Relegation

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Great post, I'm also a little suspicious of Brendan's comments about January. I think it's a pressure ploy on the board, it's far too opposite to what he was saying in the final week or so of the window. What's changed? Relegation being a genuine possibility perhaps but we'd still need bodies off the wage bill if the reason we didn't strengthen last summer was purely down to a bloated wage bill. 

I would imagine the threat of relegation may have a impact on the board thinking? 

 

I would imagine they also didn't factor in the Fofana money into their summer plans, it arrive late and we had no head of recruitment in place.

 

Now we have Glover and the Fofana money we may do a little bit of business, I think the Glover appointment is a move to going back to looking for cheaper unpolished gems. 

 

We may also find the likes of Perez and Vestiguarrd are more keener to move on in January after getting no football.

 

Whether we like it or not we have a rebuild coming, we have 7 senior pro out of contract in the summer, Evans, Amartey, Soyuncu, Perez, Bertrand, Mendy and Tielemans. 

 

 

Edited 30 October 2022 by coolhandfox

[KFS]

A positive is Wout Faes standing out against one of the best teams in the world. You’d think he can contain Demarai fvcking Gray and Antonio on that basis 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

If we sat in the bottom three at the break would that be enough in Top’s eyes do we think to sack the manager then?

I think it more depend on performances.

 

 

[coolhandfox]

10 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

I dont think many teams have had a better run of fixtures than Forrest, Bournemouth, crystal palace, Leeds and wolves to be fair.

 

Although we are seeing in the case of liverpool that those fixtures are loseable, I dont think comparing our form over a run of 5 games to other teams who will have had a different set of fixtures is a good indication of where we're at as a side.

My view is we aren't as good as the last 6 games and we aren't as bad as the first 7.

[BKLFox]

21 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Even if we're in the bottom three come the break the fact that it's still so close currently from about 9th to 20th, he could easily convince them not to get rid.

This is it, it is looking like 1 of those seasons that’s going to take a little longer to balance itself out, although in a normal season generally you don’t take much notice of the table and really start to predict where teams will finish until Xmas, is the worry because the league stops in 2 games time & there is a subconscious element that in 2 games time is where the cut off is now when in reality there would still be another 5/6 games after these 2 ie up to Xmas/NYE point.

 

The league hasn’t balanced in form or momentum (& I’m just naming teams here not actual games I don’t think) we are still going through the dance of We beat Forest, Forest beat Bournemouth, Bournemouth beat Us & we all end up with the same amount of points which is happening with just about every team other than Man C & Arsenal.

 

If we were cut adrift by even 6 points to get out of bottom 3 I might join the worry train but when 6pts is the difference between 18th and 9th it just seems a little premature to stop sleeping, lose weight & hit the sauce.

[Chelmofox]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

the next two games will reveal if this thread needs to be closed or not …… both in performances and results. 

Hmm. If we win the next 2, Rogers gets no new players in January and goes on his 2nd massive sulk, then we are still in trouble.

[Chelmofox]

29 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

I dont think many teams have had a better run of fixtures than Forrest, Bournemouth, crystal palace, Leeds and wolves to be fair.

 

Although we are seeing in the case of liverpool that those fixtures are loseable, I dont think comparing our form over a run of 5 games to other teams who will have had a different set of fixtures is a good indication of where we're at as a side.

Yes, and that run of fixtures was one of the reasons many of us wanted to see a new manager in. What better run than this to bed in a new manager bounce? As it turns out, Rodgers has probably fared better than a new manager would have. But, the same issue loom ahead in the near future......

Edited 30 October 2022 by Chelmofox

[honeybradger]

12 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

My view is we aren't as good as the last 6 games and we aren't as bad as the first 7.

That's a fair assessment, not many teams since the PL has started have been as bad as our first 7 games and it doesnt seem we're at that level, we're also not playing like the 6th best side in the league.

 

13 games is a better sample size than either of them and it shows that we're not terrible but it looks like we're going to be in the relegation battle up to the end of the season. Obviously after the next 5 fixtures it might look dramatically different in either direction.

[coolhandfox]

16 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

That's a fair assessment, not many teams since the PL has started have been as bad as our first 7 games and it doesnt seem we're at that level, we're also not playing like the 6th best side in the league.

 

13 games is a better sample size than either of them and it shows that we're not terrible but it looks like we're going to be in the relegation battle up to the end of the season. Obviously after the next 5 fixtures it might look dramatically different in either direction.

By around the 30 game mark I expect to be out of danger.

[Dames]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

I think we have some interesting weeks / months ahead. Brushing the Wolves game to one side, we have been poor away from home for sometime and i realistically think the best we are going to get from the next two is 1 point. This plants us firmly in the bottom 3.

 

But, right now, we are 6th in the form league (https://thefishy.co.uk/formtable.php?table=1). I know this doesn't stop us getting relegated, but if we had dumped Rodgers would we have done better than this?  Hand on heart, i don't think so.

 

But its clear to me that Rodgers does not see a long term future for himself here. He's upped talk about the January window - is this realistic and is he likely to get anything that interests him? Then we have the inevitable rebuild in the summer. Assuming we aren't relegated, are we realistically going to replenish the squad with better replacements for Youri and Madders? Of course not, and i think that makes things even less interesting for him. No matter what happens this season the world class portion of our side is very likely on the way out.

 

To some degree, Top has made the situation more difficult by keeping Rodgers and Rogers somewhat turning things around. We continue in this weird situation where its likely we keep him, but won't financially back him. I think if Brendan gets nothing in January its very likely he goes on a huge sulk again, and in my opinion it was this summers sulk that caused the slump at the start of this season. If we keep Rodgers and that happens again, we are in serious danger.

 

Therefore, if the board are not willing to financially back him, they need to be getting rid asap regardless and planning for the future properly.

The odd thing i’ve found about his recent comments is about spending in January. Even when we weren’t skint club policy was to not do much business in Jan so whats changed this year? Bearing in mind the problems from this summer haven’t been addressed.

 

Feels like he’s setting another narrative. 

[taupe]

Maybe we're anticipating a few out in Jan?? Some mention of Perez, Cags to maybe?? Dunno, my conjecture. Given contracts are up on a number in summer anyway, the club might be considering offloading early for whatever they can get?? If anything. Drastic needs and drastic measures etc.

[SixtiesFox]

Given the talent that we have in our club it is hard to explain the shocking start we had to the season. However, it did fit perfectly with Rodgers' carefully crafted narrative about a refresh. Everything he did seemed to undermine the confidence of the players and whip up fears in the fan base. He looked like a man who wanted out with a huge payoff and no blame. He almost seemed to be engineering his own exit with reputation intact. Given the start we had, the worst in Premier League history, he was fully expecting the trigger to be pulled. Incredibly that didn't happen. Starting with the Forest game (a pylon could have been on the touchline overseeing that one-sided victory) our form 'miraculously' improved as Rodgers began to realize that his future prospects as a top coach now depended on us avoiding relegation. His reputation would be in tatters if he took us down with the talent at his disposal. I therefore expect us to comfortably avoid relegation even with Rodgers at the helm, but no way should he be allowed to undertake the inevitable rebuild in the summer. The man is self-serving and he brings a toxicity to the club that is, quite frankly, distasteful.

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I would imagine the threat of relegation may have a impact on the board thinking? 

 

I would imagine they also didn't factor in the Fofana money into their summer plans, it arrive late and we had no head of recruitment in place.

 

Now we have Glover and the Fofana money we may do a little bit of business, I think the Glover appointment is a move to going back to looking for cheaper unpolished gems. 

 

We may also find the likes of Perez and Vestiguarrd are more keener to move on in January after getting no football.

 

Whether we like it or not we have a rebuild coming, we have 7 senior pro out of contract in the summer, Evans, Amartey, Soyuncu, Perez, Bertrand, Mendy and Tielemans. 

 

 

Yeah there is plausibility in that, it's just such a marked shift from the summer and Brendan's resignation (don't get excited) to there needing to be a lot of movement of the chess pieces for us to get any incomings in. The way he acted leaves me with a pang of suspicion this is him applying pressure but I do hope we can get at least 2 new players in this winter.

[HighPeakFox]

16 minutes ago, SixtiesFox said:

Given the talent that we have in our club it is hard to explain the shocking start we had to the season. However, it did fit perfectly with Rodgers' carefully crafted narrative about a refresh. Everything he did seemed to undermine the confidence of the players and whip up fears in the fan base. He looked like a man who wanted out with a huge payoff and no blame. He almost seemed to be engineering his own exit with reputation intact. Given the start we had, the worst in Premier League history, he was fully expecting the trigger to be pulled. Incredibly that didn't happen. Starting with the Forest game (a pylon could have been on the touchline overseeing that one-sided victory) our form 'miraculously' improved as Rodgers began to realize that his future prospects as a top coach now depended on us avoiding relegation. His reputation would be in tatters if he took us down with the talent at his disposal. I therefore expect us to comfortably avoid relegation even with Rodgers at the helm, but no way should he be allowed to undertake the inevitable rebuild in the summer. The man is self-serving and he brings a toxicity to the club that is, quite frankly, distasteful.

That is quite the narrative. 

[lcfcsnow]

2 hours ago, KFS said:

A positive is Wout Faes standing out against one of the best teams in the world. You’d think he can contain Demarai fvcking Gray and Antonio on that basis 

His jobs a lot easier when we've got 11 men behind the ball and showing no intention to attack though.

[Chelmofox]

16 minutes ago, SixtiesFox said:

Given the talent that we have in our club it is hard to explain the shocking start we had to the season. However, it did fit perfectly with Rodgers' carefully crafted narrative about a refresh. Everything he did seemed to undermine the confidence of the players and whip up fears in the fan base. He looked like a man who wanted out with a huge payoff and no blame. He almost seemed to be engineering his own exit with reputation intact. Given the start we had, the worst in Premier League history, he was fully expecting the trigger to be pulled. Incredibly that didn't happen. Starting with the Forest game (a pylon could have been on the touchline overseeing that one-sided victory) our form 'miraculously' improved as Rodgers began to realize that his future prospects as a top coach now depended on us avoiding relegation. His reputation would be in tatters if he took us down with the talent at his disposal. I therefore expect us to comfortably avoid relegation even with Rodgers at the helm, but no way should he be allowed to undertake the inevitable rebuild in the summer. The man is self-serving and he brings a toxicity to the club that is, quite frankly, distasteful.

I also feel that not being in any sort of running for the Chelsea job had a part to play. That's always been one i thought he was nailed on to at least be in the top few candidates. The fact there wasn't a murmur they were interested, and it went to someone with (on paper) less credentials than Brendan would have hurt his ego. He must have realised that unless he turned this ship around, the chance in getting a Top 10 club job was at risk, let alone getting anywhere near a top 4.

[lifted*fox]

3 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

That is quite the narrative. 

 

some people on here have fully lost the plot

 

people have been writing their own weird version of events based on very little for months now 

[Lambert09]

my take on the whole situation is that the manager wanted to be gone, the players wanted the manager gone, the board wanted the manager to quit. The club was left in limbo and almost every party wasn’t putting in the effort or commitment needed with all 3 sides expecting something to happen..

 

‘the manager will be gone after this’ ‘they’ll sack me after these comments’  ‘he’ll walk as we’ve not backed him and he’s getting humiliated’  But we got to a point, and i think that was probably forest where the manager has realised the club aren’t going to sack him and the players realised this too. It feels like they’ve all realised they’ve just got to get on with it for the sake of their careers. 

 

Brendan is now being a little more diplomatic  in the press, the players are back to putting in maximum effort (especially the ones with the wc in the back of their minds) 

 

What we saw at brighton and spurs, wasn’t bad luck, wasn’t quality opposition, it was genuinely just giving up. That’s what players do when they hoping the axe will fall. it’s an unusual situation but we are going in the right direction now and if we keep up these performances we will pull ourselves to safety. 

 

Brendan may be a complete tool but he isn’t an inept manager, I think we all know that deep down. if the players apply themselves he’s more than capable of delivering results. 

 

 

Edited 30 October 2022 by Lambert09

[coolhandfox]

49 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Yeah there is plausibility in that, it's just such a marked shift from the summer and Brendan's resignation (don't get excited) to there needing to be a lot of movement of the chess pieces for us to get any incomings in. The way he acted leaves me with a pang of suspicion this is him applying pressure but I do hope we can get at least 2 new players in this winter.

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting the board under a little pressure. Every manager wants to be back whether that Conte, Klopp or anyone else.

 

We definitely need another CB and RW.

 

I don't think this winter window is going to be like a normal one with the WC and the long break. 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, SixtiesFox said:

Given the talent that we have in our club it is hard to explain the shocking start we had to the season. However, it did fit perfectly with Rodgers' carefully crafted narrative about a refresh. Everything he did seemed to undermine the confidence of the players and whip up fears in the fan base. He looked like a man who wanted out with a huge payoff and no blame. He almost seemed to be engineering his own exit with reputation intact. Given the start we had, the worst in Premier League history, he was fully expecting the trigger to be pulled. Incredibly that didn't happen. Starting with the Forest game (a pylon could have been on the touchline overseeing that one-sided victory) our form 'miraculously' improved as Rodgers began to realize that his future prospects as a top coach now depended on us avoiding relegation. His reputation would be in tatters if he took us down with the talent at his disposal. I therefore expect us to comfortably avoid relegation even with Rodgers at the helm, but no way should he be allowed to undertake the inevitable rebuild in the summer. The man is self-serving and he brings a toxicity to the club that is, quite frankly, distasteful.

That could  be a description for some of the members on here..... 

[Dan LCFC]

On 29/10/2022 at 15:14, trabuch said:

Despite losing today - I am far less worried about relegation.

I think this is what this month has done for me. There is a lot to improve and I still think the manager has come to the end of the line here, but I also now don't watch a side that I think looks like its going down. But then in my eyes this isn't a squad that should have ever been close to a position where it was in the discussion.

[sacreblueits442]

6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

In some ways you have to admire him. He has come from a failed playing career and has worked his way up to multi millionaire status purely on his media skills and acute business sense. Is he a bad manager? No , of course he's not but his limitations are pretty obvious if you observe him closely like we do. Unfortunately for us right now , the outer world is not scrutinising him properly.

 ..not all top managers have had stellar careers, it proves nothing that you have had a great playing career!!!

  Some players have an inherent feel and understanding about the game, sometimes a stellar player finds it difficult to impart his knowledge and expertise to players without  the same skillset. They managed to achieve in their previous careers and they will wonder why other players they are coaching, cannot do the same .

[Mr Weller 2]

I reckon if we won the league and cup double there’d still be some on here saying Rodgers out. Hatred is an ugly emotion and  clearly it’s eaten away at some people. Quite why they feel the need to hate someone so much because of a few comments he might have made about the team he manages I don’t know but there you are.

 

I know the same people will respond to this post with the usual Rodgers hate stuff and a few others will pretend to find it funny in an passive aggressive kind of way but really they just need to chill a little.

[Vazman]

3 minutes ago, Mr Weller 2 said:

I reckon if we won the league and cup double there’d still be some on here saying Rodgers out. Hatred is an ugly emotion and  clearly it’s eaten away at some people. Quite why they feel the need to hate someone so much because of a few comments he might have made about the team he manages I don’t know but there you are.

 

I know the same people will respond to this post with the usual Rodgers hate stuff and a few others will pretend to find it funny in an passive aggressive kind of way but really they just need to chill a little.

I think its eating away at you more, that some people are unhappy with Rodgers, everyone is entitled to their opinion as you are, and have.

 

If you dont like it ignore it.

[SixtiesFox]

14 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

That is quite the narrative. 

Mr. Rodgers is quite the narrator.