Relegation

[francis39]

18 hours ago, KFS said:

A positive is Wout Faes standing out against one of the best teams in the world. You’d think he can contain Demarai fvcking Gray and Antonio on that basis 

He really galvanised the backline. Imagine he wasnt signed, Amartey and Ward would still be horrible

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, SixtiesFox said:

Mr. Rodgers is quite the narrator.  

He's far from perfect, I grant you, but most of what you said is fantasy. 

[SixtiesFox]

9 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

He's far from perfect, I grant you, but most of what you said is fantasy. 

You're entitled to your opinion, but short of the old Vulcan mind meld, theorizing about his baffling comments and actions is the the best we can do. The man is an enigma for sure!  

[gurru991]

On 30/10/2022 at 05:49, coolhandfox said:

By around the 30 game mark I expect to be out of danger.

I agree but we will struggle to keep & recruit players if we are living in the bottom half of the table.

I am no fan of Rodgers but feel upper management need to accept a large degree of responsibility for the mess that we have become.

[coolhandfox]

15 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

I agree but we will struggle to keep & recruit players if we are living in the bottom half of the table.

I am no fan of Rodgers but feel upper management need to accept a large degree of responsibility for the mess that we have become.

I think we will top 10 by the end of the session. To retain the likes of Maddison and Tieleman we would have a need to get CL.

 

Most of our best recruitment has happened when we have been a middle-table PL club so not too worried about that.

 

 

[gurru991]

12 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I think we will top 10 by the end of the session. To retain the likes of Maddison and Tieleman we would have a need to get CL.

 

Most of our best recruitment has happened when we have been a middle-table PL club so not too worried about that.

 

 

I am assuming that both Maddison & Tieleman will be gone regardless along with quite a few others. My concern is that we recruit well & keep our operating budget in order.

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

I am assuming that both Maddison & Tieleman will be gone regardless along with quite a few others. My concern is that we recruit well & keep our operating budget in order.

We need to go back to finding those little gems, easy to forget Maddison was just a Championship player when he arrived a Tielemans was a player Monaco didn't want. 

 

Plenty of good players at a decent price in lower leagues and aboard, just about finding the right ones, look at Wout Faes for example.

 

I'm convince one of the reasons we went for Glover from Southampton as head of recruitment is due to he work at Southampton operating on a lower budget. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

On 30/10/2022 at 11:49, coolhandfox said:

By around the 30 game mark I expect to be out of danger.

Would love to be proved wrong but if we stay up, I don't think we'll be out of danger until the gameweek 35 or 36.

[SafewayFox]

On 30/10/2022 at 10:54, coolhandfox said:

I think we will be fine, but it going to be a long haul to move up the table to we all feel it no longer a issue.

 

Other then two lots of crazy 20 mins against Southampton and Brentford we would be looking pretty good.

 

I think people underestimate the impact of the Fofana and Kasper sagas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not disputing with the Kasper and Fofana saga causing unrest but that’s ignoring the fact that we’ve dropped 30 points from winning positions in 2022.

 

The drop off in form has been brewing for much longer than just this season.

[Guest Col city fan]

45 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

I am assuming that both Maddison & Tieleman will be gone regardless along with quite a few others. My concern is that we recruit well & keep our operating budget in order.

I fear for next season. If we get relegated, we’re fooked basically.

If we don’t get relegated but end up in the bottom half, I think our best players will leave.

The recruitment of ‘little gems’ is ok but they aren’t unearthed THAT often. And I still think that the likes of Maddison, Tielemans and Barnes carry this team. To lose all three (likely) would massively impact on us. 
I predict a tough few years for the club personally.

[gurru991]

6 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I fear for next season. If we get relegated, we’re fooked basically.

If we don’t get relegated but end up in the bottom half, I think our best players will leave.

The recruitment of ‘little gems’ is ok but they aren’t unearthed THAT often. And I still think that the likes of Maddison, Tielemans and Barnes carry this team. To lose all three (likely) would massively impact on us. 
I predict a tough few years for the club personally.

I don't think we will be relegated & I honestly feel that a good Summer window & a new manager would put this club back into top third contention. We have the infrastructure in place to succeed, we just need to go back to what we do well. The trick is to find the right Manager to take us forward & not look for the TV & Teeth solution.

[coolhandfox]

59 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Would love to be proved wrong but if we stay up, I don't think we'll be out of danger until the gameweek 35 or 36.

I am pretty confident, we will see.

 

The next 2 games may make us both change our minds one way or another.

[filbertway]

On 30/10/2022 at 10:51, Pliskin said:

 

I genuinely think he could flog a dead horse. 

What do you take the phrase "flogging a dead a horse" to mean?

 

[foxfanazer]

4 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I am pretty confident, we will see.

 

The next 2 games may make us both change our minds one way or another.

They really are huge games. Lose both and its gonna be grim waiting for the Premier league footy to come back

[ARM1968]

The elephant in the room IS next season, assuming we stay up. We will lose significant players in the summer as well as a number of squad players. No way in hell we have the money to replace with anything like the talent we have, or even close to it. We may just be putting off the inevitable. 

[kingkisnorbo]

Results against Everton and West Ham tell us whether we are in it or not for me. 

[Royston.]

8 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

The elephant in the room IS next season, assuming we stay up. We will lose significant players in the summer as well as a number of squad players. No way in hell we have the money to replace with anything like the talent we have, or even close to it. We may just be putting off the inevitable. 

Perhaps the board share your opinion, would explain a certain apathy they have shown.

 

But don't worry, I'm confident we will go down this season.

 

 

[ARM1968]

Yeah I said back when we bottled 4th again that it was the beginning of the end. Obviously I got pilloried because we won the FA Cup. However the enormity of losing CL has indeed caused the ripple effect I feared and I can see no other outcome than our eventual fall back into the Championship. Still, most of us have been through that and worse. Actually enjoyed league 1. 

[coolhandfox]

10 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

The elephant in the room IS next season, assuming we stay up. We will lose significant players in the summer as well as a number of squad players. No way in hell we have the money to replace with anything like the talent we have, or even close to it. We may just be putting off the inevitable. 

We are going to lose 6-7 players who are out of contract, Evans, Amartey, Perez, Mendy, Bertrand, Soyuncu, Tielemans, out of those 7 only 3 have played a real part this season, you are probably looking at 400k of the wage bill a week, which is 20m a year add to the 7m saving from moving Kasper on so 27m off the wage bill at least. 

 

Player amortisation in the 21/22 accounts was 72m, which will drop by about 20-30m.

 

Combining that with the injection of cash from the Fofana fee, we have a lot more wiggle room.

 

This year is the toughest year as we have a high amount of amortisation and a high wage bill.

 

I expect our recruitment in the summer to be young hunger players for around the 15m-20m mark on reasonable wages on longer contacts (5 years)

 

You could, in theory, spend 80m and if they are all on 5-year contacts it would only add 16m amortisation to the books. 

 

Young players generally cost less than senior pros wages-wise.

 

If we stay up, I'm actual excited about next season, think along the lines of the Palace rebuild.

 

Edited 1 November 2022 by coolhandfox

[filbertway]

28 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We are going to lose 6-7 players who are out of contract, Evans, Amartey, Perez, Mendy, Bertrand, Soyuncu, Tielemans, out of those 7 only 3 have played a real part this season, you are probably looking at 400k of the wage bill a week, which is 20m a year add to the 7m saving from moving Kasper on so 27m off the wage bill at least. 

 

 

If we stay up, I'm actual excited about next season, think along the lines of the Palace rebuild.

 

 

The most important thing is that we buy young talent in their early 20s who's value will appreciate and will hopefully represent good value for money in terms of their wages. No more padding the squad out with bang average players in 26-32 age range who will want top dollar and aren't good enough to justify it.

 

If we continue to spend that way it'll just ruin ourselves in the medium-long term. As well as it just being stupid to disregard the fact that operating the former way  allowed us to put together a team capable of picking up 70+ points on a much smaller budget than usually required.

 

We need to be willing to sell players while being bold enough to back ourselves to find their replacements at a fraction of the cost. It was clearly a method that was working so well and I can't believe we deviated away from it. You don't see the repercussions immediately so people gloss the poor decisions. We're now seeing the result of the poor performance in the transfer market now though. This coming summer is an incredibly volatile position and will be the point where we can steer the ship in the right direction, or we sign our own death warrant and continue a slow sink into championship mediocrity.

 

We need a management team that are all pulling in the same direction.

Edited 1 November 2022 by filbertway

[ithuriel]

The next two league games will be huge, lose both and we are back to square one and I think Brendans job will be hanging by a thread, draw both and we at least are no longer easy pickings, win both and we probably have turned a corner but until we reach the 35/40 point mark are not safe.

[ian__marshall]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

We are going to lose 6-7 players who are out of contract, Evans, Amartey, Perez, Mendy, Bertrand, Soyuncu, Tielemans, out of those 7 only 3 have played a real part this season, you are probably looking at 400k of the wage bill a week, which is 20m a year add to the 7m saving from moving Kasper on so 27m off the wage bill at least. 

 

Player amortisation in the 21/22 accounts was 72m, which will drop by about 20-30m.

 

Combining that with the injection of cash from the Fofana fee, we have a lot more wiggle room.

 

This year is the toughest year as we have a high amount of amortisation and a high wage bill.

 

I expect our recruitment in the summer to be young hunger players for around the 15m-20m mark on reasonable wages on longer contacts (5 years)

 

You could, in theory, spend 80m and if they are all on 5-year contacts it would only add 16m amortisation to the books. 

 

Young players generally cost less than senior pros wages-wise.

 

If we stay up, I'm actual excited about next season, think along the lines of the Palace rebuild.

 

I completely agree with this. Think we'll bounce back quite strongly next season once we're back in a position of safety re: the financial sustainability rules. The appointment of Glover will play a big role in shaping our future and I can very much see us bringing in the type of player's that we previously used to sign pre Congerton, I.e. young prospects looking to use the club as a springboard for moves to the bigger clubs. As for Brendan, whilst I don't particularly like him as a person, if he stays and his remit is solely to focus on the training ground and work with the player's Glover provides I don't really have an issue with him staying. 

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, filbertway said:

 

The most important thing is that we buy young talent in their early 20s who's value will appreciate and will hopefully represent good value for money in terms of their wages. No more padding the squad out with bang average players in 26-32 age range who will want top dollar and aren't good enough to justify it.

 

If we continue to spend that way it'll just ruin ourselves in the medium-long term. As well as it just being stupid to disregard the fact that operating the former way  allowed us to put together a team capable of picking up 70+ points on a much smaller budget than usually required.

 

We need to be willing to sell players while being bold enough to back ourselves to find their replacements at a fraction of the cost. It was clearly a method that was working so well and I can't believe we deviated away from it. You don't see the repercussions immediately so people gloss the poor decisions. We're now seeing the result of the poor performance in the transfer market now though. This coming summer is an incredibly volatile position and will be the point where we can steer the ship in the right direction, or we sign our own death warrant and continue a slow sink into championship mediocrity.

 

We need a management team that are all pulling in the same direction.

100% this, think of summer 2018 we brought Maddison (21 years old), Ricardo (24), Soyuncu (22), all young and up-and-coming players, who we have got 4 years out of.

 

No club is going to get every transfer right, but we need to get more right then we get wrong. 

 

I think the appointment of Glover is going to see us look at that market. 

 

We need to learn a lesson from the last few years that players don't go into the last 2 years of a contract, we should have sold both Tielemans and Soyuncu in the summer after the FA Cup win, once it was clear they would not extend. Even if we got what we paid that would have seen us bring 60m to the coffers, a massive learning curve for the club.

 

 

Personally think the club hierarchy, and I included BR, Welan, Rudkin and Top in this got a little giddy on the success of two top 6 finishes and a FA cup win and lost sight of what got us there in the first place.

 

Selling at the right time and for the right price, buying well.

 

Also, have a structure in place where the club is in control of everything off the pitch and the manager just focuses on the pitch.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 November 2022 by coolhandfox

[filbertway]

21 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

100% this, think of summer 2018 we brought Maddison (21 years old), Ricardo (24), Soyuncu (22), all young and up-and-coming players, who we have got 4 years out of.

 

No club is going to get every transfer right, but we need to get more right then we get wrong. 

 

I think the appointment of Glover is going to see us look at that market. 

 

We need to learn a lesson from the last few years that players don't go into the last 2 years of a contract, we should have sold both Tielemans and Soyuncu in the summer after the FA Cup win, once it was clear they would not extend. Even if we got what we paid that would have seen us bring 60m to the coffers, a massive learning curve for the club.

 

 

Personally think the club hierarchy, and I included BR, Welan, Rudkin and Top in this got a little giddy on the success of two top 6 finishes and a FA cup win and lost sight of what got us there in the first place.

 

Selling at the right time and for the right price, buying well.

 

Also, have a structure in place where the club is in control of everything off the pitch and the manager just focuses on the pitch.  

Agreed on all of that.

 

One thing under Vichai was that the upper hierarchy made plenty of mistakes, but I don't think I ever saw them make the same mistake twice when it came to footballing decisions. Hopefully Top follows in his fathers footsteps in that regard.

 

Huge summer for the club and I hope they take onboard everything they have learned and use that experience to make this summer a successful one that has us heading in the right direction again.

[gurru991]

16 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

The elephant in the room IS next season, assuming we stay up. We will lose significant players in the summer as well as a number of squad players. No way in hell we have the money to replace with anything like the talent we have, or even close to it. We may just be putting off the inevitable. 

The club will need to revert to how we used to do business & dig up some hidden gems. I expect Maddison to bring in good money but it will need to be spent wisely.