that were comparable. Both of those two pulled quite significantly clear. I'd like to think given there is still quality in this side that we'll be more like one of those.

 

Make no mistake though the longer they leave it the more they frankly deserve relegation. I think not sacking him after that Brighton debacle is up there with the most insane decision made from the club. It could not be more obvious that a change needs to be made.

 

I think if you were honest to yourself about our performances last season though this shouldn't come as a huge surprise. We played well about 3/4 times all season. The vast majority of our wins were tight games decided by virtue of our superior quality in attacking positions. A Maddison / Barnes / Tielemans wonderstrike. We were frequently not creating chances and frequently allowing loads against us. This all points to a side being badly coached, but people just blamed injuries.

 

These paper over the cracks wins were exactly that. We'd have been so much better with not winning those three late games so peoples eyes were actually opened. Maybe the club would've taken the action that I thought was fairly obviously needed.

 

What's worrying is their confidence is so obviously shot and they just seem totally incapable of winning a game. There's a mental block on them winning a game. 2-0 up against Brentford and they totally capitulate. Took the lead at Brighton and capitulated to one of the most embarrassing displays in years. Were a man up against Chelsea and capitulated. Got back into the game twice against Arsenal and capitulated immediately. The worst of all though - taking the lead at home to the youngest XI named in a PL game in 5 years in Southampton, and yet it's us who lose our heads, not their team of teenagers.

 

Rodgers is to blame. They say teams often eventually reflect the personality of their manager. Well we've seen the way he's pathetically handled the last few months of genuine adversity (largely caused by his own errors) so the fact we frequently capitulate should be absolutely no surprise to anybody.

[Guy]

]

31 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Relegation rests largely at this point on how long we let Rodgers kill our season for. I think the squad is capable of pulling well clear - infact I still think being properly coached it's capable of the top half (albeit that would require Iversen being decent and he's an unknown really). We're very likely to have 1 point after 7 games. I dread to think how many sides have been in that position and survived from it - can only think of Palace under De Boer/Hodgson and Spurs under Ramos/Redknapp that were comparable. Both of those two pulled quite significantly clear. I'd like to think given there is still quality in this side that we'll be more like one of those.

 

Make no mistake though the longer they leave it the more they frankly deserve relegation. I think not sacking him after that Brighton debacle is up there with the most insane decision made from the club. It could not be more obvious that a change needs to be made.

 

I think if you were honest to yourself about our performances last season though this shouldn't come as a huge surprise. We played well about 3/4 times all season. The vast majority of our wins were tight games decided by virtue of our superior quality in attacking positions. A Maddison / Barnes / Tielemans wonderstrike. We were frequently not creating chances and frequently allowing loads against us. This all points to a side being badly coached, but people just blamed injuries.

 

These paper over the cracks wins were exactly that. We'd have been so much better with not winning those three late games so peoples eyes were actually opened. Maybe the club would've taken the action that I thought was fairly obviously needed.

 

What's worrying is their confidence is so obviously shot and they just seem totally incapable of winning a game. There's a mental block on them winning a game. 2-0 up against Brentford and they totally capitulate. Took the lead at Brighton and capitulated to one of the most embarrassing displays in years. Were a man up against Chelsea and capitulated. Got back into the game twice against Arsenal and capitulated immediately. The worst of all though - taking the lead at home to the youngest XI named in a PL game in 5 years in Southampton, and yet it's us who lose our heads, not their team of teenagers.

 

Rodgers is to blame. They say teams often eventually reflect the personality of their manager. Well we've seen the way he's pathetically handled the last few months of genuine adversity (largely caused by his own errors) so the fact we frequently capitulate should be absolutely no surprise to anybody.

If the majority of last season (particularly after the embarrassment of the FA Cup defeat to Forest of all teams), wasn't a wake up call towards this dismal early season so far then I don't know what else is! You're right in saying that mental capitulation and lack of collective confidence has been our total undoing so far this season (in defence and even spreading to the likes of Vardy and Maddison further up the pitch) and if that trend continues in the next 4-5 crucial games that we may not win any of, which sees us rooted to the bottom of the league -  and then the board are STILL in a state of indecision in not acting over Rodgers - then we're surely doomed and it is then most likely too late to do anything constructive about it, whether we still have a very good midfield/forward line or not! This team is not of the same survival calibre of the Great Escape squad under Pearson if it comes down to that as the season continues on. Maybe things will be different in a month's time if results are positive between now and then but at the moment it's hard to see it!  

Edited 12 September 2022 by Guy

[Scotch]

15 hours ago, glasgowfox said:

Try a 600 mile round trip with a season ticket.....but we all have different circumstances

I'm the same. 336 miles one way, it's just not feasible to get to get very often with a young family sucking my wallet dry. 

[LCFCJohn]

6 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Relegation rests largely at this point on how long we let Rodgers kill our season for. I think the squad is capable of pulling well clear - infact I still think being properly coached it's capable of the top half (albeit that would require Iversen being decent and he's an unknown really). We're very likely to have 1 point after 7 games. I dread to think how many sides have been in that position and survived from it - can only think of Palace under De Boer/Hodgson and Spurs under Ramos/Redknapp that were comparable. Both of those two pulled quite significantly clear. I'd like to think given there is still quality in this side that we'll be more like one of those.

 

Make no mistake though the longer they leave it the more they frankly deserve relegation. I think not sacking him after that Brighton debacle is up there with the most insane decision made from the club. It could not be more obvious that a change needs to be made.

 

I think if you were honest to yourself about our performances last season though this shouldn't come as a huge surprise. We played well about 3/4 times all season. The vast majority of our wins were tight games decided by virtue of our superior quality in attacking positions. A Maddison / Barnes / Tielemans wonderstrike. We were frequently not creating chances and frequently allowing loads against us. This all points to a side being badly coached, but people just blamed injuries.

 

These paper over the cracks wins were exactly that. We'd have been so much better with not winning those three late games so peoples eyes were actually opened. Maybe the club would've taken the action that I thought was fairly obviously needed.

 

What's worrying is their confidence is so obviously shot and they just seem totally incapable of winning a game. There's a mental block on them winning a game. 2-0 up against Brentford and they totally capitulate. Took the lead at Brighton and capitulated to one of the most embarrassing displays in years. Were a man up against Chelsea and capitulated. Got back into the game twice against Arsenal and capitulated immediately. The worst of all though - taking the lead at home to the youngest XI named in a PL game in 5 years in Southampton, and yet it's us who lose our heads, not their team of teenagers.

 

Rodgers is to blame. They say teams often eventually reflect the personality of their manager. Well we've seen the way he's pathetically handled the last few months of genuine adversity (largely caused by his own errors) so the fact we frequently capitulate should be absolutely no surprise to anybody.

Couldn’t have put it better, especially the mental block winning games. This is why I think we will not win again under him no matter how long he is left purely as we have tried all ways to win and blow it.

 

Also agree re the personality of the manager showing through which is why I think we’ll be ok if we bin him and get someone in with a winning mentality and positive attitude.

[Leeds Fox]

8 hours ago, brucey said:

Bookies set the initial prices, all movement after that would be based on betting patterns. The prices will all converge on the average price in the betting exchanges which is purely market/punter driven.

Many factors other than betting patterns will cause the odds to change. 
 

Upturn/downturn in form

Change of manager

Long term injury to key players 

Incomings/Outgoings

Change of form of other teams

 

Of course, in turn, these factors will likely dictate betting patterns too. 

[J. James]

I can really see this awful scenario happening.

The board wont sack him because they believe his saccharine words.

He keeps playing the Rodgers way = we lose.

Come January there is a mass exodus/transfer requests of dissatisfied/out of favour players (our best) leaving us even weaker.

He then jumps ship when its too late so that he doesn't have "relegated" against his name, departing with his usual BS of how its others fault not his.

Our results then improve but too late to save us.

 

Rodgers is a rich man and frankly doesn't need a pay off so his Teflon image will be more valuable to him than money.

He will walk away when he's royally stuffed us.

And be employed by some other "ready - to - believe - the - hype" club.

 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

5 minutes ago, J. James said:

I can really see this awful scenario happening.

The board wont sack him because they believe his saccharine words.

He keeps playing the Rodgers way = we lose.

Come January there is a mass exodus/transfer requests of dissatisfied/out of favour players (our best) leaving us even weaker.

He then jumps ship when its too late so that he doesn't have "relegated" against his name, departing with his usual BS of how its others fault not his.

Our results then improve but too late to save us.

 

Rodgers is a rich man and frankly doesn't need a pay off so his Teflon image will be more valuable to him than money.

He will walk away when he's royally stuffed us.

And be employed by some other "ready - to - believe - the - hype" club.

 

I’d like to think Rodgers reputation has been shot to pieces. Not so long ago he could have got a job in the greedy 6, but now he’s more a Villa or an Everton guy if we get shot. You certainly don’t get Robbie Savage babbling “Brendan Rodgers - elite manager” anymore on the radio. In 5 years time he’ll be on the same trajectory as a Mark Hughes or Alan Pardew.

[Gamble92]

22 hours ago, RedSoxUK said:

It really doesn't matter if we have Messi, Neymar and Lewandowski upfront because  we have Danny Ward in goal, Ndidi / Amartey CBs, Thomas who should really be on loan in the Championship, and an aged Evans as our defence. With an unknown entity in Faes which could go either way (not going to be a Fofana,) and Castagne who is the only one showing actual ability now.

 

The board and manager will be at fault for not properly identifying Improvements at the back, I doubt our attack will cost us. It's 100% our defence, it is championship tier right now and it's not an exaggeration. We know it, they know it and it's embarrassing.

If he hadn't so badly mismanaged Soyuncu we would have the options of him and Evans or him and Faes. With Justin and Castagne either side id be confident our attack would score enough goals to give us a decent finish like that. 

 

As things stand we are now totally reliant on Faes being the next Cannavaro. 

[Guest Col city fan]

9 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Relegation rests largely at this point on how long we let Rodgers kill our season for. I think the squad is capable of pulling well clear - infact I still think being properly coached it's capable of the top half (albeit that would require Iversen being decent and he's an unknown really). We're very likely to have 1 point after 7 games. I dread to think how many sides have been in that position and survived from it - can only think of Palace under De Boer/Hodgson and Spurs under Ramos/Redknapp that were comparable. Both of those two pulled quite significantly clear. I'd like to think given there is still quality in this side that we'll be more like one of those.

 

Make no mistake though the longer they leave it the more they frankly deserve relegation. I think not sacking him after that Brighton debacle is up there with the most insane decision made from the club. It could not be more obvious that a change needs to be made.

 

I think if you were honest to yourself about our performances last season though this shouldn't come as a huge surprise. We played well about 3/4 times all season. The vast majority of our wins were tight games decided by virtue of our superior quality in attacking positions. A Maddison / Barnes / Tielemans wonderstrike. We were frequently not creating chances and frequently allowing loads against us. This all points to a side being badly coached, but people just blamed injuries.

 

These paper over the cracks wins were exactly that. We'd have been so much better with not winning those three late games so peoples eyes were actually opened. Maybe the club would've taken the action that I thought was fairly obviously needed.

 

What's worrying is their confidence is so obviously shot and they just seem totally incapable of winning a game. There's a mental block on them winning a game. 2-0 up against Brentford and they totally capitulate. Took the lead at Brighton and capitulated to one of the most embarrassing displays in years. Were a man up against Chelsea and capitulated. Got back into the game twice against Arsenal and capitulated immediately. The worst of all though - taking the lead at home to the youngest XI named in a PL game in 5 years in Southampton, and yet it's us who lose our heads, not their team of teenagers.

 

Rodgers is to blame. They say teams often eventually reflect the personality of their manager. Well we've seen the way he's pathetically handled the last few months of genuine adversity (largely caused by his own errors) so the fact we frequently capitulate should be absolutely no surprise to anybody.

Good post but tbf we mentioned the ‘mental block’ thing probs 18 months ago so it’s not new. 
It’s clear as crystal. Rodgers needs to feel he’s ‘the boss’ and is in full control. His players are ‘nice guys’. Lads who won’t argue with him, rock the boat or throw their toys out the pram. I’m afraid I must mention him again… Dan Amartey is a perfect example of this. Nice guy, happy to be a ‘squad player’ but is being played in front of Cags, seemingly because he’s not giving Rodgers any grief. But he’s not good enough…!

We need a change of manager who has got the bollox to recruit stronger characters into the squad and to be able to manage them.

We have so few ‘leaders’ on the pitch and the one we did have, we’ve just sold to Nice.

We won’t overcome the mental block issue with Rodgers in charge because he doesn’t allow players who are happy to give each other a metaphorical kick up the arris. Until that changes, I fear more of the same.

But it’s no surprise.. Rodgers has done exactly the same thing everywhere he’s been. I’m sure I read that he basically decimated the Liverpool squad before Klopp came in and it needed time to turn it around.

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I’d like to think Rodgers reputation has been shot to pieces. Not so long ago he could have got a job in the greedy 6, but now he’s more a Villa or an Everton guy if we get shot. You certainly don’t get Robbie Savage babbling “Brendan Rodgers - elite manager” anymore on the radio. In 5 years time he’ll be on the same trajectory as a Mark Hughes or Alan Pardew.

All I ever hear on Talksport from most pundits and especially most callers is pretty much backing what Rodgers has always said regarding himself.

 

They did a phone in on Goldstein's show only a couple of weeks ago and the question was what manager outside the top 6 would you want for your top 6 club. Man City fans were saying Rodgers. 

 

Even when we were doing well my one biggest criticism of him was the spin he would put on everything. No one was aware of the quality of our team just before he arrived so I'll forgive that. But the fact the amount he's spent was 6th/7th highest on top of him being the 3rd/4th best paid manager was always overlooked in favour of look what he's doing with little old Leicester. 

 

I lost patience with it after the shocking season we had last year being covered up by the whole first euro semi and 8th place bullshit. Now the spin has gone out of control and its just very clear this isn't about us or putting our club first and it should never be that way. 

[ARM1968]

If Bodgers isn’t gone within the month we will be too far gone to resuscitate. Simple as that. Rot sets in fast and currently we are on the verge of total blight. 

[Guest glasgowfox]

10 hours ago, Scotch said:

I'm the same. 336 miles one way, it's just not feasible to get to get very often with a young family sucking my wallet dry. 

Feel your pain...its about £450 a game due to flights, hotels etc

[Dan LCFC]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Good post but tbf we mentioned the ‘mental block’ thing probs 18 months ago so it’s not new. 
It’s clear as crystal. Rodgers needs to feel he’s ‘the boss’ and is in full control. His players are ‘nice guys’. Lads who won’t argue with him, rock the boat or throw their toys out the pram. I’m afraid I must mention him again… Dan Amartey is a perfect example of this. Nice guy, happy to be a ‘squad player’ but is being played in front of Cags, seemingly because he’s not giving Rodgers any grief. But he’s not good enough…!

We need a change of manager who has got the bollox to recruit stronger characters into the squad and to be able to manage them.

We have so few ‘leaders’ on the pitch and the one we did have, we’ve just sold to Nice.

We won’t overcome the mental block issue with Rodgers in charge because he doesn’t allow players who are happy to give each other a metaphorical kick up the arris. Until that changes, I fear more of the same.

But it’s no surprise.. Rodgers has done exactly the same thing everywhere he’s been. I’m sure I read that he basically decimated the Liverpool squad before Klopp came in and it needed time to turn it around.

I mentioned it as early as December 2019 and was sure of it after Villa in January 2020. It's one of those things that gets worse and worse over time too. Belief just evaporates under this bloke. They don't seem to have the mental capacity to win a single game. They've been in some excellent positions to get a win already this season and blown the lot of them spectacularly.

[J. James]

4 hours ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I’d like to think Rodgers reputation has been shot to pieces. Not so long ago he could have got a job in the greedy 6, but now he’s more a Villa or an Everton guy if we get shot. You certainly don’t get Robbie Savage babbling “Brendan Rodgers - elite manager” anymore on the radio. In 5 years time he’ll be on the same trajectory as a Mark Hughes or Alan Pardew.

You see l think that his propaganda is so effective, his blame shifting so complete that others cannot see his incompetence, inflexibility and pigheadedness.

The starting point with Rodgers seems to be "he's a great manager" with no room for any doubt so whatever goes wrong isn't down to him!

I think he has many years yet before he's rumbled for the fraud he is by the sycophantic media.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

7 hours ago, J. James said:

You see l think that his propaganda is so effective, his blame shifting so complete that others cannot see his incompetence, inflexibility and pigheadedness.

The starting point with Rodgers seems to be "he's a great manager" with no room for any doubt so whatever goes wrong isn't down to him!

I think he has many years yet before he's rumbled for the fraud he is by the sycophantic media.

It’s baffling isn’t it. There is now a clear pattern emerging from his last 3-4 clubs (including us). 

[Onions]

On 27/08/2022 at 17:14, Onions said:

I swear people get excited when we lose so they can sprout this rubbish 😂

 

Erm, getting a little worried now