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Wymsey

The Queen has passed away

By Wymsey, in General Chat

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gerblod

gerblod

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14 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Disgusting.

 

Sorry if I sound dumb on this, but have some the Irish got a history against the Royals (possibly to do with the IRA)?

The history of Anglo-Irish mutual aggression goes way back and is extremely complex. Cromwell's army committed massacres at Wexford and Drogheda - indicating that the Commonwealth was intent on suppressing the Irish very soon after it had 'liberated' the rest of the British Isles.

Then came the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, where the newly crowned Protestant (Dutch) King of England (and presumably Wales), William III, defeated the recently deposed Catholic King of England, James II.

This set the scene for several hundred years of bitter Catholic-Protestant antipathy. The IRA and UDA were just a modern manifestation of this.

Parliament let over a million Irish starve during the potato famine in 1840. Another million or so fled to the USA to try to escape starvation.

The southern/catholic Irish rebelled against British rule in 1916. This led to the deployment of the infamous Black and Tans, largely mustered from unemployed ex WW1 soldiers - who proceeded to murder, loot and burn (and, no doubt, rape) their way through the three southern provinces.

There are plenty of places which don't have pleasant memories of the British. That the Queen, as representative of Great Britain, should attract negative reactions on her death, isn't that surprising. Of course, this doesn't reflect on her qualities as an beloved individual.

 

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foxes1988

foxes1988

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Posted
8 hours ago, ozleicester said:

If you ever get the chance, i highly recommend doing the tour in Derry. NI

Changed my life, and vital information for every person of English descent.

Forgive my ignorance, but is it particularly aimed at English or should that be British?

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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Posted
40 minutes ago, foxes1988 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but is it particularly aimed at English or should that be British?

Well... the Northern Irish who were massacred, were, i assume (but i stand to be corrected) considered "british" so I'm not sure.

 

As an Englishman it was incredibly important for me and i can only assume that, however someone defines themself it might be the same for them.
 

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Sampson

Sampson

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3 hours ago, gerblod said:

The history of Anglo-Irish mutual aggression goes way back and is extremely complex. Cromwell's army committed massacres at Wexford and Drogheda - indicating that the Commonwealth was intent on suppressing the Irish very soon after it had 'liberated' the rest of the British Isles.

Then came the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, where the newly crowned Protestant (Dutch) King of England (and presumably Wales), William III, defeated the recently deposed Catholic King of England, James II.

This set the scene for several hundred years of bitter Catholic-Protestant antipathy. The IRA and UDA were just a modern manifestation of this.

Parliament let over a million Irish starve during the potato famine in 1840. Another million or so fled to the USA to try to escape starvation.

The southern/catholic Irish rebelled against British rule in 1916. This led to the deployment of the infamous Black and Tans, largely mustered from unemployed ex WW1 soldiers - who proceeded to murder, loot and burn (and, no doubt, rape) their way through the three southern provinces.

There are plenty of places which don't have pleasant memories of the British. That the Queen, as representative of Great Britain, should attract negative reactions on her death, isn't that surprising. Of course, this doesn't reflect on her qualities as an beloved individual.

 

Also worth adding that before The Act of Union between Great Britain & Ireland in 1801 when The United Kingdom was originally formed, Ireland was essentially a colony of Great Britain akin to the US, India or Australia in the past. And many English and Scottish people who took and owned the Irish people’s land, settled in the North of the country, which is why Northern Ireland became the British contingent, as it was English and Scottish landowners vs Irish workers there.

 

The complexity of the issue is not far off that of Australians or Americans of British descent vs Native Americans or Aboriginal people in a way, in terms of how much should modern people be punished for what people of their same nationality did hundreds of years ago, even if they’re not direct descendents. Even more complicated nowadays since globalisation has meant that land isn’t even all owned by people with native descents anymore.

 

Not saying there’s a right or wrong answer, as I have no idea what the answer is myself, just that it’s a complicated issue and as an English or Scottish person, I think it’s important to learn why many on the island of Ireland feel the way they do.

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foxes1988

foxes1988

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55 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Well... the Northern Irish who were massacred, were, i assume (but i stand to be corrected) considered "british" so I'm not sure.

 

As an Englishman it was incredibly important for me and i can only assume that, however someone defines themself it might be the same for them.
 

I guess what I really mean is should that be English/Scottish

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Wolfox

Wolfox

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1 hour ago, Daggers said:

FcYycV4XEAAukLs.jpeg

I get the point the journalist is trying to make regarding ‘performance grief’

 

Mathew Pariss made a similar observation far more eloquently after the Manchester concert bombing…

 

I was just left with the impression that the author doesn’t like people very much… it’s a little cynical

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Sampson

Sampson

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13 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Im just not sure what you are trying to say?

I think he was saying that the landowners and landlords in Northern Ireland were largely English and Scottish rather than British as a whole (I.e. not necessarily Welsh).

 

I’m not really sure of the relationship between Wales and Ireland/Northern Ireland historically either way to be honest, I just know that people tend to say it was English and Scottish people  who went over and settled as landowners and landlords in Northern Ireland

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Foxdiamond

Foxdiamond

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1 hour ago, Sampson said:

I think he was saying that the landowners and landlords in Northern Ireland were largely English and Scottish rather than British as a whole (I.e. not necessarily Welsh).

 

I’m not really sure of the relationship between Wales and Ireland/Northern Ireland historically either way to be honest, I just know that people tend to say it was English and Scottish people  who went over and settled as landowners and landlords in Northern Ireland

I think we should add that a lot of this was going on before the UK was a democracy in the modern sense. By this I mean that for most of our ancestors in UK the ordinary man and woman had no say in what was going on.

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Sampson

Sampson

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3 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I think we should add that a lot of this was going on before the UK was a democracy in the modern sense. By this I mean that for most of our ancestors in UK the ordinary man and woman had no say in what was going on.

Sure, which is why a lot of the animosity  goes onto the royal family who did have the ultimate say.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

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Posted
2 hours ago, Wolfox said:

I get the point the journalist is trying to make regarding ‘performance grief’

 

Mathew Pariss made a similar observation far more eloquently after the Manchester concert bombing…

 

I was just left with the impression that the author doesn’t like people very much… it’s a little cynical

New York Times? They seem to hate the UK these days for some reason.

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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1 hour ago, Foxdiamond said:

I think we should add that a lot of this was going on before the UK was a democracy in the modern sense. By this I mean that for most of our ancestors in UK the ordinary man and woman had no say in what was going on.

hmmm the 1950s-1990s was still a time of "british" murder and torture in Northern Ireland... pretty sure the ordinary people (many of whom are still wielding power today) couldve done something if they wanted to.

 

but im going to walk away here, i promised myself i would avoid commenting in this thread 

***fail***

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