Top

[Mickyblueeyes]

People need to realise Top and KP is completely different to Vichai and KP.

 

One was a maverick entrepreneur who built his family to a ridiculous level of comfort. Took the knocks in life to do it.

 

The other shouldn’t anywhere near running a business. 
 

What we did to build a top 6, fa cup winning side wasn’t a fluke - it was put together and overseen by a business man.

 

But if that want a fluke nor is our current position. 
 

 

[StanSP]

We just need Top and whoever is at the helm to learn from this, and do so with ridiculous speed.

 

I'd rather that happened and we get back some credibility and positive reputation with positive rewards filtering down to the club like previous. I'm sure Vichai was never mistake-free but I'm also adamantly sure he would have learnt from them like any businessman does. Top just needs to find his father's vigour and ruthlessness. A start to finding that would probably be replacing several people just underneath him that make footballing decisions. It's started with Rodgers, and now perhaps changes need to be made in the levels between Rodgers and Top.

 

I don't think it's the answer to just get rid of Top. I'm not in denial of the errors in judgment they (he and KP) have made in the past 12-18 months, but I think they need to be given a chance to learn and perhaps get us back on track.

[Mickyblueeyes]

8 minutes ago, StanSP said:

We just need Top and whoever is at the helm to learn from this, and do so with ridiculous speed.

 

I'd rather that happened and we get back some credibility and positive reputation with positive rewards filtering down to the club like previous. I'm sure Vichai was never mistake-free but I'm also adamantly sure he would have learnt from them like any businessman does. Top just needs to find his father's vigour and ruthlessness. A start to finding that would probably be replacing several people just underneath him that make footballing decisions. It's started with Rodgers, and now perhaps changes need to be made in the levels between Rodgers and Top.

 

I don't think it's the answer to just get rid of Top. I'm not in denial of the errors in judgment they (he and KP) have made in the past 12-18 months, but I think they need to be given a chance to learn and perhaps get us back on track.

Learning from it means you make the necessary changes to avoid such catastrophic and costly errors going forward.

 

For Top to stay he can’t have his yes men/women around. He needs a seasoned sports CEO - someone who is ready to quit on him if they think he is being ridiculous.

 

He needs a high value DOF and CFO. Who have the capabilities of working within the budgeting and stoping things pro-actively if it risks our future. 
 

It cannot be “same again”. The world doesn’t work like that and anyone who thinks it does at that level is going to get an almighty shock one day.

[Simoken]

4 hours ago, stourbridgefox said:

So let's get this right:

 

Sack Rogers and all will be right in the world.

 

It isn't, so...

 

Sack the board and all will be right in the world. 

[Guest bennytwohats]

14 minutes ago, StanSP said:

We just need Top and whoever is at the helm to learn from this, and do so with ridiculous speed.

 

I'd rather that happened and we get back some credibility and positive reputation with positive rewards filtering down to the club like previous. I'm sure Vichai was never mistake-free but I'm also adamantly sure he would have learnt from them like any businessman does. Top just needs to find his father's vigour and ruthlessness. A start to finding that would probably be replacing several people just underneath him that make footballing decisions. It's started with Rodgers, and now perhaps changes need to be made in the levels between Rodgers and Top.

 

I don't think it's the answer to just get rid of Top. I'm not in denial of the errors in judgment they (he and KP) have made in the past 12-18 months, but I think they need to be given a chance to learn and perhaps get us back on track.

I agree. He needs to learn and there needs to be some changes off the back of this, but tbh I think summer is the time for the reflection. Priority from now until the end of the season has to be doing everything possible to stay up.

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Learning from it means you make the necessary changes to avoid such catastrophic and costly errors going forward.

 

For Top to stay he can’t have his yes men/women around. He needs a seasoned sports CEO - someone who is ready to quit on him if they think he is being ridiculous.

 

He needs a high value DOF and CFO. Who have the capabilities of working within the budgeting and stoping things pro-actively if it risks our future. 
 

It cannot be “same again”. The world doesn’t work like that and anyone who thinks it does at that level is going to get an almighty shock one day.

I agree.

 

I think Rudkin's time has been served. How long has he been here as DoF? 

To be honest, I don't know enough about what Whelan does so I can't really comment that strongly on whether she should go/stay.  Whoever else is advising Top on footballing/matchday-based decisions needs to probably go as well.

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, stourbridgefox said:

So let's get this right:

 

Sack Rogers and all will be right in the world.

 

It isn't, so...

 

Sack the board and all will be right in the world. 

Are you trying to say because we sacked Rodgers about 20 games too late, it meant we shouldnt have sacked him at all?

[Strokes]

4 hours ago, stourbridgefox said:

So let's get this right:

 

Sack Rogers and all will be right in the world.

 

It isn't, so...

 

Sack the board and all will be right in the world. 

He should have been sacked before the World Cup.

Its no use actioning the emergency plan to stop the sinking ship, when the deck is already under water.

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Old Fox said:

Never read so much clap trap in my life - this club has never had better owners - Top maybe needs support but he has multiple business challenges and family ones too but the above is garbage !!

 

We will never ever experience anything the like again and about every club except the Big 6 would swap places with us - the level of entitlement in our fans is unbelievable 

So any actual opposition to the points I laid out or just the usual ‘clap trap!’ and ‘nonsense!’? 
 

I’ve never seen an actual countenance to these points I laid out. Very generous with their investment in the club and city? Absolutely. Any evidence of informed or strategic ownership? As we see now, it doesn’t look like it.

 

This absolute defence of the ownership is bizarre, they deserve their plaudits, that doesn’t make them immune to criticism. 

[stourbridgefox]

4 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Are you trying to say because we sacked Rodgers about 20 games too late, it meant we shouldnt have sacked him at all?

My point is about fans.

[HarryDee8]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65234122

 

Some one has to say what we were all thinking. And it took Chris Sutton to come out with it.  👏👏 Can't disagree about anything he says here

[sacreblueits442]

On 08/04/2023 at 07:08, JamesWelshFox said:

Things must change. A player with 2 years left on a contract gets offered a new deal. He signs or he gets sold. We cannot keep spending millions and then letting it walk out the door for free. It is no way to run any business. Sure we would like to keep our best players but if their commitment to the club isn't there then they have to go for the best price we can get, because we cannot afford to carry a player who is losing interest, paying their salary for 2 years and then watch them leave for free, and have to try and replace them spending more millions again. Madness.

...if a player chooses to run down his contract, there is not a lot that can be done!!!

  We could inform him that we need to sell but he could chose not to go to a new club and the added problem is his price drops because of the disquiet. Other clubd hoping the player seeks to agitate for a move will get a good few millions knocked off his price. 

[Daggers]

4 hours ago, HarryDee8 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65234122

 

Some one has to say what we were all thinking. And it took Chris Sutton to come out with it.  👏👏 Can't disagree about anything he says here

Apart from everything he says about Rodgers. Sutton has been up Brendo’s chuff all season. The bloke is a tool. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Hope the lad has a plan to rebuild in the Championship. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

5 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Hope the lad has a plan to rebuild in the Championship. 

I don’t think he has a plan for what he wants to do on his Sunday off. If he has to be involved next year, regardless of league, I hope he is kept away from planning anything on the football side. Maybe he can organise the catering or something. 
 

He’s a serious issue within the football club and the stories coming out show that not only did he enable this drastic decline, he prolonged it. I’m hoping he accepts some home truths and takes up a ceremonial role within the club and gets in some proper business brains to make the tough decisions.
 

Top and Vichai are very different. One was a superb leader - our best ever chairman. Made mistakes. Found solutions. Built us for the better. The other shouldn’t be anywhere near Oadby Town let alone us. 

[Gamble92]

Since the update on Football Manager, Top wants to sell up within a year and we get taken over around 2026 👀

[Phenom]

22 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Since the update on Football Manager, Top wants to sell up within a year and we get taken over around 2026 👀

It’s been pointing that way for a while…

 

He has to be praying we stay up

[l444ry]

On 10/04/2023 at 15:04, StanSP said:

We just need Top and whoever is at the helm to learn from this, and do so with ridiculous speed.

 

I'd rather that happened and we get back some credibility and positive reputation with positive rewards filtering down to the club like previous. I'm sure Vichai was never mistake-free but I'm also adamantly sure he would have learnt from them like any businessman does. Top just needs to find his father's vigour and ruthlessness. A start to finding that would probably be replacing several people just underneath him that make footballing decisions. It's started with Rodgers, and now perhaps changes need to be made in the levels between Rodgers and Top.

 

I don't think it's the answer to just get rid of Top. I'm not in denial of the errors in judgment they (he and KP) have made in the past 12-18 months, but I think they need to be given a chance to learn and perhaps get us back on track.

Inclined to agree with this. There comes a point in Business where you don't buy a dog and then bark for it. Think he's been badly let down but, in contradiction, can't help but worry a little that he was prepared to oversee a three and a half year contract for Jesse Marsch. That would have been the cherry on the top of this season's cake! 

[Dan LCFC]

12 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

Since the update on Football Manager, Top wants to sell up within a year and we get taken over around 2026 👀

... the new owner is greeted onto the pitch before our top of the table clash with Rochdale!

[blue army 1988]

On 16/04/2023 at 00:07, Mickyblueeyes said:

I don’t think he has a plan for what he wants to do on his Sunday off. If he has to be involved next year, regardless of league, I hope he is kept away from planning anything on the football side. Maybe he can organise the catering or something. 
 

He’s a serious issue within the football club and the stories coming out show that not only did he enable this drastic decline, he prolonged it. I’m hoping he accepts some home truths and takes up a ceremonial role within the club and gets in some proper business brains to make the tough decisions.
 

Top and Vichai are very different. One was a superb leader - our best ever chairman. Made mistakes. Found solutions. Built us for the better. The other shouldn’t be anywhere near Oadby Town let alone us. 

I don't agree with this view to be honest.

I think people have very short memories and forget when Vichai first took over as owner all them years back, he made so many and very costly errors.

Hiring Sven, signing of certain players, the sacking and unsacking of Pearson just to name a few.

 

You have to give Top time. Ive the signing of Dean Smith, Shakey and Terry keep us up everyone will be saying it was a great appointment by Top.

 

There's no excuse to why Rogers was allowed to keep his job for so long and an even bigger sin of having no back up plan. Ive heard many rumours about it from him winning the FA Cup and Top was extremely greatful for Vichais dream he wanted to keep him on, to Susan Whelan pulling the strings behined the scenes so he didn't get the sack as they were very good friends. Like I say, all rumours.

 

What we need to do now is hope, as his father did, he learns from that mistake and now we need to focus on staying up. Only time will tell but as they are buisness men, love football and love Leicester I think it will hurt Top if we go down. Not just financially but emotionally too. There are alot of bad owners in the Premier League so I for one am happy we have Top.

[Tom12345]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/europe-transfers-wages-cutbacks--8368087.amp

[cityfanlee23]

On 10/04/2023 at 15:21, StanSP said:

I agree.

 

I think Rudkin's time has been served. How long has he been here as DoF? 

To be honest, I don't know enough about what Whelan does so I can't really comment that strongly on whether she should go/stay.  Whoever else is advising Top on footballing/matchday-based decisions needs to probably go as well.

I think this is a big issue also, we don’t know what half of the board are actually responsible for so it’s hard to keep them honest and held to account. 

[cityfanlee23]

The thing is with Top and Vichai, we really have no idea what kind of businessman Vichai was, whether he was the type to be 100% hands on with everything or if he just oversaw key aspects and allowed his people to handle the bulk of the day to day. 
 

Top took over a VERY large business that is international and spanning multiple industries, a few years later we have a global pandemic, I think it’s hard to judge someone when having to deal with that sort of monumental pressure, if for example Vichai was a hands on type, it could easily be the case that Top is not, and he’s effectively taken over something so big and complex it doesn’t really work in the same way he does, and this sort of thing takes time to adjust to or change to find a style of business that suits him. 
 

For this I’m happy to give Top time as we are finally starting to get back to some sort of normality apart from the obvious war and supply chain issues this has caused. 
 

Leicester city took a back seat and it very may well cost us, and that would be largely unforgivable, but I think given the size of business empire he’s taken over during such uncertain times in the last few years it’s impossible to be black and white and say he’s not got the capacity to own a football club. 

[Babylon]

On 09/04/2023 at 14:44, Finnaldo said:

People won’t want to hear it and I’ll get pelters for it so I’ll leave it here and pop off: 

 

The whole ownership has been a big sportswashing exercise since they bought from Mandaric, and it’s been incredible luck we got as far as we did before our downturn.
 

To preface: they never shied away from investment and putting money into the local community which I will give them credit for, they aren’t the Oystons or SISU and it would be revisionist to say so. That however is exactly what Sheikh Mansour has done with Man City or the Saudis have started in Newcastle. Granted they are nowhere near as corrupt and frankly backwards of either of those families, the extremely dodgy links to the Thai royal family and issues of corruption and repression of opposition with that regime sticks. 
 

On the football side, let’s take an honest view at it, with the facts or more likely theories of every action at the time it happened: 

 

2010: The Thais buy the club from Mandaric, and a hortly before this Pearson had been sacked the first time and replaced with Paolo Sousa. The nature of the sacking was never actually revealed but the two likely explanations were that either Mandaric thought this would make Leicester a more attractive proposition than Pearson, the other rumour was that it was a direct request from the Thais as part of the agreement to buy the club. 
 

October 2010: Sousa is sacked and replaced Sven. On the face of it, with the sacking of a foreign manager with a history of success to replace with another foreign manager with a larger (but also more distant) history of success this would lend credence to the suggestion that perhaps it was the Thais who ordered Pearson’s initial sacking for a more ‘appealing’ manager. Massive sums of money are spent to achieve promotion. 
 

November 2011: following a midtable finish and an average start, Sven is sacked and replaced by Pearson. This is rightfully considered one of the Thais’ best decisions within the club, and with the eventual success of the move would begin a period in which the ownership were seen as shrewd and patient in their running of the club, rewarding managers with time should results not go their way. They would also grant Pearson full control of the playing side of the club, introducing new scouting measures under Steve Walsh and a focus on sports science and recovery. Whilst these moves were correct, it has to be asked whether it was indeed a true understanding of what made Pearson successful, or simply going back to what they knew worked before their purchase of the club, as Pearson’s 5th place finish in 2009/10 had not been replicated since. 
 

July 2015: Following the Thailand scandal, Pearson is sacked and the replacement is… Claudio Ranieri? With the benefit of hindsight this move is lauded as genius, but of course anyone who was a supporter at the time was scratching their head. The ownership has reverted to type: a foreign manager with a history of success. However this one seemed in decline following a poor run of postings, being sacked by Greece following defeat to the Faroe Islands. Of course now we know that this proved an inspired choice, and with a perfect storm the rest proved history. However, my argument is this: with a managerial appointment history which reads as following: 

 

-Foreign manager of recent success

 

-Foreign manager of somewhat recent success, seemingly in decline

 

-The manager sacked on their purchase of the club, who had outperformed their appointments up to that point

 

-Foreign manager of distancing success seemingly in decline

 

Does this read as an ownership whose finger was on the pulse, with a shortlist of up and coming managers, proactively updated should a change be required? Or an ownership lurching from manager to manager on a simplified, seemingly uninformed motif and lucked upon a 5,000/1 jackpot?
 

I won’t continue for every manager, but you can clearly identify Shakespeare as ‘part of the old Pearson set-up that worked’ (similar to Pearson’s reappointment) and  Puel, again, as a foreign manager whose success once upon a time was lauded, but had become somewhat stale. 
 

Rodger’s appointment was somewhat in opposition to previous appointments, and marked a decision seemingly to build on successes from the 2015/16 campaign and the Champion’s League Quarter Final that followed. Whilst we showed progress initially, this was quickly scuppered when two seasons, back-to-back, top four finishes had been thrown away from positions that required midtable form to achieve. Signs of Brendan’s previous reign at Liverpool begun to show, and many would suggest he should have gone at least 18 months ago. However this was the ownership’s biggest project since Pearson’s second run, and the appointment of his former Liverpool colleague Lee Congerton, as well as sacking of physio Dave Rennie, proved this the case. However both these moves proved disastrous following poor transfer dealings and piling injury lists. Still, Pearson-esque leniency was awarded, up until the situation we now find ourselves in. 
 

Furthermore, the board seemingly remains near untouched since the Championship days, and all financial strategy was put into Champion’s League football which was failed. Continued employment of the likes of Jon Rudkin following embarrassing incidents like the signing of Adrien Silva, suggests an almost complete reliance on these figures making them near unsackable. 
 

With all that in mind I’m convinced that an almighty turn of luck in Ranieri has turned what was ownership of subpar to downright poor strategising and understanding of football and wider context within the game, albeit with generous investment and understanding of financial sensibilities with Vichai, into an entity that is now straight up worshipped by a sizeable portion of Leicester supporters, which has only gotten worse since the tragic death of Vichai. Either way without a complete change in character, I’m extremely worried about our future, future parachute payments tied up against loans with seemingly no culpability, no sense of foresight and a supporter base happy to let it happen in front of them. 

Whilst I agree and I've said exactly the same over time regarding planning for managers etc. I think there is a tendency here to ignore the good stuff, much of which was learnt from Pearson granted. But they embraced the buying young talent policy, to then sell and reinvest amongst many other things. 

 

I think in a way they were victims of their own success, Ranieri won the league, Rodgers won the FA cup and got two top 5 finishes. I think they felt obligated to give them more say, ultimately it's been an issue every time. Straying from the setup of, this is our team and what we do and as the manager you work within it. 

 

I thought they had learnt the planning lessons with Rodgers, ultimately it went downhill, but I can't fault the planning, thought process and the first few years there. Rudkin has to be a big issue, way too many cock up as he learns on the job and they just keep happening. 

 

You don't get two teams promoted to their top leagues, win the premier league, FA Cup, two top 5 finishes etc just on luck. There is more to it, they haven’t been perfect but results had been the proof in the pudding. 

Edited 19 April 2023 by Babylon

[Finnaldo]

On 19/04/2023 at 18:51, Babylon said:

Whilst I agree and I've said exactly the same over time regarding planning for managers etc. I think there is a tendency here to ignore the good stuff, much of which was learnt from Pearson granted. But they embraced the buying young talent policy, to then sell and reinvest amongst many other things. 

 

I think in a way they were victims of their own success, Ranieri won the league, Rodgers won the FA cup and got two top 5 finishes. I think they felt obligated to give them more say, ultimately it's been an issue every time. Straying from the setup of, this is our team and what we do and as the manager you work within it. 

 

I thought they had learnt the planning lessons with Rodgers, ultimately it went downhill, but I can't fault the planning, thought process and the first few years there. Rudkin has to be a big issue, way too many cock up as he learns on the job and they just keep happening. 

 

You don't get two teams promoted to their top leagues, win the premier league, FA Cup, two top 5 finishes etc just on luck. There is more to it, they haven’t been perfect but results had been the proof in the pudding. 

I respect that a lot more than the previous response I got! Mine is more of a cynical view, and it perhaps cast them as worse owners than they are. They clearly have the right intent, and correct decisions were ultimately made (we wouldn’t have got as far as we did otherwise), and you’d put them, ultimately in the upper percentile of owners. It’s more a response to the idea that they’ve never set a foot wrong up until the last year; there’s always been weaknesses there, they’ve just more often than not been completely over-shone by success. 
 

Its the utter inability to accept the owners aren’t perfect by a lot of our supporters that gets me, a healthy level of criticism should be expected of anyone. Otherwise situations like the last 18 months occur.