Top

[Guest bennytwohats]

3 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

It’s been a string of poor decisions over the last 4 years that have cost the club. It is clear there is a lack of footballing knowledge at the highest level, which costs us time and time again.

 

19/20 January and we are flying in the league, a little gamble here and we could be playing CL football. What do we do bring in Ryan Bennett on loan. Rodgers got a lot of flack for how we ran out of stream at the end of that season, but any sort of investment in Jan could have kicked us on.

We just missed out and could look to invest? We bring in Castagne, Fofana and Under on loan in the summer.

January comes around again, we are still in Europe, fully in the knowledge we ran out of steam the season before and again no investment in the playing side.

It’s these key moments that the board have failed to take a gamble and back the team again and again. 
We did invest at the start of 21/20 which was possibly our worst transfer window - again many blamed Rodgers, and he and the recruitment team has to take some of the blame, but who was handing out those ridiculous contracts?

 

Flash forward to the start of this season and a third of the squad are out of contract  at seasons end. We are losing millions of pounds worth of talent for free and don’t have the players with the commitment to the club.

Anyone who watched us that season knew we needed a refresh, we needed to get players out the door and replace them - it didn’t happen again.
 

Every time this squad had needed something it hasn’t arrived.

 

Add this to the way fans have been treated and some of the weird off field decisions, the medical department and something is clearly wrong. 

 

This is not all on Top, but the board of directors, Whelan, Rudkin, Rodgers, Congerton and others at a high level.

Rodgers for me, was a small part of the problem and more heads need to role before we will get any better.

It’s not the lack of football knowledge I find so damning. It’s the lack of strategy and structure on how to run a business. Where were the objective performance measurements, contingency planning etc.

 

It’s quite incredible that despite our form for the past few months we backed Rodgers into a two week break and then sacked him immediately after with absolutely no plan about succession. To have that result in two games without a manager followed by an underwhelming appointment tells you everything one needs to know about how the club is being run at the moment. It’s blunder after blunder.

 

Rodgers had to go, but it was far too late. Someone higher up needs to be accountable for the mess we are in as well imo, I hope there will be some changes at the club in the summer.

[Dames]

3 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

It’s not the lack of football knowledge I find so damning. It’s the lack of strategy and structure on how to run a business. Where were the objective performance measurements, contingency planning etc.

 

It’s quite incredible that despite our form for the past few months we backed Rodgers into a two week break and then sacked him immediately after with absolutely no plan about succession. To have that result in two games without a manager followed by an underwhelming appointment tells you everything one needs to know about how the club is being run at the moment. It’s blunder after blunder.

 

Rodgers had to go, but it was far too late. Someone higher up needs to be accountable for the mess we are in as well imo, I hope there will be some changes at the club in the summer.

There will be no changes at board level. Its all too comfortable and the people there are well versed in massaging Tops ego. You won’t see anyone leave unless they fundamentally disagree with Top and that isn’t going to happen. Whelan is KPs woman and Rudkin is the ultimate leech, he puts his own interests ahead of the club every single time. 
 

Until KP sell up we are now on a downward trajectory. 

[MalletFox]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

We're the worst run club in a league that contains Everton. It's incredible.

With a bit of luck they’ll have a points deduction this season!!! I think we’ll need that helping hand if we’re to stay in the Prem!

[Dan LCFC]

3 minutes ago, Dames said:

There will be no changes at board level. Its all too comfortable and the people there are well versed in massaging Tops ego. You won’t see anyone leave unless they fundamentally disagree with Top and that isn’t going to happen. Whelan is KPs woman and Rudkin is the ultimate leech, he puts his own interests ahead of the club every single time. 
 

Until KP sell up we are now on a downward trajectory. 

Getting relegated surely takes this away. If not then god help us.

[MrLuke]

As others have pointed out, we’re at a low point but only in the context of our recent premier league history. We’ve been spoilt over the last few years (perhaps with the exception of the last 18 months).

 

It worries me that our immediate future hangs in the balance. I only hope that this current predicament is the kick up the arse the club and top need; that this is like a check up from the doctor who tells you to change your ways or you’re heading to an early grave - perhaps a bit dramatic but you get my point. 
 

regardless of what division we are in next year, we need a root and branch change of how we run as a club, otherwise we’re heading back to becoming a middle of the road championship team. And from Top’s perspective, as a supposed businessman, this is suicide. Hopefully it makes him pay more attention to how his club is run, or to identify where its main failings are and make changes. 

 

 

[beepee1984]

You can't choose your Owners, but what Top and his Dad have done for this club and community is significantly more than most owners and turning on them when we are struggling shows a lot about our fans.

 

Yes I believe changes are needed at board level, but not at the very top. Maybe bring someone to help him and remove Rudkin

Yes Top kept BR in place far too long, but bringing in Rodgers was his first major decision and for 2 years it worked. He backed it and in had faith in his man, although the sticking my him was ultimately the wrong decision I still hope it doesn't end with Top falling on his sword.

I also think he tries to be the managers and players friend and this personal relationship affects the footballing decisions. I'm worried this will also mean that he won't make the changes to the board, but I'm hoping now he has got rid of BR, looking at the board will be next.

In addition, look how quickly Brighton replaced Potter this season, when they didn't even sack him. They scout managers and always know who they want next, after a year off fans calling for BR's head, we had no succession planned. We need to look at Brighton's model and learn.

His Dad also had a more focused approach which he could do with.

 

Top is a young owner who took over the club in tragic circumstances, he has a lot to learn and will learn and has to, but I personally think he should learn and grow with the club. They have put too much into the club for the fans to turn on him and if the club starts failing we will see changes, because he has too. He is still the right man for the club and wider community.

 

Now is a low point, but we've had lower and every club has these periods. This is actually the first he has faced as chairman and time for him to step up

 

 

[StevieH]

32 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

It’s not the lack of football knowledge I find so damning. It’s the lack of strategy and structure on how to run a business. Where were the objective performance measurements, contingency planning etc.

 

It’s quite incredible that despite our form for the past few months we backed Rodgers into a two week break and then sacked him immediately after with absolutely no plan about succession. To have that result in two games without a manager followed by an underwhelming appointment tells you everything one needs to know about how the club is being run at the moment. It’s blunder after blunder.

 

Rodgers had to go, but it was far too late. Someone higher up needs to be accountable for the mess we are in as well imo, I hope there will be some changes at the club in the summer.

It's clear to me that Rodgers wanted out and took a cut in compo to go. Top wasn't prepared for this as I'm sure he would have kept him on. Rodgers didn't want the stigma of taking us down and opted to jump. Still thinks he can get a top job somewhere else. If Top was going to sack him would have done it weeks earlier and had a succession plan.

[Guest bennytwohats]

20 minutes ago, Dames said:

There will be no changes at board level. Its all too comfortable and the people there are well versed in massaging Tops ego. You won’t see anyone leave unless they fundamentally disagree with Top and that isn’t going to happen. Whelan is KPs woman and Rudkin is the ultimate leech, he puts his own interests ahead of the club every single time. 
 

Until KP sell up we are now on a downward trajectory. 

I’m not so sure. If we go down this will hit our bottom line where it hurts. It seems to me that our current malaise is because they didn’t realise relegation is genuinely on the cards, not because they did but didn’t care.
 

Nothing like losing a lot of money to bring out a ruthless side in a business person. Even if you think Top isn’t that, he will ultimately have other people he needs to answer to in his other business interests as well. There will be no hiding from it.

[ALC Fox]

Football isn't like any other business.

 

Rodgers had managed us to a position where there was talk that we had extended the Big Six into a Big Seven. Of course his wages were going to be high - we were trying to protect our investment as it would have surely seemed inevitable that an elite side would come in for him.

 

Then Covid happened, which hurt the finances, and the club did the very admirable thing of not furloughing staff and not taking government handouts. Excellent PR and a wonderful gesture to all staff.

 

Then Rodgers wanted us to keep all our players. I heard a pundit yesterday say that we didn't sell because of the limited market after Covid and there weren't as many buyers willing to part with their cash. What absolute bullsh!t. There were definite takers for Maddison, Tielemans, Soyuncu, Ndidi, Fofana and probably Iheanacho after our FA Cup win. But it was Rodgers who wanted to abandon the model and the owners/board who allowed him, which subsequently led to a stagnant squad with dwindling value as their contracts ran down and the manager's voice carrying less weight. All because of those decisions to not sell anyone, bulk out the squad with signings that haven't worked out, and award pay rises to our better players.

 

That then led to the restricted transfer activity we saw in the summer, which could only be solved by money coming in or waiting. And it also meant that the long, expensive contract we gave to Rodgers to protect our investment in him became a yoke around the club's neck as his dwindling influence on the squad and his alienation of the players meant that we couldn't afford to sack him as he mismanaged the team.

 

As a result, the club quite understandably put their faith in a manager who had achieved great things with the club in the hope that we would survive and we could reassess in the summer when the compensation package would cost less and we'd likely have fewer massive earners on our books. It backfired, but it happens. And we've had to take the hit in a desperate attempt to avoid the drop.

 

The club haven't forgotten the blueprint to success, but they haven't followed it for a while. What matters now is survival, but we must embrace the challenge of renewing the squad. It may see us be next year's Southampton, if we stay up: a squad full of young, promising talents who look like giving teams a game but ultimately suffer relegation. But the wages will be down, those young, promising assets will show their potential and we can recycle, rebuild and come back stronger. Who knows, if things go our way, we may even survive this season AND next season.

 

Will Jesse Marsch be a major part of the rebuild? It's far too early to tell. He was a very promising young coach not too long ago. Following a tactically flexible, elite manager like Nagelsmann at Leipzig was a tough ask. Some of the players felt like they were regressing under Marsch because he was going back to what Leipzig had done before Nagelsmann. But they were successful with those tactics before, so surely psychology must have played some part in their underperformance under Marsch: a 'perceived going backwards' that actually led to a slump. And following the cult of Bielsa at Leeds and trying to implement a new style when the fans oh-so-adored the old one was like splitting up with Emily Blunt and then taking Katie Hopkins to the next family wedding. (By the way, that is a metaphor on how nice a person each of them is, not on their appearance.)

 

With a blank slate, a rebuilt/rebuilding squad and proper buy-in to his tactics, can a team that focuses on vertical movement be successful in the Premier League? In theory, yes. At our counterattacking best we funnelled those who attacked us out wide and let Huth and Morgan just head balls away for fun. Kante won the ball back quickly in midfield and he and Drinkwater got the ball up the pitch quickly. I doubt Marsch will follow that blueprint exactly, and we should definitely not ignore the half-spaces, which are statistically the most dangerous areas of the pitch, but we can turn this all around in a shorter time than it seems right now.

 

By the end of 2024/25, we could be the envy of most of the division again. But we do need a lot of things to go right.

Edited 9 April 2023 by ALC Fox
Grammar

[st albans fox]

45 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

She’s CEO - she is ultimately responsible. 

I think it’s been said many times that she isn’t responsible for decisions on the football side of the club unless she’s asked to put her two penny piece in. 
 

there were many Thai’s at the game yesterday and I doubt that they were all competition winners. Yes there may have been some employees of king power who were being rewarded with a trip to the U.K. to watch a PL game but I suspect that sitting half a dozen of them on the front row where the away directors usually sit reflects that these particular guys were significant people.  Top must have squirmed his way through that second half and the boos at the end would have been tough for him. 
 

the chickens have certainly come home to roost 

[Guest bennytwohats]

8 minutes ago, StevieH said:

It's clear to me that Rodgers wanted out and took a cut in compo to go. Top wasn't prepared for this as I'm sure he would have kept him on. Rodgers didn't want the stigma of taking us down and opted to jump. Still thinks he can get a top job somewhere else. If Top was going to sack him would have done it weeks earlier and had a succession plan.

Yeah worryingly I can understand this view and think there could be something to it. It would explain the timing of everything.

 

In any case to not have been working up a succession plan in the background feels negligent given the circumstances

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

Football isn't like any other business.

 

Rodgers had managed us to a position where there was talk that we had extended the Big Six into a Big Seven. Of course his wages were going to be high - we were trying to protect our investment as it would have surely seemed inevitable that an elite side would come in for him.

 

Then Covid happened, which hurt the finances, and the club did the very admirable thing of not furloughing staff and not taking government handouts. Excellent PR and a wonderful gesture to all staff.

 

Then Rodgers wanted us to keep all our players. I heard a pundit yesterday say that we didn't sell because of the limited market after Covid and there weren't as many buyers willing to part with their cash. What absolute bullsh!t. There were definite takers for Maddison, Tielemans, Soyuncu, Ndidi, Fofana and probably Iheanacho after our FA Cup win. But it was Rodgers who wanted to abandon the model and the owners/board who allowed him, which subsequently led to a stagnant squad with dwindling value as their contracts ran down and the manager's voice carrying less weight. All because of those decisions to not sell anyone, bulk out the squad with signings that haven't worked out, and award pay rises to our better players.

 

That then led to the restricted transfer activity we saw in the summer, which could only be solved by money coming in or waiting. And it also meant that the long, expensive contract we gave to Rodgers to protect our investment in him became a yoke around the club's neck as his dwindling influence on the squad and his alienation of the players meant that we couldn't afford to sack him as he mismanaged the team.

 

As a result, the club quite understandably put their faith in a manager who had achieved great things with the club in the hope that we would survive and we could reassess in the summer when the compensation package would cost less and we'd likely have fewer massive earners on our books. It backfired, but it happens. And we've had to take the hit in a desperate attempt to avoid the drop.

 

The club haven't forgotten the blueprint to success, but they haven't followed it for a while. What matters now is survival, but we must embrace the challenge of renewing the squad. It may see us be next year's Southampton, if we stay up: a squad full of young, promising talents who look like giving teams a game but ultimately suffer relegation. But the wages will be down, those young, promising assets will show their potential and we can recycle, rebuild and come back stronger. Who knows, if things go our way, we may even survive this season AND next season.

 

Will Jesse Marsch be a major part of the rebuild? It's far too early to tell. He was a very promising young coach not too long ago. Following a tactically flexible, elite manager like Nagelsmann at Leipzig was a tough ask. Some of the players felt like they were regressing under Marsch because he was going back to what Leipzig had done before Nagelsmann. But they were successful with those tactics before, so surely psychology must have played some part in their underperformance under Marsch: a 'perceived going backwards' that actually led to a slump. And following the cult of Bielsa at Leeds and trying to implement a new style when the fans oh-so-adored the old one was like splitting up with Emily Blunt and then taking Katie Hopkins to the next family wedding. (By the way, that is a metaphor on how nice a person each of them are, not on their appearance.)

 

With a blank slate, a rebuilt/rebuilding squad and proper buy-in to his tactics, can a team that focuses on vertical movement be successful in the Premier League? In theory, yes. At our counterattacking best we funnelled those who attacked us out wide and let Huth and Morgan just head balls away for fun. Kante won the ball back quickly in midfield and he and Drinkwater got the ball up the pitch quickly. I doubt Marsch will follow that blueprint exactly, and we should definitely not ignore the half-spaces, which are statistically the most dangerous areas of the pitch, but we can turn this all around in a shorter time than it seems right now.

 

By the end of 2024/25, we could be the envy of most of the division again. But we do need a lot of things to go right.

I like your positivity but foxaterham’s bus has had its wheels stripped ……

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

She’s CEO - she is ultimately responsible. 

And she is on a couple of Premier League working groups etc. 

 

Gonna be a bit of blow when next season when the board are slumming it at Kenilworth Road 

[l444ry]

Can't help but think his real problems are only just beginning. We are in a financial black hole and didn't the club mortgage it's future to the Banks in the last couple of years? Anyone got a better insight into the current financial position if we get relegated?   

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, MalletFox said:

With a bit of luck they’ll have a points deduction this season!!! I think we’ll need that helping hand if we’re to stay in the Prem!

Nothing will happen this season 

[st albans fox]

Incidentally, I noticed that the board did not clap the players from the pitch………that isn’t something I’ve seen before.  I think they were seriously shocked (and top was embarrassed ) by what they saw yesterday. they probably assumed that Bournemouth would rock up and lie down for us to comfortably win - deluded to the end. 

[Steve Earle]

5 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

It’s been a string of poor decisions over the last 4 years that have cost the club. It is clear there is a lack of footballing knowledge at the highest level, which costs us time and time again.

 

19/20 January and we are flying in the league, a little gamble here and we could be playing CL football. What do we do bring in Ryan Bennett on loan. Rodgers got a lot of flack for how we ran out of stream at the end of that season, but any sort of investment in Jan could have kicked us on.

We just missed out and could look to invest? We bring in Castagne, Fofana and Under on loan in the summer.

January comes around again, we are still in Europe, fully in the knowledge we ran out of steam the season before and again no investment in the playing side.

It’s these key moments that the board have failed to take a gamble and back the team again and again. 
We did invest at the start of 21/20 which was possibly our worst transfer window - again many blamed Rodgers, and he and the recruitment team has to take some of the blame, but who was handing out those ridiculous contracts?

 

Flash forward to the start of this season and a third of the squad are out of contract  at seasons end. We are losing millions of pounds worth of talent for free and don’t have the players with the commitment to the club.

Anyone who watched us that season knew we needed a refresh, we needed to get players out the door and replace them - it didn’t happen again.
 

Every time this squad had needed something it hasn’t arrived.

 

Add this to the way fans have been treated and some of the weird off field decisions, the medical department and something is clearly wrong. 

 

This is not all on Top, but the board of directors, Whelan, Rudkin, Rodgers, Congerton and others at a high level.

Rodgers for me, was a small part of the problem and more heads need to role before we will get any better.

Well said sir (or madam). It’s not been an 18 month s**t show, we’ve been unraveling since January 2020 at least. All that’s happened in the last 18 months has been a steady acceleration of our demise. 

Edited 9 April 2023 by Steve Earle

[foxinsocks]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Incidentally, I noticed that the board did not clap the players from the pitch………that isn’t something I’ve seen before.  I think they were seriously shocked (and top was embarrassed ) by what they saw yesterday. they probably assumed that Bournemouth would rock up and lie down for us to comfortably win - deluded to the end. 

Top has been asleep at the wheel

[99 Problems]

11 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Can't help but think his real problems are only just beginning. We are in a financial black hole and didn't the club mortgage it's future to the Banks in the last couple of years? Anyone got a better insight into the current financial position if we get relegated?   

Yeah it costs us in the region of £100m. Not something financially the club are going to bounce back from any time soon. 
 

if Top stays and we are relegated (which sadly he will) then we start again. This time without a Pearson and Walsh to help build the club from the ground up and without the financial injection we had in the championship. We are basically Blackburn now 

[Tommy Fresh]

29 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

And she is on a couple of Premier League working groups etc. 

 

Gonna be a bit of blow when next season when the board are slumming it at Kenilworth Road 

Luton will come up so no problem 

[fazzyfox]

The availability of replacement managers is a moving evolving thing, like nailing jelly to a wall, not a permanent sub group of the same people just waiting around for a call but having said that the club have had since around October to be looking seriously at options. So good to know they could act swiftly and not leave us rudderless with two crucial home games in 4 days and 4 points very possible…..oh hang on they have done just that, put the players in a dressing room without a manager, twice, and allowed two uniquely strange team selections, effectively wasting two opportunities of points before a ball is kicked. Maybe gambling with caretakers earlier for Palace away would have been not too wasteful but giving them the prime opportunity of Home to Bournemouth in particular and letting them send out that unprofessional unco-ordinated shambles of a first half performance was avoidable and you got what you deserved. Yesterday was on you, a professional club being unprepared and unconditioned mentally for competitive sport, a disgrace to offer that up and charge people to watch.

[StriderHiryu]

5 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

It’s been a string of poor decisions over the last 4 years that have cost the club. It is clear there is a lack of footballing knowledge at the highest level, which costs us time and time again.

 

19/20 January and we are flying in the league, a little gamble here and we could be playing CL football. What do we do bring in Ryan Bennett on loan. Rodgers got a lot of flack for how we ran out of stream at the end of that season, but any sort of investment in Jan could have kicked us on.

We just missed out and could look to invest? We bring in Castagne, Fofana and Under on loan in the summer.

January comes around again, we are still in Europe, fully in the knowledge we ran out of steam the season before and again no investment in the playing side.

It’s these key moments that the board have failed to take a gamble and back the team again and again. 
We did invest at the start of 21/20 which was possibly our worst transfer window - again many blamed Rodgers, and he and the recruitment team has to take some of the blame, but who was handing out those ridiculous contracts?

 

Flash forward to the start of this season and a third of the squad are out of contract  at seasons end. We are losing millions of pounds worth of talent for free and don’t have the players with the commitment to the club.

Anyone who watched us that season knew we needed a refresh, we needed to get players out the door and replace them - it didn’t happen again.
 

Every time this squad had needed something it hasn’t arrived.

 

Add this to the way fans have been treated and some of the weird off field decisions, the medical department and something is clearly wrong. 

 

This is not all on Top, but the board of directors, Whelan, Rudkin, Rodgers, Congerton and others at a high level.

Rodgers for me, was a small part of the problem and more heads need to role before we will get any better.

Great post.

 

[filthyfox]

This relegation is gonna be Top's fault.  Should have sacked Bindum after losing to Forest.... again

[Tommy G]

4 hours ago, StevieH said:

It's clear to me that Rodgers wanted out and took a cut in compo to go. Top wasn't prepared for this as I'm sure he would have kept him on. Rodgers didn't want the stigma of taking us down and opted to jump. Still thinks he can get a top job somewhere else. If Top was going to sack him would have done it weeks earlier and had a succession plan.

Smart move by Rodgers - he can easily spin that he was working with his hands tied behind his back financially, and he can harp on about the FA Cup result and the two top 5 finishes. The latest season will be forgotten about in the next few months and he will land a top job, either spurs or will wait for the first decent manager casualty next season and take the summer off with a few million quid in his pocket. 

[Chrysalis]

What do people think of the possibility that top is requesting we play a certain way?  We changed things up for villa and I felt up until the red card we were more competitive, finally looked dangerous going forward, then reverted to tripe for the Bournemouth game, even conceding our goal on one of the many back passes.